TMax

[cardboard]

Need some help from some of the folks here that understand the Thunder-Max a lot more than me.
I have a 2011 FLHTK. Put some stainless fuelmoto header pipes, Supertrapp stouts mufflers and a revolution HF air kit.
Got a TM on it with map 187 in it. I have been on the phone with Randy for a while.
Forgive me cause I have ADD and I'm not a tuner.
My bike at Idle wants to drop from 1024 down into the 800 rpm range where it will start to shake.
Had TM linked into my computer and they said it looked o.k. But I could sit there and watch the rpm drop and the bike shake.
TM wanted to tell me how to adjust the maps. Sorry I have no idea what they was showing me.
Another problem is I'm gettin about 34 mpg on the interstate.
Thought the Tm was suppose to tune and get you better performance and fuel milage also.
What can I do to get my idle better, right now I have it at 1056 to make it idle better and not drop into the 800 rpm range. And get better fuel milage.
If I knew somebody to take it to  so they could show me how to tune it I would. Or if I knew somebody to take map 187 and work on it that would be great too
Thanks for any help.
I have two other buddies that are having the same problems and both are saying the fuel milage is pretty Bad.

[mayor]

can you post your current map?  save the one that's in your bike on your computer, and post it in a response.  You can attach the file by using the attachments function (located right below the dialogue box when replying).

[cardboard]

Here is file #178 that I have been working with. The Idle is set at 1056 to get it to idle better and not be so rough idling after warmup.
The fuel milage is 34.8 mpg approx

Something seems to be wrong with this map, but Zippers does not seem to think so.

Thank You for your help.

[attachment removed after 60 days by system]

[Ajayrk]

 

[mayor]

cardboard, can you post a copy of the actual map that's in the bike?  I want to see what the learned fuelflow offsets are doing. 

[cardboard]

I see folks has posted it. I have no idea how to do it.
I tried to copy the page of it and it would not let me.
Do know you can download the TBW software from Zippers and download the file I uploaded here and look at it. Else wise you need to tell me what to do.
Thanks.

[mayor]

Do know you can download the TBW software from Zippers and download the file I uploaded here and look at it.

yes, I have already looked at the file you posted.  If I read correctly, you have two issues you need help with: idle, and fuel milage.  I wanted to look at the fuelflow offsets (green markers) to see what the auto-tune module was feeding back to the ecm.  Seeing those markers help determine how well the module is doing dialing in the fuel.  Seeing the location of those markers also help in determining where to adjust the afr table to improve milage. 

you need to tell me what to do.

open the dbw software, hook your computer up to your bike,  with the ignition and kill switch on hit the link and monitor buttons at the top of the software page (they will turn green when you are linked up), the software will ask if you want to synchronise the computer with the module- say yes, then hit file/ save as and save that map onto your hard drive in an area that you know where to find it, then attached that map to a reply. 

[cardboard]

Here the file is has (6) at the end for todays date.

[attachment removed after 60 days by system]

[mayor]

that one doesn't have any learned offsets, and the fuelflow boxes doesn't appear to have any yellow markers indicating learned offsets were applied. 

I want to see the map that you have run in your bike, after you ran it in your bike (but before learned offsets were applied).   

[cardboard]

Just said read maps with it hooked up to the TM program and said save to desktop and changed it to (7)

[attachment removed after 60 days by system]

[mayor]

that one's better.   

[mayor]

Cardboard, you willing to do a data recording and send it to me? I see some areas that we may be able to tweek to get better milage, but having some actual data takes the guess work out.

[cardboard]

If I do the collect data, it will let me send it  you instead of Tm

[mayor]

I'll talk you through how to find it on your laptop. It's a little tricky, but not that hard to find.  Once you know where the file is, you can just email it.

[cardboard]

O.K. how you gonna do that.

[mayor]

We handle that after you do a data run. How computer literate are you?

[cardboard]

Don't know how to answer that. I have operated computer for years. But at nearly 62 I tend to forgit.

I can get around oh.

[mayor]

I should be able to help you find the data file then. What computer operating system do you have (xp, vista, 7)?

[cardboard]

Windows 7
I sent you a email if that will help you.

Thanks

[cardboard]

Windows 7
I sent you a email if that will help you.

Thanks

What happened.

[mayor]

Windows 7 is a little trickier for me, I'm a XP guy but I think I can help you find the data run files. Have you done any data runs yet?

I got your email, and will send you a reply so you have my email adress. Probably won't be until tomorrow though.  I'm about done for the night. 

[cardboard]

Tomorrow it is then.
Thanks.

[mayor]

Do you live in an area that you can ride this time of year? Have you ever done a data recording using the Smartlink software yet?

[cardboard]

Yes I can ride as long as it don't rain.
When I did the smartlink, TM says run collect data. Run your bike at like 2000 rpm then 2500 rpm then 3000 rpm and then you send it to them.
Buy you do it with the bike sittin still

I have ridden on the data I posted.
Did it now show you any data from riding it ?
Did you look at map 8 that I posted to see if its any better ?

