Supertrapp?

[Fxstchewy]

changed out my Bassani road-rage for a NIB Supertrapp Supermeg that I picked up on ebay for $117, I have a FXST with Hippo build, i have the closed endcap with 20 discs, the thing is not much quieter than the roadrage and i have noticed that the snappy throttle response i had with the R&R is not as good, any suggestions as what discs i should try? Thanks Chewy

[Jeffd]

order an open end cap from Summit Racing and go with 10-12 discs.

[Fxstchewy]

Kinda what i was thinking. thanks.

[FLTRI]

changed out my Bassani road-rage for a NIB Supertrapp Supermeg that I picked up on ebay for $117, I have a FXST with Hippo build, i have the closed endcap with 20 discs, the thing is not much quieter than the roadrage and i have noticed that the snappy throttle response i had with the R&R is not as good, any suggestions as what discs i should try? Thanks Chewy

Interestion observation. Most of the customers I've talked with after a change like that say the exact opposite: Better snap down low in the RPMs and much quieter.
What I can say is the power down low has shown improvement on the dyno over most open type 2into1s.

Maybe there is something wrong with it considering you bought it NIB for about 25% of normal price or almost 75% discount.
Look here:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/SuperTrapp-2-INTO-1-SUPERMEG-SYSTEMS-90-00-Softail_W0QQitemZ380091924622QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotorcycles_Parts_Accessories?_trksid=p4506.m20.l1116

[blk-betty]

Chewy

I've got an open end cap if you want it.  Let me know and I'll drop it in the mail.

[FLTRI]

PS - An open end cap will make more noise and help on top a bit, however it will not help, even a little, down low, but might sound like it does.

[blk-betty]

PPS,  That's why I'm offering it to him for free, I got no use for it  .

[Coyote]

I guess I'm missing something here. I just purchased this pipe to put on my ultra. I got a bunch of discs, a completely closed end disc, and a heavier ring for the end (I guess). What's this referral to open vs closed end cap referring to? Thanks. Pictures would be a great help to me on this... just sayin! 

[Fxstchewy]

chewy I'll take the RR off your hands fer $117 

I'm going to hang on to it until i get the Supertrapp sorted out, the RR is my favorite exhaust for my FXST, i was just trying to quite it down some, maybe a little tuning to do.

FLTRI, the guy had the pipe listed as one that was for a FXD but the part# was for a FXST, i checked with ST about it, it fits perfect no issues, I think the description/part# issue played into my hand.  Chewy

[FLTRI]

I guess I'm missing something here. I just purchased this pipe to put on my ultra. I got a bunch of discs, a completely closed end disc =   Closed end cap   (1 with a hole in the end cap is an open end cap), and a heavier ring for the end (I guess).  Go to the Supertrapp website and identify the part, then we can comment. What's this referral to open vs closed end cap referring to? Thanks. Pictures would be a great help to me on this... just sayin! 

[Airglider]

It's possible the screws holding the disks in were overtorqued crushing the spacing needed for correct operation. I am running 18 disks with a closed end on mine with good low and midrange,

AG

[skyhook]

I'm confused about this also...I had a roadrage on a bagger and it was very loud....maybe you have the quiet baffle?...I can't imagine any supertrapp setup being almost as loud as roadrage

[Fxstchewy]

Let me clarify, at idle to me it sounds about the same, but on the highway it is more mellow but i mainly ride my FLHX and i get more wind noise on the FXST so that could be messing with my hearing. looks like it has the 2.5" core and full packing.  Chewy

[blk-betty]

Just for some possible insight.

I'm running Supertrapp Supermegg on my 06 88" carb FLHX with SE filter/backing plate and carb rejet.

Wife's bike is an 06 88" carb Softail Deluxe with a SE Tunable (the EXACT same as Supermegg but with SE badgeing) pipe, SE filter/backing plate and carb rejet.

