AIR CLEANERS ?

[crazy joe]

I was reading a post last week...... someone added,,,,,,
(this is not a post about K&N or any other air filter, if you feel this is a topic of interest, do create another post.)  So now I'm curious and starting this one.
Are there better air filters then K&N's   I thought they were about the best,
maybe not?    Any feed back?

[Milehog]

Oiled cotton gauze (K&N) filters do offer low air restriction which is great when the throttle is wide open. There is a price though. They have been shown to let more silica and other particulate through than dry elements do.
I'm currently running an Amsoil Nano Fiber element. The throttle seems to be cleaner than when the K&N was in place.

[harleyjt]

Seems to me that if you increase air flow.... you're also going to increase dirt flow.  I'm sure the K&N and other similar hi-flow filters do a wonderful job of catching rocks..... but wtf do I know.   
jt

[Milehog]

A conventional paper filter element with the same flow as the K&N, while it may have to be a little largar, will admit less particulate.
Sorry, i'm not going to provide the data to back this up but it can be found on the web.

[Faast Ed]

Me thinks that when "particulate" get that small, the damage they cause is minimal.

Not into that Amsoil/Mary Kay stuff.

[06RoadGlider]

I am also running K+N high flow and like your as I would think the more crap you can keep your engine from being exposed to the better, longer it will perform with less wear.
thanks to all for there input JJ

[skeets]

I don't know for sure but K&N on the old bike and had boucoup miles on that old Honda, kid tore it down after he bought it for a winter project, and told me later that the motor looked great inside.. Now  Little Red has had a K&N since she was new (01) and she is no garage queen I might add. The filter gets cleaned and oiled every oil change,, no need to really,, More air in = more air out=more power or so it seems,,Just MHO you understand

[Old Crow]

They say that the K&N works better after it's gotten a bit dirty.  I usually do mine once a year...or about every 12k miles.

[CrazyRay]

They say that the K&N works better after it's gotten a bit dirty.  I usually do mine once a year...or about every 12k miles.

... better at collecting dirt maybe, but air flow can't possibly be as good.

[Sonny S.]

Are there better air filters then K&N's ?

Amsoil Nano Fiber element. 

Bottom line regardless of what anyone wants to believe is..... as stated, an oiled cotton gauze filter is not the best choice for actually filtering air. Actually, it's about the worst. Like it or not...it's true. The K&N filter does what it's designed to do....allow hi amounts of air to flow through it.
Hey, I run K&N filters too, but I do so knowing it is what it is.

Before you doubt the quality of the Amsoil filter... search " Synthetic Nano Fiber filtration."  It's what is used in a lot of Industrial air compressors, Tractor trailers, M1 Abrams tanks, turbine filters.
You might not like the name Amsoil but their filters are top notch.

ED,   Amsoil/Mary Kay ? 

[Memnar]

The Cummins diesel forum I go to also does not like the K&N air filters.

Some have stated on that forum that putting a K&N on the Cummins diesel voided the warranty when they tried to get service later....

[Bakon]

Nothing against the filters, but the Amsoil Mary Kay line was the funniest I read in here.

[apendejo]

Me thinks that when "particulate" get that small, the damage they cause is minimal.

Not into that Amsoil/Mary Kay stuff.

I am thinking that was a goof on the "multi-level marketing" thing associated with those products.
AP

[Sonny S.]

Me thinks that when "particulate" get that small, the damage they cause is minimal.

Not into that Amsoil/Mary Kay stuff.

I am thinking that was a goof on the "multi-level marketing" thing associated with those products.
AP

Yeah it was but....jeez, BFD !    I don't personally feel threatened by the way any of them market their products....guess some do.
Heck, look at some of the tactics used on the Harley forums....lotta BS there.
I'd rather buy from any one of those MLM company's than give $1 to WalMart. Funny how most think WalMart is the greatest thing since sliced bread though....yeah there's an honest, wholesome company standing for all that's good and American.
ok, getting off track

[Panzer]

Is there a Tupperwear filter available ??

[Sonny S.]

Is there a Tupperwear filter available ??

No, they make the filter cover ....duh   

[Bakon]

Didn't know that. Just gave Mike $50 for a cover for my Zippers filter. ALways one step behind.

[crazy joe]

So if there's a better one   what brand     any engine guys want to pipe in?
What I do know is a dirty air cleaner   cleans better then a clean air cleaner

[ElPaso 52]

Check this.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/airfilter/airtest3.htm

[Sonny S.]

Check this.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/airfilter/airtest3.htm

that study is outdated. It doesn't show the Amsoil EA nano fiber filters. Does tell ya a lot about the K&N though, and they have'nt changed

[egstandard]

Anybody using the Amsoil EA nano air filter got a part number for twin cam? I couldn't find it on their site.