[mayor]

Yea, I was able to see your learned offsets on the last map you posted.  What I want you to do is do a recording of a normal riding situation, basically just record some data while riding. That will give me the ability to see what afr you are running at, how tight the auto-tune is keeping the afr dialed in, and how well the timing slopes are matching up to your bike.

[cardboard]

The collect Data program in the TM only runs for a few minutes. How can I sit on the bike with the TM plug under the seat.
And use the notebook computer while riding. would that not be tough on the hard drive on the notebook with all the viberation and all.

[Ajayrk]

I'm a Windows 7 user but not and expert, pardon if I am butting in.  I also want to learn more about the TMax so I am following this thread.

If data recordings are saved in the TMax folder with Windows7 they should be under:
Documents\Public Documents\Thunder Heart\TMaxI_Tuner\Monitorlogs\ a date the log was recorded

[mayor]

The collect Data program in the TM only runs for a few minutes.

really, are you sure?  I've not used the Tmax dbw ecm, but I have recorded data on the Tmax gen2 and the only limit to record time was how long the battery lasted on the lap top.  Maybe the data recording is only limited when the end intent is to send the data to Zippers?    

How can I sit on the bike with the TM plug under the seat.

I forgot that the DBW set up is different than the gen2.  On the gen2, you just have to remove the right side panel.  Having never worked with a DBW Tmax, I don't know what to tell you on how to work around this.  Maybe someone else has a solution.  Without some data, everything is guess work.  I see some areas that we can lean out the afr a little, so we may still be able to improve milage without recording data.  here's another Tmax thread that's going on right now that is discussing improving milage without recording data: http://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,47622.0.html

Have you ever checked to make sure that the o2 sensors were well into the exhaust flow stream on those pipes?  sometimes an idle issue with a closed loop system is due to a lack of good data being received by the ecm.  Have you also checked to make sure that you don't have any exhaust leaks?

And use the notebook computer while riding. would that not be tough on the hard drive on the notebook with all the viberation and all.

the vibrations from data recording can be tough on a laptop, but I have well over 1,000 miles of data recording between two bikes/efi systems and my lap top is still alive and kicking.  The key is securing the laptop to minimize movement. 

If data recordings are saved in the TMax folder with Windows7 they should be under:
Documents\Public Documents\Thunder Heart\TMaxI_Tuner\Monitorlogs\ a date the log was recorded

that sounds about right.   

[cardboard]

On the TBW the Thunder-Max Plug is directly on top of the TM which is under the seat. Not on a cord from removing the side panel.
When you run the program collect data it only runs for like 2 1/2 minutes if I remember correctly.
And when its threw it stores it in a pop up file to be transmitted to TM

I have the Fuelmoto stainless header pipes, the came with the bungs welded in. Both 12mm and 18mm bungs.
And the Supertrap Stout mufflers. From the time I have put everything on new it runs the same
Got a buddy with the same setup on his 103 bike, and have another buddy with a 110cu and we are all having about the same problems and non or us are gettin any fuel milage
out of the TM. We all lost fuel milage when we installed it. And we have had Idle problems.
And sometimes when we started with some downloads it would Spit out the TB .
two of us has talked a lot with Zippers Tech support.
They try to blame it on something else.
But if we take the TM off and stick the stock computer back in the problems are gone.

[Ajayrk]

Did you use stock tapered exhaust gaskets or the flat S/E gaskets. 
I have found that the flat S/E gasket don't seal properly on the TC because
the flange will bottom out on the head before it seals and you get a leak.
(The counter bore for the gasket is deeper than an EVO)
That could cause the O2 reading to be off.

[cardboard]

Got Tapered Exhaust in all 3 bikes. Although if'n I remember right Fuelmot said to use SE Gaskets.
We have sprayed stuff at the intake flanges to see if it had a leak. And it didn't
Everthing was tightened down with a digital torque wrench.
Do you think we would have the same problem out of 3 bikes with about the exact same setup?
I personally think there is a bug in the programming.
Zippers says they got the AFR's setup to be used across the U.S.
The fuel up north, is different than the fuel down south, and the fuel in California is different than here.
All I know is the fuel is junk and don't last long and I don't like ethanol in the fuel.

[mayor]

Do you think we would have the same problem out of 3 bikes with about the exact same setup?

do all three bikes have the same pipes?  I doubt that all would have an exhaust leak issue, but if all are running the same pipe there could be an issue with the bung placement/depth that isn't working well with the Tmax.  Just because bungs are welded in my the manufacturer, doesn't mean they are right.  Not saying that's the problem, just saying you should check to make sure that it isn't.  The way these closed loop systems work is simple: it doesn't matter what the afr actually is, only what the ECM is being told that it is.  Meaning, if the ecm is being supplied with bogus data, it makes it's decisions with the bogus data. A closed loop system can easily run a cylinder rich or lean based on bad data, so the key is to make sure that the ecm is being supplied with the best data possible. 

here's one thing that really stuck out to me on the map 7 that you posted:

It's not uncommon for the rear cylinder to have collected less data than the front, but the rear in this case has only collected about 2/3 the data that the front has collected. The front was also correcting the base map more, than the rear.  The rear is an offset of the rear, so this may be ok but it seemed odd to me that the front was much more active in fuel corrections than the rear.  This may be normal, but I think this is a good place to look at the o2 sensor connections and bung depth.  May be nothing, but it's work looking at. 