Both carbs are jetted similar, mine has the 88 sporty needle, hers has 2 #4 brass washers under the stock needle - both with 46 slow and 2.5 turns out of a/f screw.

Both pipes with 18 discs and closed end cap.

Without a question, the softail Supermegg is louder than the bagger Supermegg, at idle and while running at all engine speeds.  I assume it has something to do with the fact that the bagger muffler is much longer than the softail muffler.  And it is not a perceived difference based on where the muffler ends in relation to my ears, the softail pipe is louder - mind you it's not "loud" but is louder than the bagger pipe.

This may be why Chewy didn't notice a considerable difference in noise between the Trapp and the RR as his test mule is a Softail.

[Fxstchewy]

Thanks for that, makes sense, also, the roadrage is longer than the supertrapp, probably 4-6" difference in length.  Chewy.

[Deye76]

The exhaust note (sound) is closer to your ear on a softie, than on a bagger.

[FLTRI]

Ok, we got passed the noise level thing, but what about the lack throttle response?

"i have noticed that the snappy throttle response i had with the R&R is not as good"

[Deye76]

Ok, we got passed the noise level thing, but what about the lack throttle response?

"i have noticed that the snappy throttle response i had with the R&R is not as good"

Re-tune after pipes were changed? 

[14Frisco]

I guess I'm missing something here. I just purchased this pipe to put on my ultra. I got a bunch of discs, a completely closed end disc, and a heavier ring for the end (I guess). What's this referral to open vs closed end cap referring to? Thanks. Pictures would be a great help to me on this... just sayin! 

The heavier ring you get with the Supermegs is a "trim ring".  Here is an open end-cap:

[Jeffd]

Ok, we got passed the noise level thing, but what about the lack throttle response?

"i have noticed that the snappy throttle response i had with the R&R is not as good"

I have run every which way combo (from 8 discs to 20 discs) of open end cap and closed end cap and had afr's checked on dyno.  The AFR's have stayed about the same but I get a snappier throttle response with the open end cap. Ohiomotoxer who claims to have developed the system says that the open end cap acts like a closed end cap at low rpms and an open end cap at high rpms. It may go against convention but for what ever reason on my bike it has better throttle response all the way around with the open end cap.

[03deuce]

I guess I'm missing something here. I just purchased this pipe to put on my ultra. I got a bunch of discs, a completely closed end disc, and a heavier ring for the end (I guess). What's this referral to open vs closed end cap referring to?

Supertrapp website: open end cap

(http://www.supertrapp.com/product_sections/detail.asp?CatID=69&ItemID=405-3046)

[Sonny S.]

Closed cap and trim ring came with your pipe. Closed cap means just that...no hole.
Open cap as posted in above pic is optional. It too will work with the trim ring.

[Fxstchewy]

Ok, we got passed the noise level thing, but what about the lack throttle response?

"i have noticed that the snappy throttle response i had with the R&R is not as good"

The first thing I am going to try is LESS discs, I "think" from what i have read is that @ 20 discs you are at max flow and another thing that i noticed is the road-rage is a "stepped" pipe where the ST is not, so i believe i need to subtract discs and see if that helps with the throttle response. Chewy.

[Coyote]

Thanks for all the info. Hopefully I did not unduly interrupt Chewy's topic. Thanks to you all I can see now what I did not before. Didn't realize there were optional parts here. I guess I will try closed end first and see how it works after an FLTRI tune. Cheers.

[FLTRI]

Thanks for all the info. Hopefully I did not unduly interrupt Chewy's topic. Thanks to you all I can see now what I did not before. Didn't realize there were optional parts here. I guess I will try closed end first and see how it works after an FLTRI tune. Cheers.

