Master Tune Data Recording Prerequisites? LONG!

[WVULTRA]

Herko, Scotty, Tuners:

Wanted to start a new thread because I'm still confused concerning what the CLB Tables should be set to prior to doing a Data Recording while riding the bike.

Herko, you made mention in a previous post about this specifically:

CLB = Closed Loop Bias Table.
450 mV equates to 14.7 (stoich for gasoline).
Increasing (biasing) this value will maintain a richer value.
Something in the high 700's seems to work good. This will yield approx 14.2/14.3 in Closed Loop.
You want to set this biased value before you begin the V-Tune process.

More info in the help files: Contents/Using Master Tune/Closed Loop Operation

I have also read/seen this many times, and we've discussed this before.  It appears that prior to doing a data recording, we are setting AFRs to 14.6 to turn on Closed Loop everywhere except 90 & 100 MAP.  Also it's important to reset the AFVs while loading the map.  Seems we're wanting to get that baseline right before getting started.  As I stated earlier, from what I had read/heard setting the CLB tables to a richer setting if desired should be done before doing the Data Recording(s).  And this made sense to me.

However, after reading the particular Master Tune Help files, I found this:

Tuning using VTune:
VTune is an automated VE table calibrator, and requires the use of TTS MT7 calibrations along with DataMaster-HD to collect VE data, and the TTS VTune software to process this data and merge it with the MT7 calibration file.  Refer to the DataMaster Help section "Recording VTune Data" for details on collecting VTUNE data. 

To set up a calibration for VTune data collection, start with a MT7 calibration that is a close match for the vehicle.  Then, set all the AFR table entries to exactly 14.6 with the exception of 90 kPa and higher which should be left at the factory settings.  This will force the ECM to maintain closed-loop operation over a very wide operational range. 

Next, set the closed-loop bias tables to 450 mV for all cells.  This establishes a constant reference point for all O2 data.

A few months ago, I had posted this to Steve Cole on another forum that he was posting to:

As you're aware, many riders have modified their map's CLB Tables to a max 798 setting to help cool things down a bit further especially while sitting still/idling or while getting stuck in stop/go traffic during summer heat conditions.

Since we are to set the AFR Tables to 14.6 in all cells except 90&100 columns prior to doing the Data Recordings for VTune conversion, would you suggest we also set the CLB tables back to the base/stock map setting? Or will leaving the CLB settings set to richer before recording improve the VEs during conversion to run a bit richer in the desired columns to improve stopped and/or stop-and-go operation?

And Steve's reply:

Set the CLB table to what you want it to be when finished with the tune. So if you want the finial tune to be 698 mv set it there before you start doing V-tune recordings. While I understand people are doing it I do not really know how much it helps but it will hurt the mileage some that's for sure. I like to set the CLB to 500 mv myself and tune the bike. If it needs to be richer than that I change the AFR value after the VE are set. This allows the bike to run best at cruise and anywhere else you want because you can have a true closed loop cruise near Stoich and richer where you need it.

Hopefully, after reading this post, you Tuners/Experienced Recorders can understand my confusion and offer some insight on setting the CLBs prior to recording.  My area weather is declining rapidly, and the chances of getting some really good riding Recordings are limited.

Thanks to any input you can offer!

[Herko]

Ben,
Yes, I remember some confusion early on as well...i.e.to set CLB's before or after.

Here's a quote from SC later in the game that I have been comfortable with:
What you all need to understand is that a switching type O2 sensor like the one HD uses as do many auto manufactures has a very narrow range in which it works. Look at how steep the curve is in the area that they measure. This gives you a large change in a very narrow area. The charts are only there to give an idea of how it works and how sensitive they are for a little change in there operating range. You must set the CLB table prior to using V-tune for it to be correct.

Link: http://www.hdforums.com/forum/showpost.php?p=3967476&postcount=456

Doc 1 has concurred with setting them prior to the tune from the beginning of these discussions.

I will have to pull out some notes or consult with Doc again, but IIRC, the AFV's are tweaking the VE tables to find/stabilize on the "biased" voltage. The recommended VE's in the Generate Map tables are based on the requested richer AFR. One could V-Tune with all 450's (and/or canned mV's) set in the CLB tables, then set CLB's to say 796 after...you would then be reliant upon the reach of the AFV's alone. Doc, are you looking in?...maybe elaborate??

Also when V-Tuning on the Dyno...setting the CLB's prior makes for an overall cooler V-Tune run session...which can give the engine a bit of a workout in the high load (MAP) areas.

[WVULTRA]

John:

I remember seeing that post also.  I knew it had been discussed on several posts, and your reasons for setting them prior to the Dyno is very understandable.

I wonder if Steve's posts/replies have been from his experience using a Dyno vs. a riding Recording..........don't know if there would actually be any difference............but the statement (in the Help File) about setting the CLBs to 450mV immediately precedes riding the vehicle with a recommended technique. 

Best Regards, and thanks for your reply!

Ben

[ToBeFrank]

One thing to keep in mind when you set your AFRs in your final map after doing the VTune, the AFRs are now offset. For example, you set your CLB to get you 14.2 AFR, and you tune in 80 MAP with VTune set at 14.6. Then if you want 80 MAP to be at 13.0 in your final map you should set the AFR table to 13.4.

[WVULTRA]

One thing to keep in mind when you set your AFRs in your final map after doing the VTune, the AFRs are now offset. For example, you set your CLB to get you 14.2 AFR, and you tune in 80 MAP with VTune set at 14.6. Then if you want 80 MAP to be at 13.0 in your final map you should set the AFR table to 13.4.

Frank:

I understand the offset.  Am I correct in assuming that the offset would only be applied to cells that were correctly sampled (green) during the data recording, and these same cells would be the ones shown being modified while reviewing the generated tune via V-Tune software? 

Thanks for your feedback!

Ben

[Herko]

Ben,
Not Frank, but all the cells in the AFR Table that you want to remain in Closed Loop, use the 14.6 (switching) number. As you know these areas of operation (cells) will maintain the 14.2,14.4 or whatever biasing was set in with the help of the ongoing Closed Loop operation.
All the other cells in that table (Open Loop), use the offset number...and IMO even in the areas that would correspond to blended VE's to keep things commensurate.