[Ajayrk]

I personally think there is a bug in the programming.

There could be a bug in the program.
I mentioned the gaskets because they were the root of one of the problems that the TMax had.

I fought a problem with a TMax, and tried all the electronic adjustments and mechanical changes to the mufflers that usually work without any success.
Replaced the flat gaskets with the stock gaskets and the issues were solved. 
Later on there was an issue with the HTS and a poor ground.  Replaced the HTS and repaired the ground fault and problems again solved.

Problems were aggravating but I still like the TMax.

[cardboard]

Put tapered gaskets in myself

[cardboard]

I personally think there is a bug in the programming.

There could be a bug in the program.
I mentioned the gaskets because they were the root of one of the problems that the TMax had.

I fought a problem with a TMax, and tried all the electronic adjustments and mechanical changes to the mufflers that usually work without any success.
Replaced the flat gaskets with the stock gaskets and the issues were solved. 
Later on there was an issue with the HTS and a poor ground.  Replaced the HTS and repaired the ground fault and problems again solved.

Problems were aggravating but I still like the TMax.

ONe bike had V&H power Duals on it, with V&H mufflers. He has more problems.
He took them off and got the Fuelmoto header pipe and 4.5 FM mufflers.
He put in Brand new Tapered Gaskets on his too.

The other bike has the same  header pipe and had his mufflers done by american customs.
He said he used new tapered gaskets.
I have gone in and wrote the learned IAC codes and cleared them. I also have the learning adjustment at 10% instead of 5%
What should I do now. Two of us has been changing to different maps, and runing the bikes for a year now.
Still poor fuel milage .
If my buddy takes the TM off his bike and puts the stock ECM back on with just a download he gets like 42-44mpg with his 110cu motor on his SG.
Right now he gets about 34 mpg if that.

And yes we have checked to make sure the 02 sensors are tight. I put mine in myself.

I have installed the TM in about 8 bikes

[cardboard]

Don't know if you have seen a set of Fuelmoto Jackpot stainless header pipes. But in case you have not here they are.

http://www.jackpotmufflers.com/headpipes.htm

[mayor]

What should I do now. Two of us has been changing to different maps, and runing the bikes for a year now.
Still poor fuel milage .

Let's try tweeking the afr tables a little to see if we can get some better mileage for you.  I saw the afr tables are really set rich in the early TPS settings points throughout the typical riding ranges.  I attached a map I want you to try.  I already wrote your learned offsets to this map. 

Here's an idea of some of the changes I made (you can use the yellow markers for reference to where the settings were):

if you look at where the base map was, the lower TPS settings were quite rich.  I'm not sure if they did this on purpose to improve drive ability in these ranges or not, but this should improve milage if the richer setting is not needed.  I made adjustments to quite a few of the afr tables, so it may take a little while for the auto-tune module to get everything dialed back in.  If you run into any issues with how the bike is running, try to make a mental note of what rpm the trouble is occurring and we will regroup from there. 

[attachment removed after 60 days by system]

[cardboard]

Man Thanks. I'm  kinda all excited again
Been workin on this for a year..
Already installed the map you posted  in my bike.
Gonna ride to a Academy Saturday to get some shoes. Haven't bought any in a couple years.
Its 50 miles  there and ride around before I come back.
Ready to see how the program work.
Thanks Mayor. I really appreciate your help
Got my fingers crossed hoping it makes a difference.
CAn't wait.

[mayor]

no problem.  Take mental notes if anything doesn't feel quite right.  I doubt you notice, but you never no. 

[cardboard]

I'll try to take it on a test ride first. I got a few things I need to do 1st.

Let her idle till she reached 285* earlier after I installed the map.

Thanks for the help. I can't wait to try her out this weekend.
Will let you know how it goes.

[mayor]

I haven't worked with a Tmax dbw yet but I'm curious there's no IAC on a dbw, so why run it to temp? 

[cardboard]

I haven't worked with a Tmax dbw yet but I'm curious there's no IAC on a dbw, so why run it to temp?

I've installed TM on bikes for about 5 yrs.
That is what I have always done so the bike can learn where everything is. The TPS and ,All the sensors .
Just like turing the switch on and off 3 times for 30 seconds.
Since I have been doing the TBW I still do it the same.

[Admiral Akbar]

It's not uncommon for the rear cylinder to have collected less data than the front, but the rear in this case has only collected about 2/3 the data that the front has collected.

