Saturday nite head pics

[-JC-1]

Blowing oil out my exhaust port this afternoon, so tore it down this evening-
Front head was the worst


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[-JC-1]

Top of pistons

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[barny7655]

what do the back of the valves look like,the ports, and the valve seals,guides, also inlet manifold, were both exausts flooded with oil,seems some thing has gone wrong with both cylinders, was a recent oil level check done,whta gaskets used ,was a O ring used on them ,how many miles,has it only happened  if so, what was done prior, to your last ride, a few things to get back to us on , we may pin point the most likely cause , cheers Barny

[Rags722]

Any chance you have a K&N airfilter that you just cleaned and re-oiled?  I honestly don't see how that much oil suddenly came through both cylinders unless your air filter was sopping wet with oil... or you filled up using a 5 gallon jug of 2 cycle oil & gas mix.

[-JC-1]

This is my S&S 124 motor, last week I took out the electric releases and replaced them with S&S plugs- did a leakdown test and found I had air coming out of the top of the exhaust valve, quite a bit on the front and a lesser amount on the rear.
I buttoned it back up and did a compression test and got 185 front and rear,
It fired right up several times this week, but I did not have a chance to ride until today, put about 50 miles on it, and this was the result.
I'm going to try and get some pics of the exhaust valves

[wurk_truk]

I'm going to watch this thread and learn a bit.  Dont you have to pull the rocker boxes to get at the ACRs?  Maybe you fubared the reinstall?  When you pulled it apart (for the tear down)... how much oil was in the rocker boxes?  Could you possibly have had the head to rocker box gasket flipped?  That would tend to make the breather blow pressure where it could... like a weak set of exhaust seals?  Baisley heads... how long ago?  Did you notice this problem last year?  This much oil in both cylinders all at once makes me wonder, like I'm SURE you are.   The leakdown tells the story well enough, but I am wondering the WHY this much oil right now is all.

[barny7655]

did you alter your tappet adjustment and how did you do it , seems your valves are stuck open , why? is it carbon, or over adjusted pushrods, your not saying as to when this happened , or has it happened over a period of time , whats oil consumption like ? the more details the more we can offer you to solve what will be a simple problem ,cheers Barny

[-JC-1]

Fubar was my first thought as well, there was not alot of oil in the rockers, I think the gasket can only go on one way, I will double check that in the am, baisley ported the heads about 20,000 miles ago, ran fine until recently when I started to have acr issues, did 4 1/2 turns on the pushrods as I normally do, never has used oil.
Thanks,

[TweekmyTwin]

 When you remove the rocker boxes..Did you absorb the oil out of the thread holes..breather, rocker base and rocker support bolt holes in the heads? If you had oil in them and started tghting them.. you just create hydraulic pressure. This will cause the head casting to crack and cause oil to enter the chamber.
Let us know what you find and hope its not what  I mention above.
Jim

[Rags722]

Fubar was my first thought as well, there was not alot of oil in the rockers, I think the gasket can only go on one way, I will double check that in the am, baisley ported the heads about 20,000 miles ago, ran fine until recently when I started to have acr issues, did 4 1/2 turns on the pushrods as I normally do, never has used oil.
Thanks,

Not sure that is right........ 
"Place S&S lower rocker housing gasket on cylinder
head. Gasket must cover breather channel in cylinder
head.
NOTE - It is possible to install gasket incorrectly. Before
proceeding, confirm that gasket is correctly placed and
covers breather channel in cylinder head. See Pictures 4A
and 4B."
http://www.nightrider.com/biketech/download/ssmanuals/tc_rocker_box.pdf

Sure hope that is all that's wrong.. Excuse me in adavance if the info is worthless.

[rbabos]

Hmm: Making a connection here to the new installed plugs and direct oil flow from the rockers to the exhaust port, since there were no issues prior to this. What's the sealing method on these plugs? Could be they leak when the head gets hot.
Ron

[-JC-1]

here are a couple of pics of the gasket and head-
the plug seals with a crush washer just like the release, I loctited it in, doesn't appear to be leaking
I did clean all oil out of the holes, and then used compressed air to blow them dry
no information is worthless to me, I'm just trying to learn
part of me is upset at this, because of the dollars that I think it's going to cost, but really I'm just chalking this up to paying for my education.
besides, it's kinda fun- as long as I don't keep making the same mistakes over again
i'm all ears
joe

