Torque , to lube or not

[War Horse]

Catching up on some overdue reading I came across this interesting article from the November issue of Motor Magazine, I know this is a automotive mag. , however it applies to all engines.

Interestingly it deals with some items that some of us were taught at a factory level as the correct way to do things, but as technology moves forward the opposite is what becomes the norm, I have somewhat of a problem with this article in so many different ways, but figured it would be of interest to some folks here. Lets hear your thoughts on this.

http://www.motor.com/article.asp?article_ID=1842

[Dogmeat]

Well, I dunno, but I have used antiseize on spark plugs on my HD for many years, and will prolly continue to do so,
as I've had no problems with misfiring, or any other reason not to keep using it.

[Eleft36]

This is my own experience;

Never seize made a lot of resistance to the removal of plugs on my TC, it also seemed to effect the plug thread starting in the head and felt like "galling".

A quick shot of carb cleaner and the plug would start easier, the never seize was hardening in the threads.

I cleaned off the never seize and used a drop of synthetic oil on the plug threads they went in all the way by fingers, torqued to 12ft lb, they come out as easy.

Comment:
As for arcing down the side in the article, I'd say the plug had to have crack or a scratch trail in the porcelain filled with a conductive material.
If miss firing was caused internally by never seize the tech had to be a sloppy one.
Al

[92flhtcu]

Have always used a small amount on the first few threads, applied carefully, it sorta works it way up the threads as you install it. Used religiously in outr Euro-car shop and have always used on everything i work on personally, outboards, mowers, blowers, biokes, etc. It does affect torque value as stated but still a feeling thing for me
Just my O-2

Rob
and have always used 3M silicone paste/dielectric lube on the outside of the plugs as well

[ST40]

I use anti-seize on 2 or 300 spark plugs a year in my shop, mostly air cooled engines.   I did notice on my Shovelhead a few years ago that removing them seemed way too tight.  Someone (on this forum, I think) suggested not to use very much, and let it spread itself along the threads when spinning them in.  That made a lot of difference and the problem went away.  The equipment I work on in the shop mostly belongs to regular customers, and the plugs come out effortlessly for the most part.  I'm gonna continue to use it till I find something better, cause I see way more thread problems on heads that had dry threads.     Marty

[Deye76]

Less is more.... with anti-sieze.

[WML57]

I believe the base ingredient in standard anti-seize is powdered aluminum, which if this is the case then there should be no additional resistance since the head itself is aluminum.

Mark.

[fourthgear]

I believe the base ingredient in standard anti-seize is powdered aluminum, which if this is the case then there should be no additional resistance since the head itself is aluminum.

Mark.

I always thought it was graphite, learn some thing new every day.

[Jeffd]

well I beleive it is mostly grease with either copper or aluminum and a little graphite mixed in lol

[Tsani]

I believe the base ingredient in standard anti-seize is powdered aluminum, which if this is the case then there should be no additional resistance since the head itself is aluminum.

Mark.

Depends on the brand, type and even heat range. Permatex is high in aluminum. But I also use stuff that is higher in nickel content and also use one that is copper based. And those two I never have an issue wth unless I get it on my fingers, clothes, etc.

[wholehog]

2 types of antiseize -- aluminum and copper...yeah nickel also

[76shuvlinoff]

 We use copper based on 300F to almost 600F steel to steel applications torqued at 300 ft lbs and up.

I've had my shovel for 17 seasons and I have always used a small dab of the aluminum stuff on the first threads of the plugs. I've been running an electronic ignition and dual plugs on that bike for over 25,000 miles now. No issues related to Anti-seize.

The Autolite 4265 plugs I use on the shovel have the metal crush gasket, you can feel when that gives and bottoms out, at least I think I can. If I am reinstalling a used plug I just don't get all apesh*t with it.

- Mark

[mkd]

in my 2005 eglide i have used anti seaze and noticed the rear cyl plug does go in and out with some resistance.the front cyl plug installs with just the fingers till bottomed out.i tried to remove all the antiseaze in both cyl plug holes and then used a dab of motor oil on the plugs.the oil seams to not have the drag or resistance as was present with the antiseaze on the threads.i beleave too much antisease is not good.honda car mechanic for years say they install all their spark plugs dry and tq to 13 lbs and never use anything on the threads.the plugs are designed to last 100,000 miles.my son's 2002 civic has 55,000 miles and i just changed the original plugs after 9 years. you could spin them out by hand once broke loose and the new ones turned in with rubber tubing till they seated.

