Stimulus Package?

[BrownsfaninMN]

Can someone please explain to me how giving everybody a $500 check will stimulate the economy, I mean nothing is made here anymore (even some HD parts), our manufacturing sector is a joke, why should the government burden themselves with yet more debt, will it help?  By buying more foreign made stuff won't bring jobs back...

[tireater]

We will be borrowing the money from China...better spend it at Walmart....

[blk-betty]

Read somewhere online that it likely won't be a check like last time but a reduction in taxes withheld so the averge Joe's take home pay will increase by $5-10 per check. 

Man the possibilities are endless with what I could do with an additonal $5-10 every 2 weeks.  I could hardly sleep last night trying to decide what I'd like to buy with that money to do my part to stimulate the economy.

On a lighter note, wife just found out her IT dept job very well may be outsourced to China in the next several months.  Her company is international and foreign owned but the worldwide headquarters is here in SC.  Seems a computer programmer/developer making $75-100K a year here (she is not a developer or programmer but an IT BUsiness Analyst so that is more than she makes) can be found in China for $15k a year.  Nice, eh!

[Justpassingas]

and 15K a year is probably living large in China

[Big Dan]

blk-betty,
The saddest part is, after your wife's employer does this, the rest of us will continue to buy from/do business with that comapny as if nothing at all happened. Our grandparents would have boycotted them and raised all kinds of hell. We, on the other hand, are not nearly as strong or as principled. We've done it to ourselves.

[tireater]

Obama's stimulus package will create 3.5 mil. jobs for a cost of $775 billion...That is $221,429 per job...Doesn't sound like change to me...

[Phu Cat]

We, on the other hand, are not nearly as strong or as principled.
Ya might say we're spoiled.

PC

[wayzalot]

I think the best stimulous package would be to fix or infrustructure.  Bridges and roads etc. are getting wore out and if they spent the money there, it would stay in the USA and jobs would be created.  The trickle down would be the purchase of trucks, dozers, backhoes, etc. which alot are made in the USA. And when it was all spent we would reap some benifits.  Not like if we all go out an buy a big screen plasma tv from China.

[blk-betty]

and 15K a year is probably living large in China

No doubt.

blk-betty,
The saddest part is, after your wife's employer does this, the rest of us will continue to buy from/do business with that comapny as if nothing at all happened. Our grandparents would have boycotted them and raised all kinds of hell. We, on the other hand, are not nearly as strong or as principled. We've done it to ourselves.

Yep but not that easy in this case to boycott.  Her company makes "paper machine clothing" which is the highly engineered textile like fabrics that are used by paper/carboard/tissue etc companies on the machines in the mills.  US paper and forest products companies are being driven out and replaced, like everything else, by foreign sources.  She kinda figued since the "business" aspect of the company (about a $350-400million/year company) was here her job as an analyst would be safe but it looks like they may outsouce everything they can.  To leadership it's no big deal as they have manufacturing plants and operations in Asia, Europe, North America, and South America. 

Oh well, it is what it is and hopefully since she is not a direct IT person her position will be spared.  It is interesting to me that her company is international and foreign owned but chooses to locate it's headquarters in North America and all of the top leadership (VPs and Presidents) are American or Canadian, owners are German and Belgium.   

[Fxstchewy]

I can say one good thing for the company i work for, they have actually slowed down their operation in communist china and brought work back to NC, it seems that APAC buisness has really slowed to a crawl and 8-10 week lead times from there to here for shipping has helped move work from communist china cheap labor ain't always the best way. i used to worry about losing my job to communist china but now i worry more about the clowns in gobment messing up everything. Chewy

[telricks]

I too can report the company I work for have to bring the internet help desk back inside our borders, since they were losing so many customers.
If we did it to ourselves, then we have to undo it to ourselves and think B4 we buy. More than ever.

They only understand, when you speak from your wallet.  All else falls on def ears.

[Faast Ed]

Obama's stimulus package will create 3.5 mil. jobs for a cost of $775 billion...That is $221,429 per job...Doesn't sound like change to me...

I believe that is how much it will cost to create the jobs, (not the salary earned at those jobs).
The politically tied contractors are going to have reason to celebrate!

[Flat Dog]

Just as they have during the administration that is on their way out, only teh funds will be redirected from military contractors to civil contractors. No difference, except where and for whom the end product is used.

[Faast Ed]

Something tells me that the contractors will be forced to hire more minorities.

[96flhpi]

Can someone please explain to me how giving everybody a $500 check will stimulate the economy, I mean nothing is made here anymore (even some HD parts), our manufacturing sector is a joke, why should the government burden themselves with yet more debt, will it help?  By buying more foreign made stuff won't bring jobs back...