[Deye76]

If your worried about fine particulates you can always change your oil more often. I run a K&N air filter (oil filter too) and Blackstone informed me to lengthen my oil change intervals. So the K&N must be doing it's job.
I'm with FastEd, no scamsoil/marykay for me either.

[Sonny S.]

Anybody using the Amsoil EA nano air filter got a part number for twin cam? I couldn't find it on their site.

Look here :    https://www.amsoil.com/AmsoilLookups/PowerSportsLookup.aspx

If your worried about fine particulates you can always change your oil more often. I run a K&N air filter (oil filter too) and Blackstone informed me to lengthen my oil change intervals. So the K&N must be doing it's job.
I'm with FastEd, no scamsoil/marykay for me either.

yup...it's a scam     Deye, you fraid somebody is gonna take your money, and not give you your oil ?   
wait, I got it..... it's not really motor oil it's EVOO and your motor will blow up 

just teasin ya...

[harleyjt]

If your worried about fine particulates you can always change your oil more often. I run a K&N air filter (oil filter too) and Blackstone informed me to lengthen my oil change intervals. So the K&N must be doing it's job.
I'm with FastEd, no scamsoil/marykay for me either.

Changing the oil doesn't help clean out the dirt in the top end that made it through a low restriction air filter and into the intake system.  The dirt - even the fine stuff - acts like sandpaper on the cylinder walls and rings and causes premature and excessive wear.  In diesel terminology, its called a "sanded" engine.  Low compression and excessive blowby and excessive oil consumption is the result.  The engine becomes a great boat anchor.
jt

[Milehog]

Never mind that the particulate goes through the top end before it ends up in the oil. 

[harleyjt]

Never mind that the particulate goes through the top end before it ends up in the oil. 

My point is the damage is already done.
jt

[egstandard]

Thanks Sonny, buy it won't let me enter my year and engine size. 07 only is listed. My buddy is a dealer so I'll let him look it up. Thanks again.

[crazy joe]

In diesel terminology, its called a "sanded" engine

I thought it was called dusting or dusted.

[Milehog]

Never mind that the particulate goes through the top end before it ends up in the oil. 

My point is the damage is already done.
jt

I agree with you. My quip was aimed at the marykay contingent.

[FSG]

In diesel terminology, its called a "sanded" engine

I thought it was called dusting or dusted.

In Oz it's referred to as a "dusted" engine and having just fielded 52 of the new Toyota V8 Turbos I know we've got problems ahead as the air filtering system on the new V8's is a POS in comparison to what was/is on the earlier 75, 79 & 100 Series 6cyl Diesels.

[harleyjt]

In diesel terminology, its called a "sanded" engine

I thought it was called dusting or dusted.

Actually, you're right, I think dusted is used more often than sanded.  I hear both.
jt

[crazy joe]

So I guess a drop in filter is better?  Looking at the test that ELPASO 52 Posted
I don't really see that much difference in the filters tested ( unless a little is a lot)

[Sonny S.]

what is your goal...... getting as much HP as you can or air filtration ?

[Norton Commando]

That's right - if your goal is more HP, then a K & N filter is a good choice. If, however, your goal is minimizing engine wear as much as possible, then K & N is not so good.

[apendejo]

I don't get it, guys building big hotrod motors that are on the bleeding edge, and worried about an airfilter that may or may not make the difference between a 75k mile motor and a 100k mile motor. I think 1 well timed missed shift could potentially cause more motor damage than even the most marginal of airfilters.
Ok, who makes a pleated paper filter that fits in place of the K&N in a S/E aircleaner setup.
AP

[crazy joe]

I want what's best for my engine     but really folks I thought K&N filters were best at filtering
didn't really think about the hi performace part.

[Memnar]

In diesel terminology, its called a "sanded" engine

I thought it was called dusting or dusted.

In Oz it's referred to as a "dusted" engine and having just fielded 52 of the new Toyota V8 Turbos I know we've got problems ahead as the air filtering system on the new V8's is a POS in comparison to what was/is on the earlier 75, 79 & 100 Series 6cyl Diesels.

Not to steal the post but are you talking about a new diesel engine for the Toyota Tundra?

[cactuscruiser]

Yup...I went thru this same process about K&N vs paper filters back when I was modding my engine. I was backwards thought in that I did the cams first, pipes second, and held out for almost a year before I added a Arlen Ness BS1. Today I have no doubt that the cams were the only noticible "seat of the pants"  power modification I made. For most of us 88 or even 95 inchers, you will not benefit from a hi flow filter unless you are "wide open throttle". For the most part, anything less than WOT and it is the throttle plate that is your air restriction. But hey, everyone else has one, looks cool, and it is the perceived notion of more power that makes most of us install them. When I did my research on the K&N filtering "marketing" I was reading everything from ISO 5011 testing to testing on BITOG. Many forums claim that after filtering as little as 180 grams of dust, the K&N style filters were no better in airflow than a standard paper filter. Yea, for most people, depending on where you live, poor filtering is no big deal. For those of us that live in the beautiful southwest, land of dust/sand storms and the usual desert sand blowing across the highways, I do wonder if it was a good idea or not switching to a oiled gauze vs a paper filter. 

