TTS Tuning Member 7Remmag's Bike

[wolf_59]

does the PE Enable mode need to be set differently than the base when vtuning

yes, in the tuning constants PE Mode set the value to 10,000 while Vtuning

[hrdtail78]

couple of questions
1.  do you need to remove old base map from the ecm when changing to a different one.

2. when adding a +4 gear in your camshaft estimator you add it where.

I'm going to try the DPC176-03 as lonewolf questioned,  as it might be easier for me to start from scratch again verses cutting and pasting.  I can do more of that stuff on my desktop, but this netbook is harder for me to get around in

1.  No, it is best to Get ECM Info, This just shows things are communicating.  Then Program ECM Cal.

2.  You do the math with published numbers of the cam.  There isn't a spot to do it anywhere else.

After you do the Estimator, I would recommend doing the IVO by idle.

[7remmag]

so the woods tw6 has an
intake open and close of 20 BTDC and 40 ATDC
exhaust open and close of 42 BTDC and 18 ATDC
240 EXHAUST AND INTAKE DURATION
.510 INTAKE AND EXHAUST LIFT

[7remmag]

why do some instructions say to set acceleration enrichment and decel enleanment to 0 and some set up instructions don't mention it and the same with adaptive knock retard.  Is all this suppose to be set to 0 or not.

[streeter1]

Just went through that myself. Doc's instructions indicate to set all to zero, AE, DE and adaptive knock. The TTS manual does not indicate this any where other than the flow chart saying to Zero the AE 

Good luck!!

[7remmag]

OK here's what I did
-changed calibration to DPC176-03-AO.MT8
-set ARF to 14.6
-closed loop bias Front and Rear to 720
-Accel enrichment to 0
-Adaptive knock retard to 0
-Decel enleanment no change
-Changed displacement to 96.8 per calculator
-cam selector to 3 on both open and close
-changed PE mode to 10000
It idled fairly rough at startup and fluttered around 1500 - 2000 until it was warmed up. 
Smelled rich and I about ran out of gas.
                       

[7remmag]

This is what everything looked like after a 20 minute run through a few hills on the highway

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[7remmag]

and here

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[wolf_59]

Looks good for the 1st one, Now that you have a Vtune under your belt it will get easier and you'll understand more about it with each run you make

[7remmag]

I'm a little confused as how to set the cam selector tool with a +4 gear and the high ratio rockers

[mayor]

you need to add 4 degree's to the rotation of the cam, so the stated cam numbers would be IO @ 24 BTDC and IC @ 36 ABDC.  The rockers do affect this a little, but since there's no way of knowing...don't worry about them.  So you now have stated cam timing events, now you use the estimater and determine were to set those settings based on just prior to open and just after close. 

[Steve Cole]

Make sure you set the cam up then run the Cam Data test and set it properly prior to spending the time doing Vtune data collection as any change you make to the Cam selection setup is going to change everything else, so it needs to be done first. The Graph is going to show you where your engine needs to be set. When we were developing this the variations we found were too much to be able to just calculate the numbers, so this is why the testing is needed to get it right.

[7remmag]

Thanks guys!  It sounds kinda complicated, but I'll see if I can get through it. 

Well maybe not so complicated I opened the next calibration that I will load in the ECM went to tools and used the cam estimator put in the numbers and transfered settings 3 and 3 into the calibration.
thanks

I had a question earlier
why do some instructions say to set acceleration enrichment and decel enleanment to 0 and some set up instructions don't mention it and the same with adaptive knock retard.  Is all this suppose to be set to 0 or not.

[mayor]

yes, set the AE and DE tables to zero.  The o2 sensors will not read when either of these tables are in active use mode. Turn the adaptive knock retard off as well, if you leave it one the VE's may not be accurate since the variable rate of timing advance will affect the o2 readings. 

[7remmag]

This is this mornings tune.  I hope 34 degrees won't effect the tune any. 
Any suggestions, ideas, concerns.  I did a cam analysis and cam up with 3 and 3, but wonder if it shouldn't be 2 and 3.
starts fine and idles better from base table.  here are some results.

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[mayor]

I did a cam analysis and cam up with 3 and 3, but wonder if it shouldn't be 2 and 3.

based on what you posted, it looks like 2 is the right answer anyway.  isn't there a slight change at 2? 

[7remmag]

yes there is a slight upward break at 2, but I wasn't sure if I should go with that or go to the bigger change at 3.
so you think I should go with 2 in IVO ?
what can a person do for the IVC leave it and hope it's right,  isn't dyno the only way to know for sure.
If I change the cam again doesn't that wipe out all the VE's again

[mayor]

1. yes there is a slight upward break at 2, but I wasn't sure if I should go with that or go to the bigger change at 3.
so you think I should go with 2 in IVO ?

