2004 softail standard, 95 inch S&S 570G cams Dtt Ignition

[ΚĜΗΟŜΤ]

I finally had my bike dyno'd.
Final Specs.

5 th gear run.         88.2 HP   103.9 torque

2004 softail standard
95 inch B motor.
S&S 570 G cams
CV 40 carb, 48 pilot 225 main, sporster needle. slide radiused and polished
V&H Big Shots staggered, cross over cut and welded, 2 into 2 now, no cross over.
DTT ignition Initial  4 Slope 9
Heads ported
Intake ported and matched
S&S travel limiters
Adjustable push rods
Forged HD pistons 8 cc dome
.030" head gasket
.033 squish
~10.24 : 1 comp.
Standard NGK plugs for 2004 softail.


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[ΚĜΗΟŜΤ]

Here is just the final that does not include the base line

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[Admiral Akbar]

DTT ignition Initial  4 Slope 9

Seems like a lot of timing for that build. at 3K you'll have 35 deg WOT.

Max

[ΚĜΗΟŜΤ]

I agree but that is what it liked???

Actually I was a bit dissapointed on the base line run it was very low in my opinion.

I am wondering if the CV 40 is holding the build back and the large main jet change (200 to 225) and the final timing settings could be reduced.

I am not sure...

The guy who did the session is a very good tuner.
Now we did not go into the carb and do any needle changes. Kinda a sign of the times with almost everything now EFI.. He had no needles to change. What I had I forgot my spec sheet showing what they were by part number.

[05FLHTC]

That Tq dip lines right up with that rich AFR dip. I would try something to straighten out the AFR. Are you sure the DTT dials are not locked out?  That initial & slop don't jive IMO & IME

What is the CCP?

[ΚĜΗΟŜΤ]

After speaking with a friend of mine who does some high power buidling for drag use he spoke to the timing and said due to the extreme humidity yesterday (first warm humid day of '11 for massachusetts) it would have been rather difficult to tune. When my session began it got very humid at least 90% or more

He also spoke to the rich and torque curves following each other.

At this point, I will this afternoon reset the DTT to 3 and 6 first.
I will also drop the main jet down a bit maybe to a 210.
This should lean it up a bit without to much loss in power.

I will not bring it back to this dyno tuner for any additional testing. NOT SATISFIED!!!
After thinking about it last night this dyno guy should have know
1. the weather was not good for tuning
2. the final timing (as MAX suggested and my friend also agreed) of 35 degrees it too much and probably a result of the humitity.
3. not actually suggesting what may be the appropriate direction to go to get this optimized. IE: a better carb, custom map or any other suggestions.

[aharp]

Not his fault it was humid

[Hillside Motorcycle]

Me thinks, that there should be more hp to that set-up.
Torque looks good.
Scott

[Admiral Akbar]

The fact that the AFR is all over the place, kind of make me wonder what is going on with the pipes.. What did the other cylinder look like?

The 225 main tell me that the end of the slide needle is probably too large and it's setting the WOT AFR,,

I'd agree with Scott.. More HP in there.. Probably take a pipe change tho.

Max

[ΚĜΗΟŜΤ]

Thanks Max

I am using these pipes.  "V&H Big Shots staggered, cross over cut and welded, 2 into 2 now, no cross over."

I do understand that these are not good pipes for high power.

No sniffer in the rear exhaust only the front.

The slide is wide open by 3200ish rpms maybe sooner, dont quote me on this but we did check this during the session.

That bieng said, when we started as can bee seen by the base line run the first thing done was to increase the main jet only.
started at a 200 then increased (he drilled some spares I had, he had none) 210 (.082") then to .089.

I am thinking becuase he drilled it out at .089 it very well could be closer to .090 which is getting equal to 230 jet.  even if it is a clean hole it is a bit larger than a 225 and smaller than a 230. This concerns me quite abit!! I feel this is way too rich no matter what, Your thoughts?

Because he had no jets and chosse to drill ,I guess you could say he was making large jumps and this could be the rich issue after max power as you describe.

What is your opinion on using the CV 40? think it may be too restrictive for this build? I do not have anything else to try at this time.

[05FLHTC]

I'm not Max but I prefer the Mik carbs for tuning ease & throttle response.  The CV carbs are fine but I have had better experiences getting the AFR line to lay down flat with a Mik.  Even my S&S G is way flatter then what you have posted. Have ya checked for leaks?

