Kinda dissapointed in my new hydraulic clutch, at least so far.

[gryphon]

Last year I installed a VPC clutch with the later style easy HD ramp and ball assembly. With that setup, even when running the SE spring, the clutch pull was way easy and very smooth. Well recently I picked up a new HD hydraulic clutch. From everything I'd heard it resuted in an even smoother and easier pull. Well, it looks good, and I like being able to route the line without having to worry about keeping wide curves like with a cable. Problem is, it now feels like it did before I added the VPC and ramp assembly. The lever pull is certainly smooth enough but it's pretty stiff. Not more than I would want to handle but I suppose I had expected it to be even easier, not harder. Anyone else here running one. How's the pull on yours. Can't say how it performs yet since the weathers not co-operating.

[gryphon]

Before someone else brings it up. This is all the complete, matched, OEM stuff so it's not a matter of a mismatched master cylinder. Oh and, there's no kinkis in the hydraulic line.

[Yogibear]

Go back and check everything as I have the Hyd factory clutch and thr SE spring along with the VPC and it works nice and easy and smooth !!!!! I would guess you have something draging or misaligned because of the way mine and several others I have been involved in works .


                                                     Good luck , Yogi

[smoserx1]

Other than removing the friction of the cable, there is nothing about a hydraulic setup that will  make the pull any easier, at least if two conditions remain as they were.  1.  The distance the clutch moves the pressure plate outward remains the same and 2.  The spring remains the same.  If these two conditions are exactly the same in the hydraulic vs the mechanical setup, the effort required at the clutch cable has to be the same, less any friction of the cable.  Leverage is leverage.  About all those easy pull kits do is change the ball and ramp mechanism so that when you pull in your clutch lever, the pressure plate moves less distance away from the clutch disk pack, providing you with more leverage. 

[fuzznut5197]

smoserx1 nailed it. Leverage is leverage, and all you have done is removed any added resistance due to clutch cable friction. Both a cable and hydraulic are "passive", if you want to "cheat" leverage, you need an active system. IE power brakes, power steering, etc.

[HDDOC]

I have a 09 SERG with Hydo clutch, I added the VPC and it is very easy pull.  Doc.

[gryphon]

I understand that "leverage is leverage" but, I really didn't expect the lever pull to increase with the addition of hydraulics. When I added the VPC clutch last year it made it very obviously much easier to pull the lever. The difference between my bike and my son's was like night and day. With the addition of the hydraulics they are now much more comparable. Admittedly the hydraulic feels smoother since there is no drag from the cable. I've never run a hydraulic clutch on a bike before and the only thing I had to go on was how much the guys with them bragged about how smooth and easy they were so naturally I'm a little surprised to find the opposite effect. Well, I'll ride with it for a little bit before I decide. I'll either stay with it or you'll see it on ebay.

[tomp]

Let me know if you decide to dump it. I have a Barnett Scorpion so the VPC is not an option for me.

[rmc115]

smoserx1 nailed it. Leverage is leverage, and all you have done is removed any added resistance due to clutch cable friction. Both a cable and hydraulic are "passive", if you want to "cheat" leverage, you need an active system. IE power brakes, power steering, etc.

I disagree, have you tried to drive a car with power steering or brakes without the power? The ratios are changed because of the hydraulic advantage. The sizes of the hydraulics make it possible to do more work with less effort. Not the issue with this bike if all the pieces are correct but the principle applies. Mike

[waskier01]

Leverage is leverage, but the leverage in the hydraulics comes from the Master Cylinder Bore size/Slave Piston size.  Another consideration is the installed lubrication of the slave piston o-ring.  Installed dry these take quite a while to fully "lubricate" the o-ring with brake fluid.  It might just break-in slowly.

[smoserx1]

The sizes of the hydraulics make it possible to do more work with less effort. Not the issue with this bike if all the pieces are correct but the principle applies. Mike

With all due respect, I have to disagree here.  In the case of power assist in cars, you have engine vacuum providing power for the brakes and an engine driven pump supplying hydraulic assist for the steering.  In both cases you have added energy from the engine being supplied on top of the human energy to these systems.  That is not the case with the HD hydraulic clutch, the energy here is all human supplied.  Work is force * distance, and leverage determines the amount of force required to move a certain distance.  In the case of the hydraulic clutch the leverage is determined by the ratio of the areas of the MC piston vs the slave piston, but again, if both clutches move the pressure plate the exact same distance, and both clutches have the exact same spring resistance, then the lever effort should be the same, less any cable friction.  I don't see how it could be otherwise.

[HIPPO]

For the most part, the guys saying that the HD hydraulic clutch was easier then the stock one were in the days before the low effort 06 system.

It has become very rare for people to replace the 06 system with hydraulics, unless it is some sort of custom job going for looks.

[dirtbike_pgr]

not sure what this adds but i have an 06 SG that came with the easy pull system

but had it changed to 95 and stuff b4 i picked it up

they also added an extra clutch plate..

pulls as hard as my old evo bagger did..

but never slips  94h 94t

[blk-betty]

For the most part, the guys saying that the HD hydraulic clutch was easier then the stock one were in the days before the low effort 06 system.

It has become very rare for people to replace the 06 system with hydraulics, unless it is some sort of custom job going for looks.

I understand that "leverage is leverage" but, I really didn't expect the lever pull to increase with the addition of hydraulics. When I added the VPC clutch last year it made it very obviously much easier to pull the lever. The difference between my bike and my son's was like night and day.

IMHO these 2 quotes sum it up perfectly.  The 06-later low effort system COMBINED with a VPC is the cat's meow.  This setup provides less effort than the hydraulic setup by itself.  Can't speak about hydraulic with VPC but the 06 low effort cable and VPC is like "butta".

[rmc115]

The sizes of the hydraulics make it possible to do more work with less effort. Not the issue with this bike if all the pieces are correct but the principle applies. Mike

With all due respect, I have to disagree here.  In the case of power assist in cars, you have engine vacuum providing power for the brakes and an engine driven pump supplying hydraulic assist for the steering.  In both cases you have added energy from the engine being supplied on top of the human energy to these systems.  That is not the case with the HD hydraulic clutch, the energy here is all human supplied.  Work is force * distance, and leverage determines the amount of force required to move a certain distance.  In the case of the hydraulic clutch the leverage is determined by the ratio of the areas of the MC piston vs the slave piston, but again, if both clutches move the pressure plate the exact same distance, and both clutches have the exact same spring resistance, then the lever effort should be the same, less any cable friction.  I don't see how it could be otherwise.

Changing the bore size of the master would change the lever effort. But it's moot, we can't change it with stock pieces.

[waskier01]

There's no reason you can't put the easy pull spring and VPC on with hydraulics.