How does this happen?? Rear cylinder runs slower then the front?

Max

[Coyote]

Front cylinder angles forward which is faster than the rear. Duh! (Coyote is going back to the shallow end now)

[mayor]

I don't know why it does that, just that it does based on looking at the data points collected on quite a few Tmax control center reports.  The rear always seem to have a little less points collected than the front, but not to the extreme that cardboard's does.  Take a look at some of your old reports Bruce, I'd be curious to know if yours is not the same.

[Mopar]

The instructions for my TMax TBW says the initiation sequence is different the standard TMAX.

IMPORTANT STEP BEFORE STARTING
Initialization Procedure
Required for new module installation, or when interruption of 12v power takes place. Example: batterychange, removal of maxi fuse, etc.

Turn the ignition switch on and the handlebar rocker switch to run for 20 seconds, uninterrupted.

Cycle the ignition switch off and on, then start the engine. (not the rocker switch)

Let the motorcycle idle on its own for 15 seconds.

Cycle the ignition off and restart the motorcycle; normal idle speed should be attained
depending on engine temperature.

Warm-up cycle will have slightly elevated idle speed (approximately 1200
rpm) until engine reaches operating temperature.

To disconnect from the PC, click the Unlink button (turns to red),
remove the USB cable and snap the weather seal plug into the USB cable port.
Position the retainer plate over the weather seal and tighten the retainer plate screw.
Congratulations! You have successfully installed and set up your ThunderMax ECM. Now it’s time to ride the
bike and let ThunderMax optimize your EFI system!

[Jamie Long]

As far as mileage goes, most of the Tmax calibrations use AFR strategies that generally vary from 13.5-13.8 in the cruise range and then blend as rich at 12.2-12.6 at WOT, these are much richer than the Harley OEM and 50 Stage calibrations especially thru the cruise range, however as Mayor and others noted earlier these targets are easily adjusted in the calibration as you have full control of the mixture. Both Zippers and Fuel Moto can help make any necessary adjustments and you are welcome to contact us.

As far as our Jackpot head pipes the O2 sensor bungs and locations were tested extensively with both stock and Wideband sensors for proper operation in a wide range of applications, the bungs are cnc machined from 304 stainless to exact specs, each pipe is assembled and double checked in a cnc fixture, we have sold thousands of these pipes which have been on the market since 2009 and I have personally tuned hundreds of bikes with them with absolutely no issues. Dynojet, Zippers and Revolution Performance each have experience with our exhausts and have recommended them to a wide range of customers as well.

[7hogs]

Is that a stock MAP? I can see why it is getting bad mileage

[cardboard]

Man it rained Thursday nite and friday mornin. And got really cold last nite.
It's not much above freezing outside.
Don't know if I will get to test the program Mayor changed for me or not.

[mayor]

could be worse, been spitting flurries here for the last two days.  If the changes I made makes a difference with no ill effects, we can adjust the afr a little more. Having not played with a TBW Tmax map before, I didn't want to go too much the first time. 

[cardboard]

could be worse, been spitting flurries here for the last two days.  If the changes I made makes a difference with no ill effects, we can adjust the afr a little more. Having not played with a TBW Tmax map before, I didn't want to go too much the first time.

Comon Man !
No ill effects , yer startin to Scare me.
50 miles one way in the Cold and I might get Ill effects. Might not make it home.
I'm trying to get up the go to ride it. OL and me both need new shoes. She starts running again in a couple weeks.
To get a decent pair of Nike or New Balance Tennis shoes its 50 miles to a Academy.

[mayor]

don't be scared.     I'm just not sure why the base map was set so rich were it was in the early tps settings.  I can't ignore the fact that Zippers likely knows much more than me when they set up the original map, so there's always that risk that deviating the base map may cause some issues.  I don't think you will have any issues though, since I didn't go extreme any where.  The key is ride it, and we'll make adjustments if needed.

[cardboard]

Puttin a bunch of thermal clothes on now. Its 37* outside. Think I will try to ride it. And get some lunch if I can move with all the clothes and leather on.
My poor wife might just freeze with a 50 mile run there and a 50 mile run back.

[cardboard]

O.K. left this mornin and it was 37*.On the way home it went to 54*
Looks like I got 1 mile to the gallon difference in fuel milage.   
100.8 miles
2.817 Gallons of gas.

That's 35.8 miles.   
I was gettin like 34.8 before we did the map.

Also after riding for a while, when I stop every now and then it still acts like it wants to Die. the Idle starts droppin for some reason or another.
Been doing this since I had the TM.

[mayor]

how did the bike feel while riding?  any surging?  ready to try more adjustments?

[cardboard]

After the bike has been run for a while it tries to drop in rpm and you think it might die
Didn't notice any surging
As far as I could tell it ran the same
Something I remember is sometimes when you gear down or let off the gas it will pop
But not always

[mayor]

is the idle issue something that happens after the bike is warm, or is it all the time?