[ΚĜΗΟŜΤ]

No leaks

Motor has 2200 miles since build. Never had a hiccup and idles very well. Infact he liked the idle A/F which was at 13.2 as is.

48 pilot a/f screw ~ 2 turns out.

[05FLHTC]

Must be the exhaust...looks alot like trying to tune for straights to me 

Are there any baffles?

[ΚĜΗΟŜΤ]

Standard V&H baffels..........in

[05FLHTC]

Yea an experienced dyno operator should have sent you down the road with 90% humidity in the dyno room. That really sucks.

[ΚĜΗΟŜΤ]

UPDATE,

With the help of 05FLHTC and installing the dtt software. We determined there was a canned map in the (used) module and a software toggle was selected that did not allow the slope function (dial) to work.

So all that was done at the dyno session was to over jet the carb, The intial was adjsuted but only added a couple of degrees advance to the table cells in the map but did not shift that timing change to a different rpm range.

I thank greg again for helping thru this!!!!

Now to see if the "dyno Guy" will work with me to redo this tune session.................

[05FLHTC]

Glad I could help hope ya can get err back on the dyno now & flatten the AFR/ Tq dip out some...

Best of luck with it & enjoy

[Admiral Akbar]

I am thinking becuase he drilled it out at .089 it very well could be closer to .090 which is getting equal to 230 jet.  even if it is a clean hole it is a bit larger than a 225 and smaller than a 230. This concerns me quite abit!! I feel this is way too rich no matter what, Your thoughts?

Does sound big..

Glad I could help hope ya can get err back on the dyno now & flatten the AFR/ Tq dip out some...

Best of luck with it & enjoy

What is interesting is the amount of HP change for the jet sizes and 1 deg on the DTT.. Not sure how flat the AFR can get.. Could try raising the needle and dropping the main but usually by 3500 then needle ain't doing nothin',..  Playing with the slope now that the DTT  dial works might help some.. What did the loaded map look like?

I suspect that you'll be changing pipes if you want to flatten that curve.

Max

[05FLHTC]

Map didn't look that bad, a tad conservative in the mid range, so yea  different exhaust or maybe some carb tweaking or both. 

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[ΚĜΗΟŜΤ]

As I am no expert on this and it is new to me, I would be willing to summize that the trail/down off of HP and torque after 4500 rpms appears to me to be a result of not being able to adjust the slope timing. It may also account for the rich condition that follows the same profile.

I am thinking that jetting back to a 210 and starting there may help flatten the a/f a bit and by having the ability to adjust the slope may give a somewhat better result. I would think I should see a relativly reasonable increase in both hP and torque. I understand this is not going to be a massive increase but something more in line with expectations.

Now that i have the software installed I can also do some self tuning when I understand it a bit more in the future.

I noticed last night after i went back to the DTT original map and took it out for a ride the bike appeared to have more power longer up the rpm range than before..

Well I will go back to the dyno shop and see if I can work out a second session with the guy for a reasonable cost as He really did nothing but make a bunch of runs and only rejetted the carb and gave me the results in two copies...lol. He should have connected his laptop to my ignition and found this himself as I would think he would have gone a bit further than just turning a couple of dials. Especially since adjusting the slope gave him NO change in result but he sort of kept this to himself and did not want to or feel like looking into why............ Just my opinion of his work..........

[05FLHTC]

Dam shame "most" of the tuners are spoiled rotten with keyboards & programs today. 

I would drop the main back down & perform the WOT test to determine what it needs. After that I would try a few different needles until you run into a slight lean surge & then go back or shim it some.

The idle circuit is easy enough to dial in.

Then play with the knobs some & get the timing closer to what ya think it should be...listen & watch the oil or head temps.

Then I would take it in for a dyno run to confirm the AFR & maybe try a few more timing adjustments.

Good luck & let us know how it turns out.

[ΚĜΗΟŜΤ]

Spoke with the dyno guy and explained the issue with the DTT non adjustable slope, Showed him the documentaions from DTT that showed that a custom map uploaded deactivates the slope dial.

He said next tune is on him in order to get it right!!

So I will be watchin the forcast and hopefully choose a better/dryer day........

[05FLHTC]

Great news! 

I'll be a watching for an updated sheet