[FSG]

Not to steal the post but are you talking about a new diesel engine for the Toyota Tundra?

No the Tundra isn't available in Oz.  I'm referring to the 4.5 litre V8 turbo diesel engine fitted to the new Landcruiser 70 Series.

Here's a pic of some of our new 4WD's kitted with Lights, Bull Bars, Beacons, VHF & UHF Radios and Suspension Kits ready to go to the field.
Note the Donaldson Full-View Pre-Cleaners.



Below are pix of the Troopie, Wagon and Trayback from the Toyota Site.

[Sonny S.]

Ok, who makes a pleated paper filter that fits in place of the K&N in a S/E aircleaner setup.

# EaAM25
https://www.amsoil.com/products/ea_filters/EaAM_Filter_Specs.pdf

Nanofiber Basics
Because the nanofibers in AMSOIL Ea Motorcycle Air Filter media are so small, there are more pores per square inch, allowing for higher dirt-holding capacity and lower pressure drop compared to traditional filter medias. Thinner media fibers produce more uniform pore size distribution, improving the filter’s overall ability to capture and retain particles.

Air Filtration Basics
An engine requires air for combustion, but the air drawn in through the induction system is loaded with contaminants. There are over 400 tons of suspended dirt and other contaminants in a cubic mile of air over a typical city. The concentration can be even higher in rural areas where there is frequent travel on unpaved roads. The dirt and contaminants drawn into an engine from the air are the leading causes of engine wear.

The function of the air filter is to trap and hold these wear causing contaminants without restricting air flow. As the filter traps more and more contaminants, air flow becomes restricted, smothering the engine and diminishing performance. The more wear causing contaminants a filtration media traps and holds, while still allowing optimum air flow, the better the filtration media.

The nanofiber technology used in AMSOIL Ea Filters surpasses all other technology in efficiency, capacity and service life. With AMSOIL Ea Air Filters, dust and submicron particles remain on the surface and are trapped in the nanofibers, preventing particles from lodging in the filter media depth. This produces higher efficiency and higher capacity, extending engine and filter life and reducing engine wear.


Superior Filtration
The synthetic nanofiber media featured in AMSOIL Ea Motorcycle Air Filters have sub-micron diameters and small inter-fiber spaces, resulting in more contaminants being captured on the surface of the media and lower restriction. Cellulose, wetted gauze and foam filters have larger spaces between the media that cause contaminants to load in the depth of the filter, resulting in airflow path plugging, higher restriction and lower capacity.


Cleaning Instructions
AMSOIL Ea Motorcycle Air Filters are cleaned in the same manner as AMSOIL Ea Air Filters for cars and light trucks: with a vacuum or shop air. To clean with a vacuum, place the filter on a flat surface and carefully vacuum the filter media on the dirty side where the incoming airflow enters the filter. To clean with shop air, hold the filter with one hand and carefully blow the filter media at a 45-degree angle on the clean side of the filter using low-pressure (15 to 20 psi) shop air. Using too much air pressure will damage the filter media.

Superior Alternative
AMSOIL is producing an initial offering of eight Ea Motorcycle Air Filters manufactured for the most popular Harley Davidson models from the years 1988 to 2006, including motorcycles equipped with S&S carburetors and air cleaner housings.

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AMSOIL Ea Air Filters are the most efficient filters available. Ea Air Filters’ synthetic nanofiber media removes 5 times more dust than traditional cellulose filter media alone and 50 times more dust than wet gauze filter media. AMSOIL Ea Air Filters have a service life of 100,000 miles or four years, whichever comes first.

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AMSOIL Ea Air Filters allow more airflow than filters that use cellulose media alone. Cellulose fibers are larger than nanofibers, and have larger spaces between the fibers, causing contaminants to load in the depth of the media and plug the airflow path, which results in higher restriction and less capacity. The synthetic nanofibers in EaA Filter media have submicron diameters and small interfiber spaces, which result in more contaminants being captured on the surface of the media and lower restriction.

More Capacity
AMSOIL Ea Air Filters hold up to two and a half times more contaminants than cellulose air filters. Since the nanofibers in the media are so small there are more pores per square inch, allowing for higher dirt-holding capacity and lower pressure drop when compared to cellulose filter media alone. Thinner media fibers produce more uniform pore size distribution, improving the filter’s overall quality and ability to capture and retain particles. Testing shows that Ea Air Filters hold 15 times more contaminants than a wet gauze type filter.