Keith,
I believe this is good for this thread because it concerns the Supermeg and discs with open or closed end cap. Power-wise it is not a big change but the sound does change.
As I mentioned to you, get the sound you want first by trying open and closed end cap, then we'll tune.
Looking forward to it! 
Bob

[Coyote]

Thanks for all the info. Hopefully I did not unduly interrupt Chewy's topic. Thanks to you all I can see now what I did not before. Didn't realize there were optional parts here. I guess I will try closed end first and see how it works after an FLTRI tune. Cheers.

Keith,
I believe this is good for this thread because it concerns the Supermeg and discs with open or closed end cap. Power-wise it is not a big change but the sound does change.
As I mentioned to you, get the sound you want first by trying open and closed end cap, then we'll tune.
Looking forward to it! 
Bob

Give me a week or so. Pipes are going on this week, then a 55k service, then we change both tires, then a trip to the Hayward area. How do you sniff the O2 with a closed end cap? Or tune each cyl separately? Got lots of questions I guess! LOL 

[Jeffd]

you have to drill a hole in the end cap.  I am sure most tuners have one already drilled.  the end caps are cheap.  It is pretty easy to manipulate the sniffer up each header from the end cap.

[FLTRI]

Jeff answered you question correctly. Either you drill a hole in the middle of the closed end cap or I can. You will not notice any difference in noise from the 5/16 hole.

I do tune each cylinder individually and can do that by using a sample tube about 4ft long, inserting it through the hole and guiding it into the front cylinder's header pipe. Then, after tuning the front, the tube is pulled back and reinserted into the rear header pipe.

Hopefully you can be present with me in the room while all this happens. I will explain the entire process from beginning to end  so you will know and understand how all this is done and the whys.

[Bagger]

NRHS V-Twin Performance - Supertrapp Dyno Test

http://www.nrhsperformance.com/tech_supertrapp.shtml

The Supertrapp is a popular exhaust system on Harley Big Twins and XL's alike. We offer Supertrapp systems and we've seen many examples of our customers getting great results when using them.

Often we get asked about how many discs to use. Every engine combination has the potential to be a little different, but we went to the trouble of dyno testing disc packs from 12 to 26 on our '04 Sportster, which is a typical mildly modified street bike. Here are the results of that testing:

http://www.nrhsperformance.com/tech_supertrapp.shtml

[FLTRI]

NRHS V-Twin Performance - Supertrapp Dyno Test

http://www.nrhsperformance.com/tech_supertrapp.shtml

The Supertrapp is a popular exhaust system on Harley Big Twins and XL's alike. We offer Supertrapp systems and we've seen many examples of our customers getting great results when using them.

Often we get asked about how many discs to use. Every engine combination has the potential to be a little different, but we went to the trouble of dyno testing disc packs from 12 to 26 on our '04 Sportster, which is a typical mildly modified street bike. Here are the results of that testing:

http://www.nrhsperformance.com/tech_supertrapp.shtml

Great comparison. IMO this is a proper, back to back test for the Supertrapp Supermeg, 2into1 for Sportsters. Nice job!
However the Big Twin (TC) has a very different power output, as noted on your sites dyno graphs.

What I mean by this is generally the XL engines put out more horsepower vs  torque and @ higher rpms (6500-7000) while the BT engines put out more torque vs horsepower and @ lower rpms (6000-6500). (this applies TC builds with street cams not all out racing engines using cams with high overlap).

That said, we find there is a point of no return with the amount of discs added to the stack, possibly due to lower peak power rpms compared the the XLs. ie: typically once 18 discs with closed end cap is exceeded the return is very little, if any, on top and below 3000 is affected, albeit not a lot.

This is a great pipe for 99% of the BT owners simply because he/she can first adjust the noise level/tone to his/her liking. Then take it to the tuner and dial the AFR/timing for best performance. IMO, best of both worlds. In the early days I would not/could not get my head around how a modified spark arrestor (originally developed for the forestry to keep sparks from exiting the exhaust and burning down the forrest) could be considered a performance exhaust system, but that was 1000's of happy customers ago and the dyno don't lie.

