TTS closed loop conversion to a '04 touring, need a starting cal

[Thumper Buttercup]

OK Guys,

With our build what Map am I looking at starting at.  We could
be running this weekend and did not want to wait to ask when
you guys are all out riding.

04 ULTRA
95 Cu build
SE Flat Top pistons
Larrys Stage 1 head work
.030 Head Gasket
48N cams
Stock injectors and throttle body
Stage one Air with Exotic Air Filter
SuperTrapp Super Meg 2 to 1

Sorry I forgot to put this is for TTS

[mayor]

I think you need to be a little more specific....

he needs a cal recomendation for his '04 touring bike running in closed loop with an -05 ECM using TTS. 

[Thumper Buttercup]

I think you need to be a little more specific....

he needs a cal recomendation for his '04 touring bike running in closed loop with an -05 ECM using TTS.

Thanks Mike

[mayor]

I changed the title for you, to hopefully get an answer.  I'm not sure what cal needs to be used or what constants need changed to get this to work, but I'm sure someone here does. 

[hrdtail78]

CAA176 is what I started with.

06FLH closed loop
Andrews 26
TH 2-1, S&S A/C
95 w/ street ported heads by Dewey Jelen.

[mayor]

is there any tuning constants that need changed for a '04?  is the TB and injectors the same as the '06's? 

[hrdtail78]

I didn't look into it since I was tuning a 06.  But yes there are some difference in injectors from 04 to 06.  8 degree vs 25 degree.

I think the 04 will have 27609-01 and my 06 have 27625-06A.  I don't now the flow rate difference in these.  I'm sure you can search this site and find that stuff.  Good luck.

You might want to look at app. B in the cal. file listing manual.

[Thumper Buttercup]

I didn't look into it since I was tuning a 06.  But yes there are some difference in injectors from 04 to 06.  8 degree vs 25 degree.

I think the 04 will have 27609-01 and my 06 have 27625-06A.  I don't now the flow rate difference in these.  I'm sure you can search this site and find that stuff.  Good luck.

You might want to look at app. B in the cal. file listing manual.

Ours had the 27609-01B's, on the 06's the throttle body is larger I think??

We got our TTS today so I can look through the software and see if I have
any questions.

Hopefully our 02's and the extra pins for wiring will be here tomorrow.

[Thumper Buttercup]

OK reading the book it says for our 04 to use the 176 cal's.  It also states on
that page that you need to have 25 degree injectors or 4.9 g/s high-flow
injectors for the 176 cals.

This is on the top of page 19 of the Mastertune-HD Calibration File Listing.


How much can you change after you select a Cal??

[hrdtail78]

IMO The 176 cal. is the one you want.  Constants can be changed, and who cares if the VE's have to come in over 20 change.  There are some other tables that are good for a starting point.  I would assume injector size in the constants will affect more than just the VE's but I have also assumed that it affects the VE's the most.  I used to pick cam timing as the most important.  Not true with the MT8's.  Now I pick from the overall build.  Compression, pipe style, cam style...IE: low/mid, mid, or high end.

Keeping it simple.  Tuning is about figuring out how much air is pumpling through the engine and making fuel and spark optimal to that airflow.  That is all.

[mayor]

OK reading the book it says for our 04 to use the 176 cal's.  It also states on
that page that you need to have 25 degree injectors or 4.9 g/s high-flow
injectors for the 176 cals.

How much can you change after you select a Cal??

you change these settings under:  table selection/tuning constants

Keeping it simple.  Tuning is about figuring out how much air is pumpling through the engine and making fuel and spark optimal to that airflow.  That is all.

it really is that simple. 

[Thumper Buttercup]

OK,

Monitor mounted on Ram mount, selected Cal

CAA176-03 2006-2011 2 into 1 Exhaust with 02 sensors
Configuration: 1580 Stage 2

Componets

25 deg injectors
Air Cleaner and Breather Kit
.550: Lift 211/235 Duration Camshaft
RB Racing 2 into 1 Exhaust


Adjusted

Displacement to 95cu
Injectors to 4.35 GPS
Adjusted Cams based on Andrews setting using the Cam Estimator

Still waiting on the 02 sensors and plug hardware.


Question, If Rev-Perf turned off the 02's can TTS turn them on or
will they be turned on when I upload the new map???

Thanks Guys, looking for Tuesday or Wednesday tune day if all works out.

[Hilly13]

The 02's will come back with the TTS cal if the AFR table is set for closed loop.

[Thumper Buttercup]

Thanks Hilly13,

   This cal is a closed loop cal.  Just what I needed to know, thanks.

[mayor]

what Hilly was meaning was you need to make sure you set the afr tables to 14.6, which turns the system into closed lop instead of open. 

[Thumper Buttercup]

what Hilly was meaning was you need to make sure you set the afr tables to 14.6, which turns the system into closed lop instead of open.

Mike on that cal most of the map is already set for 14.6.

Blocks 30 to 80 Map(kpa) and 750 to 4500 RPM

Should I set the 20 and 90 and 100 Map blocks and the 5000 up rpm blocks to 14.6 and let the 02's sort it out with the V-tune???

[mayor]

yes, you will set all the cells to 14.6 except the last column.  Just click in the rpm cell in the upper corner to highlight all the cells, then use the 20 increment button to max out the cells to their leanest allowable settings. 

[Hilly13]

Let the fun begin
Your in good hands thumper, mayor is a vtune addict 

[Thumper Buttercup]

OK,

  Got that setup.


One last question for today

This cal is for a 06, what would be the primary Gear Ratio for our 05???

[lonewolf]

Adjusted Cams based on Andrews setting using the Cam Estimator

I would set the IVO by collecting some cam data, then try what it suggests and also try one number lower. See which one the bike likes and see where idle kpa is.

[Thumper Buttercup]

Adjusted Cams based on Andrews setting using the Cam Estimator

I would set the IVO by collecting some cam data, then try what it suggests and also try one number lower. See which one the bike likes and see where idle kpa is.

Using the Cam Estimator it suggested to set the opening at one earlier and the closing at
one later,  that is where I started with.

[lonewolf]

What's your kpa at idle?

[mayor]

Adjusted Cams based on Andrews setting using the Cam Estimator

I would set the IVO by collecting some cam data, then try what it suggests and also try one number lower. See which one the bike likes and see where idle kpa is.

Using the Cam Estimator it suggested to set the opening at one earlier and the closing at
one later,  that is where I started with.

lonewolf was not referring to the published data, but rather the tested data. He's referring to a test you do using the datamaster program to determine what the intake valve's open point is.  To do that you warm the bike up to operating temp, then record cam IVO data using the Datamaster program, then analyse the data to see where the data suggests the opening is. 

[Thumper Buttercup]

OK got it now,

lonewolf, still waiting for my 02's and the last of the stuff to make
my wiring harness.  Should be here Monday or Tuesday and we will
be fired up by the next day.

I figure to fire it up and see what is going on with the interface then
ride up and down the driveway a couple times to see if I'm getting
data ok, then we will take her out on the local roads to tune.

[hrdtail78]

When comparing one setting to the next, or one cal. to another, Vtune them in the idle area before making a decision.  This will also let you see if you are gathering data and such.