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[rbabos]

here are a couple of pics of the gasket and head-
the plug seals with a crush washer just like the release, I loctited it in, doesn't appear to be leaking
I did clean all oil out of the holes, and then used compressed air to blow them dry
no information is worthless to me, I'm just trying to learn
part of me is upset at this, because of the dollars that I think it's going to cost, but really I'm just chalking this up to paying for my education.
besides, it's kinda fun- as long as I don't keep making the same mistakes over again
i'm all ears
joe

I don't know wtf I was thinking in my last post. There is no oil there to cause that problem. Seems to point to valve seals, but all of a sudden like that? Umbrella valves working ok, or whatever breather method that engine uses?
Ron

[-JC-1]

no umbrella valves, the front head breathes thru a hose attached to the manifold, and the rear head breathes to the air filter backing plate- it has an inline one way valve.
yea the seals are shot I'm sure, but I can't figure out why yet

[Admiral Akbar]

Maybe chromed stems and cast iron guides.. 

Just kidding..

Looks like the motor breathing system is dumping a bunch of oil into the intake..

IIRC they breathing system is a little weird on SnS motors..

Max

[rbabos]

no umbrella valves, the front head breathes thru a hose attached to the manifold, and the rear head breathes to the air filter backing plate- it has an inline one way valve.
yea the seals are shot I'm sure, but I can't figure out why yet

I'm sure you meant both have a one way valve? If the one way thing fails to operate all hell breaks loose in the way venting occurs, and how oil in the heads gets controlled. Usually a lot of carry over into the intake with violent in and out breating . Crankcase pressures can't stabilize to a gentle outflow. Seems like the problems is either this or valve seals or both. Valve seals , I would think would slowly increase leakage rather than all of a sudden, but still possible, I guess.
Ron

[RevFastEddy]

Big question for you??  How did you vent the head? To the ground? To the air cleaner or the 3/16" line to the intake manifold and a one way valve on the 3/8" one to the air cleaner?


You should be pulling a vacuum in the crank case or these will leak at the valve seals. They are low tension seals .

[-JC-1]

S&S heads do breathe differently, the front head has a 1/4 line to the manifold with no check valve, and the rear head has a 3/8 line to filter backing plate, with one way check valve. The check valve allows venting to air cleaner if necessary, the front vacuum line supplies vacuum to the crankcase.
This is the same setup that came with this motor when I bought it in 05, and have never had a problem until now.
I think I may have applied too much air pressure during a leakdown, and blew the valve seals?
The front and rear rockers are interchangeable, as well as the rocker gasket and orings, so I don't think I screwed those up   


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[Admiral Akbar]

I think I may have applied too much air pressure during a leakdown, and blew the valve seals?

Nope.. Unless you were pressurizing the crank case.. 

Max

[rbabos]

S&S heads do breathe differently, the front head has a 1/4 line to the manifold with no check valve, and the rear head has a 3/8 line to filter backing plate, with one way check valve. The check valve allows venting to air cleaner if necessary, the front vacuum line supplies vacuum to the crankcase.
This is the same setup that came with this motor when I bought it in 05, and have never had a problem until now.
I think I may have applied too much air pressure during a leakdown, and blew the valve seals?
The front and rear rockers are interchangeable, as well as the rocker gasket and orings, so I don't think I screwed those up   

Wow. I'm amazed that breather system works. In my world experience when either a single or multiple pistons go down the system should be one way valved. This allows case pressure to become neutral or slight vacume.  Can't argue with the fact it works, but in my world it's just wrong. 
Ron

[Admiral Akbar]

Sounds like an interesting setup.. Use the intake manifold to pull a vacuum on the motor but have a one way valve to keep from overcoming too much blowby. Sounds like you found out how the oil was getting into the combustion chamber.. Now you need figure out how to keep it out..

Max

[rbabos]

Sounds like an interesting setup.. Use the intake manifold to pull a vacuum on the motor but have a one way valve to keep from overcoming too much blowby. Sounds like you found out how the oil was getting into the combustion chamber.. Now you need figure out how to keep it out..

Max

Wondering if the rear checkvalve leaks and with intake vacume in play on the front head if it will suck oil out of the head and into the intake. Then it will go into both heads. Just a thought.
Then again this valve might be a pcv valve in which case it has a calibrated leak by design to produce just the right amount of flow to cause slight case vacume . If it stays open or leaks more than it should the higher than normal flow rate on the vacume side will suck oil into the intake. Seen it happen on car pcv systems before.
Ron

[Eleft36]

Is it possible to reverse the check valve?

Al