Points to consider:
1) It is not the "sound" everyone likes. ie: Can not wake the dead like a Thunderheader or straight pipes and never will unless, of course, you remove the discs and baffle making it an obnoxiously loud, nonperformance POS.
2) It does not produce the absolute (2-3) highest "peak" numbers in the industry. ie: Thunderheader will outperform it in "peak" tq and hp.
3) It does not come with a "false" left side pipe to balance the "look" on baggers.

IMO, the Supermeg is by far the best compromise in looks, power, and most importantly adjustability. Especially as applied to baggers.

Disclaimer: I only use Thunderheader as an example due to its accepted, longstanding, "King of Peak Power" reputation. There are other systems that also outperform the Supermeg in "peak" numbers.

HTH,
Bob

[Bagger]

NRHS V-Twin Performance - Supertrapp Dyno Test

http://www.nrhsperformance.com/tech_supertrapp.shtml

The Supertrapp is a popular exhaust system on Harley Big Twins and XL's alike. We offer Supertrapp systems and we've seen many examples of our customers getting great results when using them.

Often we get asked about how many discs to use. Every engine combination has the potential to be a little different, but we went to the trouble of dyno testing disc packs from 12 to 26 on our '04 Sportster, which is a typical mildly modified street bike. Here are the results of that testing:

http://www.nrhsperformance.com/tech_supertrapp.shtml

Great comparison. IMO this is a proper, back to back test for the Supertrapp Supermeg, 2into1 for Sportsters. Nice job!
However the Big Twin (TC) has a very different power output, as noted on your sites dyno graphs.

HTH,
Bob

Hey Bob

This web link was not to my site, I have no affiliation with NRHS Performance - I just ran across the testing on their site.

[FLTRI]

Bagger,
Oop, sorry I was fooled by the statement you included in your post:

"Often we get asked about how many discs to use. Every engine combination has the potential to be a little different, but we went to the trouble of dyno testing disc packs from 12 to 26 on our '04 Sportster, which is a typical mildly modified street bike."

I know Brian Nalin and his company, NRHS but with your "Bagger" handle I didn't but if you might be an employee or something. Sure wish we could use first names. Guess I don't really understand forums that well, which is prolly why I only do this and some V-twin occationally.
Thanks for the clarification, and Happy New Year,
Bob (aka FLTRI)

[Bagger]

Bagger,
Oop, sorry I was fooled by the statement you included in your post:

"Often we get asked about how many discs to use. Every engine combination has the potential to be a little different, but we went to the trouble of dyno testing disc packs from 12 to 26 on our '04 Sportster, which is a typical mildly modified street bike."

I know Brian Nalin and his company, NRHS but with your "Bagger" handle I didn't but if you might be an employee or something. Sure wish we could use first names. Guess I don't really understand forums that well, which is prolly why I only do this and some V-twin occationally.
Thanks for the clarification, and Happy New Year,
Bob (aka FLTRI)

I'd like to have my own shop like NRHS with a dyno.......

[FLTRI]

Brian is a very knowlegable and talented guy who, in my opinion has talken an unwarranted big hit over the Revolution cylinders and some defective plating from outside sourcing.
Just go over to the otherr v-twin forum site and search on revolution performance. 

[Bagger]

Brian is a very knowlegable and talented guy who, in my opinion has talken an unwarranted big hit over the Revolution cylinders and some defective plating from outside sourcing.
Just go over to the otherr v-twin forum site and search on revolution performance. 

Bob, I don't believe the two sites are the same.  I believe Brian Nallin left NRHS and now does Revolution Performance.

Revolution Performance:  http://www.revperf.com/TwinCam/twinCamPerformKits.html

NHRS:  http://www.nrhsperformance.com/ekittc.shtml

[Bagger]

Just some more info FWIW I have on file - was considering the Supertrapp myself at one time a couple years ago.

Here's a couple of tidbits I found in regards to the Supertrapp, as I too having been looking for quiet performance.

