and now for a front end question

[Little Al]

With everyone here's help I'm about 98% sure my frame is an original 1951.

I have a 1971 swingarm frame and took off of it a complete front end, forks, trees, bearings, etc.

My questions are:
1) is it possible that the trees would fit the '51 frame with standard geometry (in other words, are the trees the same)?
2) for my '54 FL, anyone know the distance between the sliders?
3) for my '54 FL, anyone know the over all length of the forks?

the front end I have had a working mechanical brake (left side if I remember correctly) and standard star hubbed wheels.

I added this after posting:
After reading page 52 of Palmer's I think the forks themselves were the same all the way up through 1977 but that still doesn't answer my question about the trees. Even then I'm making the assumption the trees and/or sliders are either from the original 1954 bike OR from the 1971 frame it was on. Based on what I know of the bike and previous owner I think everything is off the original '54 but I need a way to confirm it. I'm hoping so as it will save me a ton of cash not having to buy a front end. Oh an one last thing, when I stripped everything off that '71 frame it had 2 piece handlebars in a weird (to me) type of black sorta riser.

Guess I'm gonna have to go outside (damn it's cold) and see if there are any part numbers on the trees and/or the sliders...

[Little Al]

alright, I went out into the cold and dark and snow and brought the front end into the kitchen. This is what I've been able to find:

mechanical brake is on the right
the only number I can find is 56120-60 on the top brace of the trees (obviously 1960 & up)
cross referencing that number with V-Twin I come up with V-Twin #24-0751 which lists as a replacement for 56121-48 which is the OEM number in my parts manual for my '54.

so I'm getting the idea that the trees maybe useable but I'd need sliders to have the brake on the left. the sliders I have are in crummy shape so I'd buy them anyway. Still wonder if the geometry of these trees are the same and the bearing sizes will fit my frame. and too, if the headlight & tins, etc. will fit. and if the correct tubes will fit, if the diameters are the same.

geez, I'm getting so confused I'm not even sure what I'm asking for with anymore!

time to go to bed and will re-write this tomorrow! lol

[Scooter]

I have a 1974 triple-tree and tubes bolted right up to my 1954 frame; no problem, no conversion. Don't know about a front brake; the lower legs were turned down.  I've had no front brake since I put this thing together in 1974.

[Speeding Big Twin]

Al, the black sorta riser you described sounds like what H-D refers to as a handlebar clamp and it was first used on Big Twins for 1960. But it was also used earlier than that on Sportsters and Model Ks. I have one on my Panhead (with 1974 Shovelhead triple clamps) and I've also used them on Evos at times.

Depending on the year of your lower triple clamp you may find some very small characters stamped into the left-hand fork stop. If they are there they should consist of a capital letter followed by either three or four numeric characters with the letter corresponding to one or more years.

I have a bare BT fork tube here and the overall length is 20-7/16" (that is without the slider attached). IIRC it is a genuine H-D item and it is standard Panhead length but to be sure maybe someone else could measure one of theirs too.

Even though your front brake below is mounted on the right-hand side I don't think it was originally a right-hand brake because it looks like the cable is in front of the fork leg. If it was a proper FL Glide right-hand drum front brake (used 1969-1971) then the cable would be behind the fork leg, not in front of it. I think your brake is a left-hand item that has been swapped over to the right-hand side and both sliders have probably been swapped around as well. If the brake was mounted back on the left side then the cable would be behind the left fork leg as it was originally. However, I can't tell from the photo whether you have a pre-1967 side plate or a 1967-1968 side plate. For 1967 there were also changes to the bearings, axle, hub, etc and Palmer has some info on wheel hubs on pages 98-100. It also looks like the slider has been trimmed down?     Eric

[Little Al]

Well now I'm even MORE extraordinarily impressed with you guys!

I re-read the confusing mess I wrote last night (ok, so I was keeping warm with some Jack and got a bit carried away, lol) and yet you guys still gave me a cohesive answer.

I believe your right,  the brakes were flipped. I had an earlier picture of the same bike pre-chopped that the PO sent me before I bought it. I can't find it but I remember the brake being on the left (and I'm sober so fairly certain of my memory). Tonight I'll have to check for numbers on brake parts to see if I can determine what year.

actually this whole question started because after a few JD's I had a stroke of genius that I might be able to use the front end I had. The complete fork tubes are 36 inches and I knew a long time ago I couldn't use 'em.

Guess I learned my lesson (but probably not), once I get past 4 JD's, no typing on HTT. lol, at least I didn't attempt to assemble anything...

Thanks guys!

[Little Al]

Just for the curiosity of it, here's a pic of the trees & tubes when I took it off the '71 frame last year. And now I remember about the riser set-up. these were what was on the bike, but he also gave me the (what I called weird) other setup with the 2 piece bars.