[7hogs]

Is it going lean when the idle drops? If yes what temp is it?

[mayor]

Did you see the timing drops based on temp now too Jim?  I was thinking maybe the idle timing was dropping too much at temp

[cardboard]

If I remember correctly Zippers wants the Idle set at like 992 rpm. Think the base map had that rpm. It would drop way down in the 800 and the bike would shake
and it would die sometimes. I raised it to 1004 and told Zippers the problem. They told me to use another map. I did and wound up settin it  to like 1024
Same thing. So I raised the Idle to like 1056



I told Randy at Zippers what the bike was doing. He gave me some different maps and different firmware. I still had the same problems.
I have no idea how to tune and don't feel confident in moving the settings on the AFR's, even though Zippers was gonna try to show me some things on changing
the AFR's and all.

And all I've been told about timing is you move it too much and you can burn yer bike up.
Seen the Youtube Video's, but not going to do anything to the timing.

What do I need to do now. 

[saddle tramp]

You may need to change your timing settings, not across the board but down low at idle and cruise speed, that could get rid of your idle problem and also get you better cruse mileage.
Mayor should be able to help you with this, as he posted earlier about raising the timing at lower RPM.s to gain throttle response and mileage, but that wasn't on a FBW system.

[mayor]

What do I need to do now. 

Set the idle to 992, and do an idle monitor log from a cold engine to about 275° or so, and we will look at the data.  Pay particular attention to the head temps where idle issues may be occurring (that's if they aren't present at the beginning of the recording). 

To record a monitor log, connect your computer to the bike, turn the ignition on, set the rocker switch to run, hit the link/monitor button, in the header of the TMax I software select Monitoring/Monitor Logging, start the bike up and record.  When the head temps reach where you want to stop the monitor logging, you can click on the link/monitor buttons to shut the monitoring down.  Just remember to uncheck the monitor logging (Monitoring tab) before hitting the monitor button again. 

you can also answer this question:
is the idle issue something that happens as soon as you start the bike up, or after the bike is warmed up?

Jamie felt confident that the pipes weren't an issue, so we will focus on the TMax map.  What Jim (7hogs) is thinking is your afr correction vs engine temp map may need to be tweaked, and what I'm thinking may be that your idle timing is being reduced too much with the new timing vs engine temp map.  We can only guess without good feedback from you.  You gave us the overview of the problem, but we need more info in order to try to fix the idle.  Here's potential fixes:

1. If the idle problem is there all the time, then we will look at maybe changing idle timing or idle afr to see if we can make improvement (although, see the idle timing note below)

2. If the idle problem occurs after then engine is up to operating temp, then we can look at the timing vs engine temp map.  The current map has your idle timing at 22° with cold temps and lowers gradually to 15° by 282°f.  I personally like to run more idle timing than 15°, and usually the engine tends to agree.  We can easily make a correction to fix this if we find this is the problem.  If the idle issue only happens when the engine is cold, same applies. 

3. if the idle problem occurs randomly, then the problem could be in the AFR correction vs engine temp map, which can also be corrected. 

And all I've been told about timing is you move it too much and you can burn yer bike up.
Seen the Youtube Video's, but not going to do anything to the timing.

that actually goes both ways, run too little and you burn the bike up too.  The bike will generally let you know when it doesn't agree with a changes, well before the point of catastrophic failures. If you are not willing to have the timing adjusted if it needs to be, let me know now and I will quit helping.  No sense in going any further if that is the case. 

[mayor]

I'm with you fixer.   

[saddle tramp]

I'm with you fixer.   

Thanks Mayor, you've been a big help to me, and following your directions has made a big difference in how my bike runs !

[cardboard]

When you crank the bike and it's cold, it kicks up some like the choke is on. But after it warms up. the idle will drop a couple hundred rpm's and act like its
Gonna die. With the rpms lower the rpms drops pretty fast when you let off on the throttle. That along with the bike dropping in RPMs is what made me rise the
rpm's to 1056. AT 1056 when you let off on the throttle when you pull in the clutch the RPS don't drop as fast.

When I said something about the timing. I don't feel comfortable with ME Adjusting he timing and all on the map. I wouldn't know what I would be doing.
I have no knowledge of adjusting Timing .
I would be glad if we try to adjust it as long as I don't hurt the bike.
Its gonna get pretty cold tonite.
I will go down tomorrow and read what you posted on me dropping the rpms and running a monitor log.
How long will a monitor long run. Will it last long enough for me to get the bike to 275* ?

[saddle tramp]

The IAC monitoring will run from a cold start till it reaches 275* then you can shut it down.
You can watch the IAC make adjustments will it's working.
If you go to T-max control center it will tell you if your IAC needs adjusting, and you can watch what it adjusts as it's doing it.
This is from a cable bike not a FBW bike so I don't know if there would be any difference ?

