Norton Wankel?

[Phu Cat]

I saw Craig's pic of the Norton Wankel.  Didn't know they ever made one.  Did it run any better than Suzuki's?  Have the same seal problems?

PC

[Princess Butt]

Holy Cow!

That would make a lot of sense. Take a perfectly weird, unreliable motor known for oil seal and burning issues, and stuff it into a perfectly unreliable motorcycle, with the spookiest electrical system around.

I doubt that it's factory, but a picture might be worthwhile.

BnEUC

[Flat Dog]

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/derek.nicol/


Just one of the many links I found doing a quick Google search. Yep-it's real.

[IBARider]

"and stuff it into a perfectly unreliable motorcycle"   

You mean like a harley... right?

[seattledyna]

at least HD doesnt use Lucas electrics

[baldoldfxr]

In the end Norton rotary's were pretty well sorted but are  rare , the English police used them at one time & the race bikes were beating everything else for a while realy p***ed the jap factories  off, who insisted the race bikes wer 1200cc not 600'
I dont know if Nortons new owner is going to make them again .

[PC_Hater]

Being Norton's the Wankels have their funny little ways but my mate John has done over 100,000 on his Commander. Ring his mobile number and he answers from Dubrovnik or somewhere else a hell of a long way away. On his Commander of course!

The bike is still on the original rear chain. The benefits of a very smooth motor and a totally enclosed oil bath for the chain.
The earlier air-cooled bikes are getting a bit rough by now but if you see one cheap and fancy a change do buy it!
Ideally you would do an EFI conversion. The carburation on the air-cooled and water-cooled bikes can be a bit iffy in places.

The seals etc are from Mazda who know a thing or two about rotary engines. 

[JimB]

Back in the 70s I use to race various English cars... Triumph GT6, Spitfire... MGBGT with other guys doing the same at Road Atlanta and Lucas was referred to as " The Prince of Darkness" ( before Ozzie did it ) because you could be running hard and for various reasons all or some of the electrics would go dead.  Beacuse it was a stock or slightly modified class we couldnt replace all of the components... but we did as many as allowed. Yeah, we all cheated when it came to Lucas....

Stalling a car in the middle of a road course isnt fun.

[PC_Hater]

Ah but, all of the alternatives we had to Lucas were worse! Wipac. Miller.

Lucas did make some very good stuff. They made the electrics for Rolls Royce but everybody else wanted electrics down to a price not up to a specification... Does any of that sound familiar?

[Kansas]

I owned a couple Wankel powered Mazdas back in the 70's. They were trouble free, smooth as glass, and really hauled butt.  I had a RX4 station wagon stck shift that could light up the tires through first and second and chirp them in third.

[HogBob]

Hey Fast Air,

I had a '52 MD TD and a '59 Austin Healy 3000 so I'm very familiar with the Prince of Darkness! Story goes that the reason the English never tried to send up astronauts in space is that they could not find three Brits crazy enough to strap themselves into a rocket looking at a large console full of Lucas (and Smiths) electronics.

Bob

[Phu Cat]

PC, if yer buddy has over 100,000 (miles? Km?) on his bike does he have to change seals regularly, or are they the originals? 

One of the pics on the site John posted showed a bike claiming 135 BHP.  Why didn't they catch on?

PC

[Reddog74usa]

They were the replacement for the Commando but it was a little to late for Norton as they had a bad rep for reliability due mostly to the Lucas electronics and they also had severe union problems. i rode Norton for many years. great machines. Heres a pic of my old Commando.

[HarleyCharley]

Bought a 750 Commando in '73 and rode the heck out of it until '77. The only problem I encountered was a chipped tooth on third gear. Replaced that and rode on. If Norton was still building bikes like the early '70's, I would probably have one. 

[texaskatfish]

REDDOG man oh MAN that's a real BEAUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

*drool*

[tinkerman]

You Norton bashers are hurting my feelings. Electronic ignition, three phase alternator, clean up the wiring and I will take either of my two Nortons anywhere. The hardtail might get a little uncomfortable but the fastback I have rebuilt to stock like condition and once you get the isolastic mounting system for the powertrain/swingarm assmbly squared away she is a beaut. For a 74, you would have to run it to believe how it handles.

So come on, give the Norton's some slack, they haven't made one for nearly thirty years. (Not the original outfit anyway)


Tink

[PC_Hater]

PC, if yer buddy has over 100,000 (miles? Km?) on his bike does he have to change seals regularly, or are they the originals? 
One of the pics on the site John posted showed a bike claiming 135 BHP.  Why didn't they catch on?

PC

The bike has over 100,000 miles on it. As in 103,000 or something.
The motor can be considered to have 'no user serviceable parts' inside. I am certain that the seals are original and it is possible to get them fixed if need be... Might have to be some sort of exchange program with Mazda though.

A lot of road testers didn't like the power characteristics or the exhaust note. They ride like a two-stroke. Zero engine braking. With few exceptions everybody on this list would find that a major change of riding style! The exhaust note is part two-stroke part fast-revving four stroke. And then there is the poor fuel economy and the paranoia about the seals.

The Wankel has had so little development time and money compared to the reciprocating piston engine. You need a really good reason to use one.  30cc rotary engines are/were used in some drone spy planes for example. You can get a very small very light and powerful motor with a rotary.

[GLFLSTCI02]

Hey Tinkerman,

I see your from the rock, there were lots of brit bikes back there in the early 70's, that's all we rode. I had a 72 Combat, one of the qickest bikes in Carbonear

Gene

[rdkng]

Barber Museum has a wankle Norton on display next to a suziki I think.
I always thought it was unfortunate the wankle didnt get the development money
as its a superior design to a piston that stops and starts so much.
rdkng   

[tinkerman]

Hey Gene,

I know this is a wankel thread but I couldn't resist putting in a plug for the Nortons. I have a 74 850 Fastback (original shape) and a 71 750 roadster roadkill that I hardtailed and turned into a bit of a rat bike. Like I say, change out the ignition, higher output alternator and clean up the wiring and they go like scat. I am still running the original Amals on mine with no issues.

As for the wankel, did a bit of reading on that over the years and for a while Norton thought it might be the way to re engineer the company. But ultimately they didn't re tool and keep up with the latest tech (like reliable electric start) and the Japs, especially the Honda 750 buried the Brits in four cylinder power and reliability that didn't drip or at least not nearly so much. Keep up or get left behind. (Which makes you wonder how Harley has stayed ahead of the crowd for so long) (Marketing a life style me thinks) Don't get me wrong now - I love my 88 FLSTC but even back in 88 it wasn't at the head of the pack in terms of engine technology.

I am just a sucker for these old bikes that need an hours wrenching for every five hours of riding.  (Gonna get me some of that Jap Scrap again one of these days)

Tink

[kevinj]

Norton is actually getting ready for a comeback, including a new wankel racer.
More info at http://www.nortonracing.com/