103 Thundermax AFR

[103phatboy07]

Just looking to see if anybody who is familiar with the thundermax could look over my map I have made. It is not loaded to my bike (103 stage 2 se255 cams) yet as I have played with the AFR maps and some of the timing. I would like to know if what I have done would be beneficial or harmful before I try it out.  The orignal map was 720 or 721 whichever was not the 2-1 exhaust option. Trying to get the most performance out of it.



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[mayor]

I think that your afr settings will result in leaner than anticipated results. Most of the time, the T-max settings end up a leaner reported value from a dyno sniffer than the map settings.  I run 13.021 as my heavy throttle afr on all rpm AFR maps, and limit my leaner afr settings of 14.121 at light cruise to the 2560-3328 rpm tables.  I run slightly richer light throttle afr (13.899) in the 1536-2304 maps.   I use this as a guide, and allow the engine to tell me whether it likes the settings.  I've found that the bike will exhibit signs of being lean (surging) at some rpm's in the light throttle ranges but not at others, with the exact same setting.  I'm assuming this is due to reversion causing "noise" in the auto-tune algorithm, but I'm not positive of that.   

[103phatboy07]

Awesome. Thanks for the reply and incite.
I was wondering on how the T-max AFR numbers would show up on something like a dyno which is why I havent tried playing with my map to much. I am still getting some surging in the lower Rpms when in first gear (not to sure of the rpm as I do not have a tach) so i will attempt to change that a little.
Now I know from creepin around on the forum that timing changes can be a touchy subject but on the thundermax is there any room for improvement such as the map with which I am using? Is it a trial and error kinda thing with regards to ping? or a kinda a do so at your own risk? Reason for asking is that I am postiive that this bike should be running a little stronger than it does.

[mayor]

Awesome. Thanks for the reply and incite.
I was wondering on how the T-max AFR numbers would show up on something like a dyno which is why I havent tried playing with my map to much. I am still getting some surging in the lower Rpms when in first gear (not to sure of the rpm as I do not have a tach) so i will attempt to change that a little.

that could be due to timing as well.  The Tmax system uses tps for timing, and load has no merrit on the timing.  You have less load in 1st gear than you do 6th, so the timing at a particular tps setting in 1st may not be quite advanced enough to make the engine happy there if you have that tps set for 6th gear.  IMO, it's the nature of the system.  The key is, set the timing for a particular tps based on the feel of the highest gear used at that particular tps setting. 

[103phatboy07]

Ahh I see.
I changed my AFR map and tried it out today. Seemed to work very well. Didnt seem to notice to much of a difference perfromance wise or anything. It just seems like the stage 2 103 would pull a little harder than it does. Is this due to a timing or afr issue in the map from zippers to make it on the safe side?  Anybody have any maps with a thundermax that they have tweaked a little that are willing to share?

[mayor]

the timing is fairly retarded in places on your map that is likely affecting how the bike feels.  There's plenty of data posted in this tuning section that covers timing, but you will not find specific answers....that's cause there is no specific answer. The answers come from how the bike reacts to specific changes.  Here's some threads that will guide along the way:

T-max tuning threads:

• ThunderMax tuning



• TMAX Timing @ RPM - Why does timing increase?


• Another Thundermax Tuning Assistance Request

general timing thread:

• TIMING....... IS EVERYTHING !

here's a thread that discusses timing, but is mostly about another tuning system (the timing principals still apply, but you need to :

• TTS...Dummy list for timing? 

hth,
mayor

[Eleft36]

Ahh I see.
I changed my AFR map and tried it out today. Seemed to work very well. Didnt seem to notice to much of a difference perfromance wise or anything. It just seems like the stage 2 103 would pull a little harder than it does. Is this due to a timing or afr issue in the map from zippers to make it on the safe side?  Anybody have any maps with a thundermax that they have tweaked a little that are willing to share?

It's map 704 your are welcome to it.
I have an .045 head gasket and Andrews 26 cams and my 51 year old Snap on compression gauge says the cranking pressure is 155 psi.
But it runs strong and idles nice without any decel popping.
Fuel mileage is 38 to 42 depending on traffic conditions.

Hopefully it works as well for you.
Al

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[mayor]

Al, I think your compression gauge is lying to you.     you are likely cranking much higher pressure than that. 

[Eleft36]

Al, I think your compression gauge is lying to you.     you are likely cranking much higher pressure than that.

Yes,   but we've been together for 51years and it did show me the same, front and rear. "Equal" is more important than the number.

Al