[mayor]

there's no warm up type of auto learn that I can see on the TMax I (tbw) software

[saddle tramp]

there's no warm up type of auto learn that I can see on the TMax I (tbw) software

Mayor,
I have a fairly new unit and under the T-max control center it has a window that will tell you if you need to run the IAC auto calibrate. Maybe the earlier ones didn't have that ?

[mayor]

cardboard has a throttle by wire bike (no IAC).  The software is called TMax I, the one you are talking about is Gen 2

[saddle tramp]

well, like I said earlier, my info is from a cable bike not a FBW.

[cardboard]

cardboard has a throttle by wire bike (no IAC).  The software is called TMax I, the one you are talking about is Gen 2

Click on this link. Look at 2008-2011 TBW . This is the software for the year the Throttle by wire 1st come out on the touring bikes
Which is 2008 up to present on 2012. The maps are for TBW only.


See if this answers your question.

http://www.thunder-max.com/Support/Instructions/FuelInjectionSoftware.aspx

TMaxI Tuner 2010.2.13 FULL VERSION 
This is the one I have for my bike

[cardboard]

well, like I said earlier, my info is from a cable bike not a FBW.

I have both the CAble bikes which is like the 07 bike and the TBW bike on my  computer.
The maps are different and have different map numbers.

http://www.thunder-max.com/Support/Instructions/FuelInjectionSoftware.aspx


This is the version I have on my bike.

TMaxI Tuner 2010.2.13 FULL VERSION

[mayor]

I have TMax I full version 2011.0.4 

[cardboard]

I have TMax I full version 2011.0.4 

That's the version I have too. But I can't hold a candle to y'all on how to use it.

[mayor]

I'm with you fixer.   

Thanks Mayor, you've been a big help to me, and following your directions has made a big difference in how my bike runs !

oops...forgot to say, thanks for the compliment Fixer.   

[7hogs]

Mayor

When the idle drops and if it is going lean or rich if could be in the AFR correction vs eng temp See attached and the one that says lean is if it drops and the afr goes lean the one that says
rich is if the AFR goes rich when the idle drops but I would go back to 992


Your data log will be able to tell you this or hook up and monitor the bike and it will show you what it is doing.



[attachment removed after 60 days by system]

[7hogs]

Here is the rich one.

[attachment removed after 60 days by system]

[mayor]

When the idle drops and if it is going lean or rich if could be in the AFR correction vs eng temp....

I agree Jim.  I also think we need to look at the idle timing. I think the new timing vs. engine temp map could be letting the idle timing get pretty low.  I'm working on a post with the charts to show what I'm talking about. 

You mind reviewing cardboards idle monitor when he gets it done?  your better at the afr correction chart than I am.   

[7hogs]

This idle timing I set to this MAP is less than my 117.

Mayor can you post the MAP you did?

Did you see the timing drops based on temp now too Jim?  I was thinking maybe the idle timing was dropping too much at temp

I do not see that on my software and my background changed from black to blue when I loaded his MAP

[attachment removed after 60 days by system]

[7hogs]

When the idle drops and if it is going lean or rich if could be in the AFR correction vs eng temp....

I agree Jim.  I also think we need to look at the idle timing. I think the new timing vs. engine temp map could be letting the idle timing get pretty low.  I'm working on a post with the charts to show what I'm talking about. 

You mind reviewing cardboards idle monitor when he gets it done?  your better at the afr correction chart than I am.   

Raise the idle timing up with the stock bike you should be closer to 24 degrees at idle

[mayor]

When you crank the bike and it's cold, it kicks up some like the choke is on. But after it warms up. the idle will drop a couple hundred rpm's and act like its Gonna die.

the idle speed rpm vs engine temp map is what determines what the idle will be at temp.  here's your current idle speed vs engine temp map (at 177°f, the idle rpm becomes the set desired rpm):


in conjunction with the above idle RPM map, the timing vs engine heat map becomes active on head temp as well.  The set idle timing on the 1024 rpm timing map is likely around 18 degrees (I say likely, since it's still throttle position based and I don't know idle throttle position for your bike).  At the point where the idle settles on your current map (177°f), the desired timing is 1°f advanced above what the individual timing maps are set at (idle can be a combination of the 768 rpm timing map and 1024 rpm timing map when the idle is set below 1024):

the idle timing is only set at the desired timing for a range of 191°f-226°f, then starts dropping in degrees from there.  By 254°f, the idle timing is reduced by 2 degrees so it would be at 16 degree's or lower (depending on how much the 768 timing map factors in, based on set desired idle). By 282°, the idle timing is down 3 degrees.  In warm climates, hitting 282° at idle when stuck in traffic isn't that tough. 

there's a couple of afr correction charts that affect the actual afr as well, which is what 7hogs is referring too.

I would be glad if we try to adjust it as long as I don't hurt the bike.

your job will be to report back what your senses are telling you (sound and feel).  If you do your job well, there's no worries.  You can usually feel when timing gets to far advanced with the T-max, based on engine smoothness and any audible ping is a obviously not wanted.  What we are trying to do is make your engine as happy as possible. 