Buying foreign products won't bring jobs back but it WILL make the ceo's and owner's of the companies that import and sell that crap even richer.  I mean, that's the desired end result, isn't it?  Isn't it ALWAYS?

If we ever get into a major WWII type war where manufacturers (what's left of them) have to switch to war production and people have to change their daily lives we're effed.

[TooLow]

Read somewhere online that it likely won't be a check like last time but a reduction in taxes withheld so the averge Joe's take home pay will increase by $5-10 per check.

I also read this. My thought is the same, a $10 in crease in my bi-weekly take home is not going to make me spend more. Also My girlfriend is disabled does not work so will not recieve anything as well as my elderly mother who we help support.  which they each got some money last year with the new plan I dont see them getting anything.

Another thought is what comes with the 2009 income taxes.  if my yearly income is the same but I have paid in $500 less in taxes through out the year it will lower my tax return, there fore I will be just paying the the stimulus right back to the goverment. Kinda smart on their part,  Not sure how it will work but just dont see it helping many folks.    TooLow.

[Jeffd]

tell me that our (working class) taxes are not going to go up.  Let's see give everybody that does not pay taxes $1000 or more, create a facade of jobs by rebuilding roads/bridges...on government money....somebody has to pay guess who me and you bro.  Some said "HOPE" I said "NOPE" 

[ederdelyi]

>>If we ever get into a major WWII type war where manufacturers (what's left of them) have to switch to war production and people have to change their daily lives we're effed.<<

While that is most certainly true (and a truly scary thought) the reality is that with modern warfare tactics and weapons there will be no chance for a "ramp up". You better be ready to fight the war RIGHT NOW and make sure you can take them out before they can use what they have. Besides, why fight us when you can just sit back and let the greed and apathy that are so prevalent in this country do the job for you? God help us if we are ever to be faced with the aspect of what the folks who got us thru WWII did .... shoot, some folks might not be able to drive their Beemer or not have batteries for their Ipod :>)

[Faast Ed]

Read somewhere online that it likely won't be a check like last time but a reduction in taxes withheld so the averge Joe's take home pay will increase by $5-10 per check.

I read this too. Problem is with my 6 dependants they don't take out much now. I'll have to increase my withholding to benefit. LMAO!
The single folks will be the only ones to benefit.

[tireater]

I guess me and my shopping cart girl ain't gonna get much stimulation...I'm self employed...

[HarleyCharley]

Same here tireater, however, my business is tied to hosiery which has in majority moved offshore. I see no benefits coming our way. 

Chewy, I see you're in Newton, I'm in Conover, shoot me a pm sometime.

Charley

[02roadcling]

hosiery, cool, got any pics of chicks? 

[HarleyCharley]

Not that I can share. Sorry!   

[northbrun]

I have a stimulus package... an add campain touting patriotism.... buy American... read labels (know where things are made)...... support American business!
if we really started doing this local companies would take off business would pick up and our economy would improve in a matter of months,,, I know its more complacated than that, but maybe if we stopped supporting all the 3rd world countries on this planet we could afford to live here...
sorry if I'm babbling...jmho.

[wayzalot]

northbrun,  Makes sense to me except can you find American made shoes or clothes?  Even Red wing shoes have moved overseas.  I wonder if anyone knows of a site that list were we can find American stuff.  Like what stores, brands, or web site.

[wayzalot]

http://www.allamericanclothing.com/index.php

Thanks I don't mind paying a little more to keep my money on this side of the boarder.

[bigtoe]

   You can try www.howtobuyamerican.com

[Big Dan]

wayzalot,
A few years ago, New Balance shoes pledged to keep at least 25% of their manufacturing here in America. That doesn't sound like much, but it's a lot more than Nike, Reebok, etc were doing at the time. Perhaps still is. I believe that if people stopped buying other brands and bought New Balance, and made it known that they did so because of the USA manufacturing, the other brands would soon follow suit.

There's no doubt in my mind that if enough people acted accordingly, we could turn this thing around. Unfortunately, not enough of us are willing to bite the bullet and do what needs to be done. And before I get grilled, no I'm not anywhere near perfect in my quest to buy only American, but I do try damned hard.

[Lovetoride007]

Any one have an opinion on our Government or local government ignoring the illegal alien problem ,all the jobs that are taken and the moneys send back to there native country's , Billions of dollars a week taken right out of our economy

[Faast Ed]

Any one have an opinion on our Government or local government ignoring the illegal alien problem ,all the jobs that are taken and the moneys send back to there native country's , Billions of dollars a week taken right out of our economy

I hear news blips now and then where the Government makes mass arrests at factories, but I don't hear it real often.
Point being: "Some" effort is being made.  Nailing them at the border as well.