Joe Minton: http://www.americanrider.com/output.cfm?id=1054045

The SuperTrapp 2-into-1 system we used to get our best results is probably the best all-around exhaust available for Harleys today. It combines large volume flow with good wave dynamics. Its closed end cap sends a strong pressure wave back up the pipes to help stop intake-charge loss when the rpm is too low for the closing angle of the exhaust valves. This accounts for the pipe's strong showing below 3,000 rpm. At the same time, its multiple-plate outlet provides high-volume flow for operation at high rpm.

Sound bite: http://s85.photobucket.com/albums/k69/JABMIKE/?action=view¤t=SUPERTRAPP.flv

Disc number testing:
http://www.nrhsperformance.com/tech_supertrapp.shtml

End Caps
http://store.summitracing.com/egnsearch.asp?N=400410+304765+115&Nao=0&autoview=sku#rstop

Forum discussions on Supertrapp:

From: MaineUltraClassic Sent: 2/12/2007 10:20 PM
Closed endcap/17 discs gives 99% flow
Open endcap/9 discs gives 99% flow

http://www.v-twinforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=100256

When I was on the dyno, we got the rest results with the open endcap/9 discs combo. Great low-end torque, and it still revs up on the top end. The open endcap also makes the exhaust a bit louder, enough to be heard in traffic. The closed endcap is almost too quiet, and the throttle response is not as quick. On the dyno it didn't produce the good low-end power, and the top end suffered too.

Pick up an open endcap and try it out..............it's the way to go for good overall performance.

Steve

http://www.v-twinforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=93543&highlight=Supertrapp

http://www.v-twinforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=64386&highlight=ohiomotoxer+supertrapp

http://www.v-twinforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=91249&highlight=supertrapp

http://www.v-twinforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=88860&highlight=supertrapp

[Blackbaggr]

I just put mine on today...20 disks/closed end cap...





[attachment removed after 60 days by system]

[Sonny S.]

I just put mine on today...20 disks/closed end cap...

Whadda ya think ?  Did you fire it ? Gonna take it for a putt before you pull it back off 

edit :   Never mind..... I just realized you prolly didn't put the 02 sensors in yet being as you have to take the pipe back off for....... your new cams !!!!

[14Frisco]

I really like the Supermegs on my 94 FLHR too.

One thing for Supermeg newcomers to watch out for, though, is the transmission clamp.  After you put on your new shiny SuperTrapps, keep an eye on that clamp since there is a chance it will break.  Many of us has replaced it with a beefier clamp.

[Blackbaggr]

I just put mine on today...20 disks/closed end cap...

Whadda ya think ?  Did you fire it ? Gonna take it for a putt before you pull it back off 

edit :   Never mind..... I just realized you prolly didn't put the 02 sensors in yet being as you have to take the pipe back off for....... your new cams !!!!

No didn't ride it....mostly for the reasons you stated. I like it...cleans it up ALOT ! Fits real nice....although the rear heat shield could be a hair longer...maybe I have to "f' with it more. Otherwise a real nice set up...no regrets.

[Blackbaggr]

One more from a different angle...

[attachment removed after 60 days by system]

[FLTRI]

Brian is a very knowlegable and talented guy who, in my opinion has talken an unwarranted big hit over the Revolution cylinders and some defective plating from outside sourcing.
Just go over to the otherr v-twin forum site and search on revolution performance. 

Bob, I don't believe the two sites are the same.  I believe Brian Nallin left NRHS and now does Revolution Performance.

Revolution Performance:  http://www.revperf.com/TwinCam/twinCamPerformKits.html

NHRS:  http://www.nrhsperformance.com/ekittc.shtml

The N of NRHS stands for Nalin as in Brian Nalin. But maybe he sold the "NRHS" letters to someone. I haven't spoke to Brian in a few years.
He is definitely RevPerf.