[mayor]

Mayor can you post the MAP you did?

mines on reply #36, but the only thing I did on that was lean out the afr tables a little from the base map.  I want to lean the afr a little more yet, but wanted to wait on cardboards report on how the bike ran first. I haven't done anything to improve idle yet.  was waiting for you to jump in 

When the idle drops and if it is going lean or rich if could be in the AFR correction vs eng temp....

I agree Jim.  I also think we need to look at the idle timing.

Raise the idle timing up with the stock bike you should be closer to 24 degrees at idle

where I was thinking as well. The tough thing is the temp based timing correction chart will likely need tweaked, which will affect the other timing charts as well.   

Did you see the timing drops based on temp now too Jim?  I was thinking maybe the idle timing was dropping too much at temp

I do not see that on my software and my background changed from black to blue when I loaded his MAP

make sure your gen 2 and TMax I software are both up to date.  Both have a timing vs engine temp map now.  if you don't have version 2011.0.4, let me now and I will e-mail you the download links. 

[7hogs]

I have TMax I full version 2011.0.4 

Mayor can you email it to me if not I will call Randy tomorrow? I would not be worrying about dropping that timing off until you hit 280

7hogs@cox.net 

[7hogs]

My Smartlink is good but my TmaxI is not

[mayor]

Mayor can you email it to me if not I will call Randy tomorrow?

done, let me know if you didn't get it.

I would not be worrying about dropping that timing off until you hit 280

that's what I was thinking as well.  I think that the base map is a little too over zealous on using the temp based timing corrections. 


cardboard, I'll make some timing adjustments later today and post a new map for you to try. 

[cardboard]

The bike at idle never dropped into the 800 range. Never done that before.
Here is the map. got a 5 on the end.
Hope this works.
HBSSSFSAAN121311+(08) (5).tbw

Thanks for the help Guy's

[attachment removed after 60 days by system]

[Ajayrk]

Mayor, you are a saint.

[7hogs]

This should improve mileage and your issues at idle. I emailed this to Mayor since he has been working with you and it would be his call if you should load it or not.

You should also have more power at cruise and off idle.

Again what ever Mayor says is what I would do.

[attachment removed after 60 days by system]

[mayor]

Mayor, you are a saint.

thanks, but have to say theirs plenty of others on this site as well (like 7hogs).  In the end, we're all just trying to help each other get the best running bikes we can.   

[7hogs]

Also check your plugs to see what they look like they will tell you if you are running too rich.

[cardboard]

Plug on the left is the front and the plug on the right is the rear. The bike has 15,000 on it.
Think I will go get some new plugs.

[FLTRI]

Plug on the left is the front and the plug on the right is the rear. The bike has 15,000 on it.
Think I will go get some new plugs.

IF this pic is of plugs from a proper cut...the AFR is definitely too rich. They should be off white.
Bob

[mayor]

Yea, looks rich.  We'll fix that...I can't play until later though, wife has me spending quality time with her watching movies.

[7hogs]

Plug on the left is the front and the plug on the right is the rear. The bike has 15,000 on it.
Think I will go get some new plugs.

IF this pic is of plugs from a proper cut...the AFR is definitely too rich. They should be off white.
Bob

Ditto on that I changed the MAP and sent it off to Mayor for him to look at. I tend to push the limits on timing

[7hogs]

Yea, looks rich.  We'll fix that...I can't play until later though, wife has me spending quality time with her watching movies.

Change the plugs before you ride it with the new MAP

[cardboard]

New Plugs just got taken care of.

Just went to Orielly and got 2 XS 4164 Autolite Spark Plugs, gaped them at 40 and put some anti seize on the threads and screwed them in.

http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/ATOA/XS4164.oap?ck=Search_N0246_-1_-1&pt=N0246&ppt=C0218

[7hogs]

Now you have to wait for Mayor to get done with qt time with the wife mine makes me go to the grocery store! Mayor is a lucky man.

One thing be patient the bike will need time to dial in and you may need to run Auto Map a few times also remember to re initialize it when loading a new MAP

[cardboard]

Now you have to wait for Mayor to get done with qt time with the wife mine makes me go to the grocery store! Mayor is a lucky man.

One thing be patient the bike will need time to dial in and you may need to run Auto Map a few times also remember to re initialize it when loading a new MAP

Cool !

Thanks ............   

[mayor]

One movie down, one more to go. 

[7hogs]

One movie down, one more to go. 

check you email.

Sorry man I am totally bored so I re did the MAP for you to look over before you post it for cardboard.

[mayor]

Will do as soon as the wife gives back my PC.  She's wrapping up her homework for her tomorrows photog class
I can't view the software on my tablet, which is what I'm checking in on   

[7hogs]

Here ya go. Load it, re initialize it then start it. Let it warm up a little then ride it and let the Auto Tune do it's job then after a few tanks fulls we can take a look at it and see
how it is doing and in the mean time post how it does for you.