I would like to see more of it, if the budget cuts don't stop 'em from pursuing it.

[tireater]

For the most part...illegals still get a pass here in Cali....I could throw a rock and hit 20 from where I sit...
There are so many illegals in Santa Barbara that people have to leave town when they graduate school for affordable housing...
It has been like the Mariel boat lift....We just didn't get the hard working Mexicans...
We got gang bangers, drug addicts and dealers...And almost everyone works for cash and only pays sales tax...
And it's not just illegals that are breaking our emergency rooms for free medical treatments...(until you pay $15 for an aspirin)...
Reg. mex/Americans pretend to be illegals for the free medical care...Let's not forget a large % of prisoners ar illegals....
They are already doing protests to complain about cutbacks in all the free stuff illegals DEMAND...
We need to adopt the immigration laws of Mexico...Quid pro quo...

[80sc]

I agree with 96flhpi. If we did have another WW2 type war, what would we do, we couldn't tool up fast enough.
I think that china has us right were thay want us. Turn our corparate greed to there benifit by taking all our manufacturing from us then when we are too weak, BAM, new turf for all those in overpopulated china.

If this stimulus plan is to truly work our government has to buy "made in america, by american" products for this rebiulding plan.
For many decades we worked well with the canadians and kept things in north america and prospered, can't we go back to that?

Just my thoghts

Tim

[Princess Butt]

Our infrastructure is falling apart. We've not built any significant new interstates in a while. Remember the bridge collapse in Minnesota? There's a lot of bridge in the US that are 40 or 50 years old, and in dire need of replacement.

I think Obama is doing the right thing by encouraging infrastructure improvements. We need them anyway, the economy stinks, and roadwork improvements will keep jobs in the US.

We could easily tool up for wartime production for material, most of that stuff is made in the USA. The only military equipment I know is made overseas is the canon on the Abrams tanks; they're made in Germany, by the same company who made the canon for the Tiger tank.

BnEUC

[HIPPO]

The only way infrastructure repair can be done even half way efficiently is to first repeal affirmative action and the Davis-Bacon act.
Without that the lions share of our taxpayer money will be wasted on fraud, bureaucracy, and ACORN style pork barrels.


There is not going to be another WW2.

If there is a WW3 it will be over real quick, and WW4 will be fought with stones and sticks.

[Deye76]

How would repeal of the Davis -Bacon Act help? If I understand it, and it were repealed, contractors could hire labors from a different state, possibly illegal immigrants. If Arizona has a project to replace highways and bridges, for example, then the labor should come from legal citizens from that state. If the prevailing wage were deemed overly excessive, then an ammendment to the Act may be in order. IMO fixing it rather than suspension or repeal is beneficial. But lower bids remain to be seen. Sorry but I increasingly become cynical.

[egstandard]

I agree with you deye76. Unskilled labor for cheaper wages will mean more illegals getting the jobs. Why is it people in the western states always want us union workers from the east to work for there paltry wages?

[Deye76]

I don't believe geographics have anything to do with it, rather politics (party affiliation).  Old timers remember the WPA, on the job training, and put food on the table for a lot of Americans.

[Juice]

Did the last ones we got do anything for anybody really?   Its just the same bull from the same kind of yaehews. Myself, i'm just getting ready for the next few years, we havn't seen how bad it will get yet.

[HIPPO]

How would repeal of the Davis -Bacon Act help? If I understand it, and it were repealed, contractors could hire labors from a different state, possibly illegal immigrants. If Arizona has a project to replace highways and bridges, for example, then the labor should come from legal citizens from that state. If the prevailing wage were deemed overly excessive, then an ammendment to the Act may be in order. IMO fixing it rather than suspension or repeal is beneficial. But lower bids remain to be seen. Sorry but I increasingly become cynical.

The jobs should go to the most qualified citizens. Funds should be administered by the federal government and most emphatically NOT by local officials. Funds should only be released in small installments upon proof of completion of prior stages. Contractors should be held to strict performance standards with major penalty for delays. Etc, etc.

[truck]

The USofA is going to be having a civil war by the summer of 2010 according to that Russian guy so don't worry about the stimulus package.




An academic and former KGB analyst expects the United States to break up by the summer of 2010.





    MOSCOW â€" For a decade, Russian academic Igor Panarin has been predicting the U.S. will fall apart in 2010.

    For most of that time, he admits, few took his argument â€" that an economic and moral collapse will trigger a civil war and the eventual breakup of the U.S. â€" very seriously. Now he’s found an eager audience: Russian state media.