[Golfman]

Well, I've never heard that about anti-seize on plugs before, and have used it ever since the heads were aluminum. Perhaps I will switch to a dab of oil ;and if, as they say, it may distort the torque setting, just use a lesser torque setting and see how that works. That's hard for me to do because I almost always use slightly more torque than is required by the specs - on EVERYTHING, except maybe head bolts and bearing caps...........and I probably put too much anti-seize on the threads, but have not had a plug problem - ever.
Those who have used a dab of oil, have you found they come out harder ? Does continuous engine heat on the oiled threads cause the oil coating to breakdown and become hard or sludge-like?
On a similar question , it took me years to realize the advantages of the resistance plug wires to allow the coil to build greater energy before firing the plug. Then when I went to purchase the better S.E. wires, and found they were solid core - go figure ?!?!?! That was back in 2003 - has that changed?

[Kettoo]

My HD shop manual says to use anti-sieze. I use it sparingly. So far no problems.

[moose]

I've used anti sieze for years and years with no problem

I also use it on the screws that hold on the derby cover put some on the bottom of the head of the screw and they come off eazy you will never have to drill them out because they galled

[Princess Butt]

I've been using anti-seize since the 1980's. I've always used just a small dab of it on spark plug threads, since I figured if I got anything all over the end of the spark plug, it would interfere with firing.

One of the first lessons I had about spark plugs was to be careful. When you tighten them, make sure your wrench is on them square; a socket with an extension and a ratchet handle provides a lot of leverage, and you can easily crack the ceramic on a plug. I cracked one when I was 13 years old, and I don't think I've made that mistake since then.

If you don't have anti-seize, you should use oil or a small dab of grease. Always thread in by hand, and if it's in a deep well like a lot of modern engines, use a piece of rubber fuel hose slipped over the end of the plug.

[War Horse]

Well I see most here are on the same page as I am, I believe that on anything that has plugs in it for 100K is going to get Anti-seize, since I do get return customers and dont want to deal with a stuck or broken plug.

That being said , since our bikes get plugs replaced at fairy short intervals the dry method might be a good rule to follow.

Since torque is a measurement of resistance and the specs call for dry install the probability of thread deformation of the plug and/or the head aren't worth the trade off of possible electrolysis.

BTW I too have noticed on the twinky that the plugs seem sticky coming out, or its possible that plug manufactures are getting cheap and thread deformation is a byproduct . Not sure , I'm just speculating.

[JDhog211]

This is my own experience;

Never seize made a lot of resistance to the removal of plugs on my TC, it also seemed to effect the plug thread starting in the head and felt like "galling".

A quick shot of carb cleaner and the plug would start easier, the never seize was hardening in the threads.

I cleaned off the never seize and used a drop of synthetic oil on the plug threads they went in all the way by fingers, torqued to 12ft lb, they come out as easy.

Comment:
As for arcing down the side in the article, I'd say the plug had to have crack or a scratch trail in the porcelain filled with a conductive material.
If miss firing was caused internally by never seize the tech had to be a sloppy one.
Al

I had the same experience with my TC.  With just the small amount of anti sieze I ran into the same problems as Eleft 36. Since I have completely cleaned off my plugs and holes with brake cleaner and applied a drop of synthetic oil to the threads. Man........what a difference, you can turn them in all the way to the seat by hand, and they come out just as easy.

Jd hog

[HarleyFranco]

a squirt of WD-40 on the plug threads and a squirt in the plug hole and it works fine

Frank

[88b]

I believe the base ingredient in standard anti-seize is powdered aluminum, which if this is the case then there should be no additional resistance since the head itself is aluminum.

Mark.

that's what Snap on never sieze is. I just finished up an 11 year old tin. I used to work for Ford Europe and with the twin coam motors introduced in 1990 they had problems with the plugs ripping the threads out of the head, untill they started using never sieze.

[Pilgrim]

That being said , since our bikes get plugs replaced at fairy short intervals the dry method might be a good rule to follow.

Since torque is a measurement of resistance and the specs call for dry install the probability of thread deformation of the plug and/or the head aren't worth the trade off of possible electrolysis.

If you're going to use a torque wrench on plugs (and I don't - prefer the educated wrist) then make it a meaningful exercise.  Which it isn't, if you're going to use anti-seize or any other lubricant. Unless otherwise stated, torque values are based on dry threads and contact surfaces.

Some people's problems are caused by trying to take the plugs out while the engine is hot.  That's inviting disaster unless you're working on an iron head.

I pull my plugs for a look with every oil change (after the engine cools.) That's at least three times a year, so they never have a chance to seize up.

Cross-threading is another subject, though  .

Pilgrim 

[Admiral Akbar]

Some people's problems are caused by trying to take the plugs out while the engine is hot.  That's inviting disaster unless you're working on an iron head.

Heck, That's one of the tricks I use to pull plugs that are stuck.. The coefficient of expansion is higher for aluminum then it is for steel..Plug will loosen up..  Max

[Admiral Akbar]

Now treading em in while hot...  Max

[Jeffd]

I have always thought something was needed on two dissimilar metals to prevent galling.