[CraigArizona85248]

That is definitely a left side brake setup.  The fork tubes are just swapped side-to-side in the triple trees.  You won't be able to mount a fender on those sliders though.  Someone has shaved off the fender mounts.  Not uncommon practice for the chopper guys.

-Craig

[4DWUDS]

Well, you could mount a fender but it won't be pretty. A few U bolts and some spacers, lasted as long as I could stand look at it. Thank God nobody got pictures of it. Even chrome didn't help it.

[stroker800]

  Those were some good answers,,as far as a fender mount and fender....Tie a bandanna across from tube to tube about 1/2 from tire ,,this will shave off the water quite a bit,,,thinkin of a leather strap from my shovel ,,,,I like the NO fender look but gettin too old to eat all that throw off.
Dave

[Pzokes]

Those front sliders have a value to the international chopper crowd.  I sold a set on Ebay to someone in Australia.

Check the center to center bolt spacing on those early handlebar risers on the picture of the forks that you posted versus the two piece clamp that you have.  The ones in your picture shold have a different spacing.  Does the fork stem on your lower tree have a hole for your fork lock?  If the lower tree is the late style without the hole, you can drill one.

[Little Al]

I've already decided not to use this setup on my '54. Definitely now interested in selling them.

center to center on the risers is 3 1/2 inches
no hole for the lock

so what do you think their worth?

I'm starting to layout for pictures all the stuff I have to sell on eBay. gotta generate some cash to buy the stuff I want/need.

I have quite a few small parts from my '83 FXR (Shovel) and extra or un-needed (by me) parts from the '54 Pan that were given to me my the previous owner. Also have a '71 swing arm frame (chopped), Mikuni carb, this front end, rear juice brake & rear master cylinder and some other stuff.

[Speeding Big Twin]

Pzokes, given that the casting number on Al's top triple clamp is 56120-60 why should the riser bolt spacing in his photo be different to the bolt hole spacing in the handlebar clamp he received for use with two-piece handlebars? As I mentioned above, I have a H-D handlebar clamp on my Panhead with 1974 Shovelhead triple clamps. I am also using a H-D handlebar clamp on my 1999 FXST which still has both its original triple clamps. The centre to centre bolt hole spacing for both my handlebar clamps is 3-1/2" which is the same as Al has now measured regarding the risers in his photo.     Eric

[Pzokes]

Speeding Big Twin,

You are right, they should be the same spacing....I musta had a brain fart.  I do think that Little Al will have to replace his top triple tree, to pre-'60, to use the early style tin on his '54.   

Little Al,

Not sure what they're worth, sometimes I've been surprised, sometimes dissapointed on what stuff will bring on Ebay.

[Little Al]

thanks

I'm gonna start taking pictures and getting stuff up on eBay. there are a few things I'm looking at that I'd like to buy and best way for me to buy is for me to also sell, lol

[Pynzo]

The stock Upper Tree has Riser holes 4-3/4" apart center to center, with no provision for dampeners, these were pressed into the hbar risers.
Tubes are 20-3/8" long, and springs are 19-7/8" long. Tubes should be parkerized steel.

[panz4ever]

Bearing cups changed in 60, so in order to run tin instead of the cowl you need to change the cups. Tins will not line up properly unless you are willing to booger them up, which will look like crap.

[Little Al]

don't wanna screw this one up.

that front end is up for sale on eBay and I'm searching eBay and other sources for the right one.

[Little Al]

Made a pretty decent score on eBay for a complete front end off a '49 and at least I know this one is right. I confirmed upper & lower tree part numbers and a few other parts to confirm and it all seems right. it's all original OEM front end taken off a '49.

complete front mechanical brakes
front fender with all the trim & emblems
complete wheel & tire
all the tins & headlight (although the front tin has the V stripes instead of the horizontal correct for my year)
complete trees & bearings & tubes & cowbells
handlebars with internals on both sides, risers, mirror, cables, switches, etc.
auxiliary driving lights


I'm a happy guy, all for $1100

can't wait until it gets here...

[Pynzo]

If your lower legs are the original '49s, they'll be sand cast and have part numbers cast on the legs above the fender mounts, 45810-49 brake side, and 45812-49 axle clamp side. If these are the legs you get, you have first year only legs, and they won't be correct for your bike. Save them for somebody who's restoring a '49. They have some value to them, and you should be able to recoup some of the loot you paid for the front end, plus have plenty for the smooth polished legs that were stock for your bike. Any lower legs from '50 to '66 will work. My brother in law bought a basket case Pan motor off of ebay once, and it came with a first year Knuckle cam cover. We sold it on ebay for enough to finish up the motor! You never know what you're getting!