    In recent weeks he’s been interviewed as much as twice a day about his predictions.

    Panarin, 50, is not a fringe fi gure. A former KGB analyst, he is dean of the Russian Foreign Ministry’s academy for future diplomats. He is invited to Kremlin receptions, lectures students, publishes books, and appears in the media as an expert on U.S.-Russia relations.

    But it’s his bleak forecast for the U.S. that is music to the ears of the Kremlin, which has blamed Washington for everything from instability in the Middle East to the global fi nancial crisis.

    Panarin’s views fi t neatly with the Kremlin’s narrative that Russia is returning to its rightful place on the world stage after the weakness of the 1990s, when many feared the country would go economically and politically bankrupt and break into separate territories.

    The polite and cheerful Panarin insisted he does not dislike Americans. But he warned that the outlook for them is dire.

    “There’s a 55-45 percent chance right now that disintegration will occur,” he said.

    “One could rejoice in that process,” he added. “But if we’re talking reasonably, it’s not the best scenario â€" for Russia.”

    Though Russia would become more powerful on the global stage, he says, its economy would suffer because it depends heavily on the dollar and on trade with the U.S.

    Panarin believes mass immigration, economic decline, and moral degradation will trigger a civil war next fall and the collapse of the dollar.

    In June or July 2010, he said, the U.S. will break into six pieces â€" with Alaska reverting to Russian control.

    Panarin’s apocalyptic vision “reflects a very pronounced degree of anti-Americanism in Russia today,” said Vladimir Pozner, a prominent TV journalist in Russia. “It’s much stronger than it was in the Soviet Union.”

    Pozner and other Russian c o m m e n t a t o r s d i s m i s s Panarin’s predictions.

    “Crazy ideas are not usually discussed by serious people,” said Sergei Rogov, director of the government-run Institute for U.S. and Canadian Studies, who thinks Panarin’s theories don’t hold water.

    Panarin said he began his career in the KGB in 1976. In post-Soviet Russia, he got a doctorate in political science, studied U.S. economics, and worked for FAPSI, then the Russian equivalent of the U.S. National Security Agency. He says he did strategy forecasts for then-President Boris N. Yeltsin, adding that the details are classifi ed.

    In September 1998, he attended a conference in Austria devoted to information warfare, the use of data to get an edge over a rival. It was there that he first presented his theory about the collapse of the U.S. in 2010.

    “When I pushed the button on my computer and the map of the United States disintegrated, hundreds of people cried out in surprise,” he recalled.

    Most in the audience were skeptical, he said. But at the end of the presentation, many delegates asked him to autograph copies of the map showing a dismembered U.S.

    He based the forecast on classified data supplied to him by FAPSI analysts, he said.

    Interest in his forecast revived this fall when he published an article in Izvestia, one of Russia’s biggest national dailies. In it, he reiterated his theory, called U.S. foreign debt a pyramid scheme and predicted China and Russia would usurp Washington’s role as a global fi nancial regulator.

    Americans hope Presidentelect Barack Obama can work miracles, he wrote.

    “But when spring comes, it will be clear that there are no miracles,” Panarin argued.

    The article prompted a question about the White House’s reaction to Panarin’s forecast at a December news conference.

    “I’ll have to decline to comment,” spokeswoman Dana Perino said amid much laughter.

    For Panarin, Perino’s response was signifi cant.

    “The way the answer was phrased was an indication that my views are being listened to very carefully,” he said.

    The professor is convinced people are taking his theory more seriously, noting that others have forecast similar cataclysms before and been right.

    He cited French political scientist Emmanuel Todd, who forecast the demise of the Soviet Union 15 years beforehand.

    “When he forecast the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1976, people laughed at him,” Panarin said.

[telricks]

“There’s a 55-45 percent chance right now that disintegration will occur,” he said.

What do the Vegas odds masters have this one at?

[HIPPO]

“There’s a 55-45 percent chance right now that disintegration will occur,” he said.

What do the Vegas odds masters have this one at?

The chance that it happens along the lines this Russian says?

IMO
Zero

Another war of northern aggression?
Higher



The communists never heard the question "Who is John Galt?. Google it.

[HIPPO]

I don't know about the civil war, but it's not to far fetched? folks are in a bad way in the USA. and all over the world, went to Wal-Mart today to buy ammo for my guns, the only thing that was left was the 22 CCI mini mags that I wanted and the guy said they where just stocked last night!

NO 357 or 45 was on the self, the guy told me that ALL ammo was on hold to order for Wal-Mart....Get a clue! Something is going on here, and it is not a good sign IMO

http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/
They have all the good stuff and good prices.
They have been way behind in shipping ever since the result of the elections.

