TTS...Empty VE table cells

[07heri]

Guys, when I save the new VE table while generating a new tune the cells I didn't visit during the run are empty.  When I go into Mastertune and pull up the new map the empty cells are filled in.  Where is Mastertune getting these numbers from if they were empty on the VTune table? 

Also, the TTS tuning guide says to only extend the rows that hit 80kPa.  If thats the case why all the talk about extending to the right and down?

The reason I ask is because after merging my VTune run with the previously generated tune these empty cells are automatically being filled in on the new map.  Empty on the VTune VE chart...Populated on the map.  I haven't done any extending down or to the right but Mastertune is doing something to generate numbers in these cells.

1)  Where is Mastertune getting the data to populate these cells?
2)  Should I be overwriting these cells with the number from the last good cell on the VTune VE chart?
3)  TTS Tuning Guide says to only extend rows that hit 80 kPa but doesn't say what to do with the other rows, nor does it mention anything about extending downward.
4)  Some say don't extend and just run the map.

What's the verdict?

Thanks,

07heri

[ssls6]

The empty cells shown during Vtune are cells that don't have enough data to be UPDATED.  Thus it uses the values loaded for those cells from the MT8 file that was loaded into Vtune.

Assume you have this in one row of an MT8 file loaded into your bike, the rpm doesn't matter

100 100 100 100 100 100

You do a Vtune run, stop, run the Vtune program, and get this

101 102 blank blank blank blank

If you accept the map, a new map is generated and the VE table will show this

101 102 100 100 100 100

if the last 102 value hit 80 kPa and you select auto-extend, you get this map

101 102 102 102 102 102

make sense?  I have played with this myself many times on two bikes and I think this is how it work.

[cts1950]

I believe what you are seeing after generating a Vtune and then looking at the new Master tune file
1 Is the cells you did not collect from your vtune run are simply unchanged from your original tune. It can only adjust the cells it is given data for.
2 Overwriting  the unchanged cells I personally use what some call smoothing look at the trend  and duplicate that. If I had to guess I would go High just to be safe. Lean will burn up your engine.
3 To hit loads over 80 kpa is tough to do on the street, so again it is a educated guess.
4 You end up with I think unrealistic maps by extending a VE for 60% throttle all the way to 100% Most natural aspirated engines loose efficiency as the rpms increase most dyno generated maps the VEs taper off as you get to the limits of the engines cams, air cleaner, exhaust, valve and port design.
5 When you are done with Vtuning run generic o2 data runs. this will allow you to look at the overall results of your tuning. Watch your o2.  your map settings and throttle position and RPMs as long as the o2s are actively switching the ecm is keeping the fuel at your CLS settings Make sure on a open loop condition High map loads the o2 voltage stays high. If it drops to the bottom rail, if it drops identify the conditions where that happens and manually adjust your AFR cells to add more fuel in those spots.
I am certain others will let you know if I am off base.

[rbabos]

Guys, when I save the new VE table while generating a new tune the cells I didn't visit during the run are empty.  When I go into Mastertune and pull up the new map the empty cells are filled in.  Where is Mastertune getting these numbers from if they were empty on the VTune table? 

Also, the TTS tuning guide says to only extend the rows that hit 80kPa.  If thats the case why all the talk about extending to the right and down?

The reason I ask is because after merging my VTune run with the previously generated tune these empty cells are automatically being filled in on the new map.  Empty on the VTune VE chart...Populated on the map.  I haven't done any extending down or to the right but Mastertune is doing something to generate numbers in these cells.

1)  Where is Mastertune getting the data to populate these cells?
2)  Should I be overwriting these cells with the number from the last good cell on the VTune VE chart?
3)  TTS Tuning Guide says to only extend rows that hit 80 kPa but doesn't say what to do with the other rows, nor does it mention anything about extending downward.
4)  Some say don't extend and just run the map.

What's the verdict?

Thanks,

07heri

Don't know and don't really care where these numbers come from but this raises an important, at least to me, methods to vtune by.
Vtune runs should be done to fill as many cells hit for normal and beyond normal riding conditions each and every time. Then accept the vtune. I no longer accept the vtune when doing specific areas if I have good cell hits beyond my normal riding zones.
As an example. I have finished my vtunes and want to do a couple of extra anal egr runs at lower rpms and lower kpa areas , I will do that but will not accept the vtune because it skews previously good ve numbers to the right of these recent specific areas. What I do is accept the egr run but will have both previous good vtuned cal and latest egr run cal both brought up on screen. In order to retain the egr effect,  ve numbers from the good full vtune need to be copied and pasted into the last egr run. If there is transition blending needed between the egr run and the full vtune numbers I do that (very minimal), then extend all cells below and to the right, save it and reload this calibration.
Bottom line, in my view is other than the first couple runs, don't accept any vtune files unless they are as full and complete as you need them to be. Otherwise there will be some creative math happening in the ve tables from accepting minimal vtune runs to the right. From that point on only afr changes are done if needed in specific areas, if the engine needs it.
I would only extend once you hit all areas at or beyond any normal riding conditions both to the right and below.
Ron

[Steve Cole]

We (TTS) only say to extend the data to the right in the same RPM row and this is what the auto extend in Vtune does. If you have no data to make and adjustment Vtune does not change those cells and that is why you see no number on the Vtune report. As stated above those cells retain there original value in that case.