2. what can a person do for the IVC leave it and hope it's right,  isn't dyno the only way to know for sure.

3.If I change the cam again doesn't that wipe out all the VE's again

this is as new to me as it is you, but here's my thoughts:

1. use the first break to determine where to set the IVO, that's what the manual says.  Your first break is 2

2.  yes, a dyno is the only way to check the IVC settings.  As Steve told me, better to be half right than both wrong (meaning use the IVO tools to determine the IVO setting and the estimator to determine the IVC)

3. yes, very likely they will change.  That is why you determine those settings in the beginning.... and your still early in the game yet, so no worries.  When you move onto changing the EGR tables the VE's will change to the left of the 60 kPa line anyway.

[7remmag]

third and last vtune of the day

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[mayor]

have you made any adjustments to EGR yet? 

[7remmag]

No I'm not sure what I need to do yet,  This is where I have a tough time making decisions
I changed the IVO to 2 also even though that break in the line was barely noticeable.

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[7remmag]

OK I see that it takes so much TPS to reach 60 kPa MAP, but I don't get the rational behind it or what to do about it.  It's just not very clear to me in the manual.

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[mayor]

I'll see if I can help, but I need better screen shots.  PM sent. 

[mayor]

OK, here's what I came up with:

step 1. run the EGR Effects Analyzer from the v-tune data recording:

this was off of your v-tune run 4.  I found that mine changed very little while I was adjusting my EGR tables.

step 2. use the EGR Effects chart to determine where the EGR values are potentually coming into play:

I drew a line on one side to show the relationship of the VE to the EGR Effects chart, and I drew a line around the pontenially affected cells on the other.  The EGR table will raise or lower the VE's to the left side of that line.  To raise the ve's, you increase the EGR value.  To lower the ve's, you decrease the EGR value.  The goal is nice smooth transitions in VE's in all four directions (up, down, right, left) with all your peaks on the right side of the EGR line.

Keep in mind the EGR table RPM settings do not match the RPM settings of the VE charts. Here's the EGR RPM tables:

Each rpm setting can affect the particular rpm listed and the boxes surrounding it, so keep that in mind when making adjustments. View each EGR adjustement as the center square in a tic tac toe board, any change you make to the center affects all the surrounding squares.  In some areas more than one box might be able to be used to make the adjustments needed.  Both cylinders will need to be adjusted individually, meaning the settings for one will not be transferable to the other (see the front and rear VE charts above).  Notice that there is one a region on the front chart that could use the EGR values lowered in a particular region (3.5-4.5k in this case), as opposed to the rear needing all the EGR values raised.

step 3. Determine how much change is needed for initial change:

Since there is only three RPM's that match up to the EGR table, I decided to use 2k rpm and 4k rpm as the examples.  The principals will be the same, but you will need to make some judgement calls as to the other cells since there may be some overlap in coverage areas when relating the EGR tables to the VE charts. 

For each cell along the EGR line, determine how much needs to be raised or lowered to blend the VE's to be more equal on either side of the EGR line.

click on a particular cell just to the left of the EGR Effects line, in this example we will look at 2k @ 7% TPS:


determine what percentage of increase or decrease that the cell would need to change in order to match up with the cell to the right of the line:

use the increment/decrement function to determine what the percent of change needed is. 

This is new technology so there are no proven trends to follow when making adjustments.  Based on what has been posted so far regarding EGR adjustments, doubling the rate of change in VE's needed is a good starting point.  From this point on, you will need to run a v-tune recording specifically collecting data to the left of the EGR line to at least the very right of the line for each change you make on the EGR table. You will then need to develop a new calibration off of the recording and the calibration used during the recording (basic v-tune methods), and then evaluate the EGR settings from the VE charts that are derived from the V-tune software. The process will be adjust, record v-tune data, evaluate, repeat as needed until you are satisfied with the results (+/- 5% range may be suitable).

The current EGR setting on the rear cylinder at 2k is this:


The percent of change needed at the 2k mark based on the adjusting the VE's on the Rear VE chart was 9%, so we will double that and apply that to the EGR table:


The current VE's at 4K:


The rate of change needed on the left side of the EGR effects line:


The current EGR setting on the rear cylinder at 4k is this:


The percent of change needed at the 4k mark based on the adjusting the VE's on the Rear VE chart was 6%, so we will double that and apply that to the EGR table:


Hopefully this will help you get started.  The process becomes more clear as you make adjustments and gather data.  Remember, adjust, record, evaluate, repeat as needed.  There's no skipping steps..

Step 4. adjust, record changes (v-tune), evaluate, repeat as needed. 

good luck,
mayor

[wolf_59]

Good info Mayor I had it all backwards in my head