[HDRDR]

I don't know about the civil war, but it's not to far fetched? folks are in a bad way in the USA. and all over the world, went to Wal-Mart today to buy ammo for my guns, the only thing that was left was the 22 CCI mini mags that I wanted and the guy said they where just stocked last night!

NO 357 or 45 was on the self, the guy told me that ALL ammo was on hold to order for Wal-Mart....Get a clue! Something is going on here, and it is not a good sign IMO

http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/
They have all the good stuff and good prices.
They have been way behind in shipping ever since the result of the elections.

I understand, and guns are flying of the shelfs all over the county.....I know a few gun dealers and everything they need and people want, in my neck of the woods are on back order, and its the same all over the USA from what I have seen!

I am well armed and don't need anything, but some folks might need to think about it? JMO

[HDRDR]

  for the link

[Deye76]

"Contractors should be held to strict performance standards"

I don't think the Feds will be any better at overseeing than the states. Look at the $600.00 allen wrenches & $1000.00 toilet seats that Gov't contractors provide.

I do agree that contractors need a whole lot of oversight and should gaurantee their work.

[76shuvlinoff]

http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/
They have all the good stuff and good prices.
They have been way behind in shipping ever since the result of the elections.

and I believe you can get an email notification when the product you want is available

[HIPPO]

"Contractors should be held to strict performance standards"

I don't think the Feds will be any better at overseeing than the states. Look at the $600.00 allen wrenches & $1000.00 toilet seats that Gov't contractors provide.

I do agree that contractors need a whole lot of oversight and should gaurantee their work.

No, the feds aren't any better. The point is that every layer, especially politically appointed ones, is going to steal and misdirect a certain % of funds. At least by eliminating state, county and city entities from the control loop we minimize the theft.

While personally I'm totally against any sort of stimulus, which basically is just a way to push liabilities on out children, at the very least the waste of resources should be distributed to the maximum number of people and they should be forced to actually work for it.

[Deye76]

"forced to work for it"
Agree.

Also I'm with you on the debt that the younger generation will be faced with.

[Princess Butt]

A big part of our job is contractor oversight. You wouldn't believe the crap we find in our corner of the world. 

Yes, there are some bad ones out there, and there are some good ones. We've dealt with both.

BnEUC

[verson22]

The USofA is going to be having a civil war by the summer of 2010 according to that Russian guy so don't worry about the stimulus package.         The Mayans say the worlds ending in 2012 so it'll be a short war.

[96flhpi]

LOL - The Mayans, the ancient Chinese, and some other group all have the world ending 12/21/12.  Is that what the Rush song meant

[HIPPO]

The Mayans claimed the end of the world in 2012.

They had the trend right, but real lousy timing.

They died off a long time ago.

[wholehog]

wayzalot,
A few years ago, New Balance shoes pledged to keep at least 25% of their manufacturing here in America. That doesn't sound like much, but it's a lot more than Nike, Reebok, etc were doing at the time. Perhaps still is. I believe that if people stopped buying other brands and bought New Balance, and made it known that they did so because of the USA manufacturing, the other brands would soon follow suit.

I buy shoes from them.....one pair had a problem and I complained even though they were nearly worn out....got a free new pair from them because they said that they didn't meet their quality standards....they got my business

[apes]

I suspect If the Govt would subcontract the border patrol I suspect that Blackwater International, the Blan and the Brotherhood could seal it up real quick up the borders

[02roadcling]

illegal getting arrested? The lady wearing the US Border Patrol jacket was holding her hand to her ear and watching across the street to the grocery store. She was close to a small grove of trees and I thought maybe it was for cover. Sure enough another bum walked over and handed her a bag of beers, lol. Then into the trees they went and I saw the shopping cart, backpacks, etc.

cling


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[hardonthemerch]

blk-betty,
The saddest part is, after your wife's employer does this, the rest of us will continue to buy from/do business with that comapny as if nothing at all happened. Our grandparents would have boycotted them and raised all kinds of hell. We, on the other hand, are not nearly as strong or as principled. We've done it to ourselves.

Ihaven't read all the posts yet - But when I got to this one, I had to stop and give my "I hear ya!" to Big Dan.

[harborjohn]

A couple hundred bucks isnt going to stimulate anything.  If the Gov really wants to stimulate the American Economy they need to give a one tax break on any(with a limit) american product. Im sure somebody might consider buying a GM/Ford product instead of a Jap/German/Korean product if they knew the whole purchase would be tax deductable.

Why is it that people only bitch about Asian products and not European products? Spending $100k on a Mercedes is a lot of american cash leaving the country.