[attachment removed after 60 days by system]

[cardboard]

Here ya go. Load it, re initialize it then start it. Let it warm up a little then ride it and let the Auto Tune do it's job then after a few tanks fulls we can take a look at it and see
how it is doing and in the mean time post how it does for you.

ARe you serious, I can load this program and run it. I will have to wait on riding it. We are having monsoons. But I can load it.
Got any ideas on what to expect.

Thank You very much.

[cardboard]

Here ya go. Load it, re initialize it then start it. Let it warm up a little then ride it and let the Auto Tune do it's job then after a few tanks fulls we can take a look at it and see
how it is doing and in the mean time post how it does for you.

Why is it telling me the file can't be opened, its incompatable ?

[cardboard]

It finally let me open it. Don't know what I was doing wrong. Got it loaded in TM now.

[7hogs]

It finally let me open it. Don't know what I was doing wrong. Got it loaded in TM now.

Good, you should expect it to get better mileage and be a bit more of a happy motor on the idle thing we are going to have to see how it does. I have been working with this system since
2006 and it does take time for the auto tune to work.

Cold and snowy here.

[cardboard]

Notise that on Idle its up like in the 13's on AFR. and will slip up into the 1417 afr. Watch the rear cylinder go from green to pink on
The color every now and then. Hope that's O.K. or just the learning process.
I let it run to 275* after I initalized it.
It cranks better and idles good.
It's suppose to clear up tomorrow and get warmer.
I will have to probably go help my buddy on a Boat motor.
Will try to run it when I get back.   

Thanks very much.

[7hogs]

 

[cardboard]

Rode the Bike 73 miles today.
Bike cranks good. Idles o.k. Didn't stumble as much.
Seemed to run about the same. Mabe a little smoother.
Fuelmilage on te 1st 73 miles didn't change,It stayed the same.

It's suppose to rain again tomorrow and they are calling for Rain this weekand.
Man Please.
I want to get the OL and go for a ride.
But I may have to hold off for a little while till the monsoon season lets up.

[7hogs]

Rode the Bike 73 miles today.
Bike cranks good. Idles o.k. Didn't stumble as much.
Seemed to run about the same. Mabe a little smoother.
Fuelmilage on te 1st 73 miles didn't change,It stayed the same.

It's suppose to rain again tomorrow and they are calling for Rain this weekand.
Man Please.
I want to get the OL and go for a ride.
But I may have to hold off for a little while till the monsoon season lets up.

If you have time download your MAP from the bike and post it so I can look at your off sets you should have enough miles on it to see how it is adjusting.

[cardboard]

Here is the file that I ran today.
Hope it is what you are lookin for

[attachment removed after 60 days by system]

[7hogs]

Here ya go and pull the plugs and gap them at 38

[attachment removed after 60 days by system]

[cardboard]

Here ya go and pull the plugs and gap them at 38

Pull the plugs, gap them at 38 and load this map you just posted also.

Curious, how did you figure to gap the plugs at 38?
Something to do with the way its running.

[7hogs]

Yes,

I was told a long time ago to do that and I thought the bike ran better than at 40. So I do 38 on stock comp higher comp and displacement 35 and that is what I gap my 117"

Does that have something to do with yours no I think you are getting way to much fuel so I made some changes to help that.

[cardboard]

Yes,

I was told a long time ago to do that and I thought the bike ran better than at 40. So I do 38 on stock comp higher comp and displacement 35 and that is what I gap my 117"

Does that have something to do with yours no I think you are getting way to much fuel so I made some changes to help that.

I gapped the plugs at 38, loaded map 11 and reinitialized the bike, and ran it.
Looked at map 11, it shows no yellow lines anymore that I notised.

[7hogs]

I removed the yellow markers.

Ride it when you can then pull the plugs after a longer ride (after it cools down) and post the pics.

[cardboard]

Man I want to go ride my bike and test it out. But it will not quit rainin long enough.

[cardboard]

Well I'm back. Sorry I hadn't been able to ride for a little while. Got Puney with Pneumonia.  Still trying to git over it.

Rode today and got 37.2 mpg. Bike runs pretty good. Hope when I ride it some more and it tunes a little more
it gets a little better fuel milage.

Thanks for all the help 7Hogs.

[cardboard]

A  while back I got some help to try to get some better fuel milage. Had Mayor workin on my map. The best fuel milage I have got is 39.8

Well the bike has been acting real hot sittin in traffic, and felt like it was gonna burn up.

Was talkin to Smarty and lookin at my AFR's and at Idle they are at like 14.1
Ain't that real lean at Idle. Shouldn't I be down like 12.8 to 13.1?

Also I was talkin with Smarty about doing the degrees. I can not hook up to my TM and link and monitor it and when I turn the throttle the verticle line will not move to do degrees. I know when I crank my bike and run it to 3000 rpm I haven't even reached 14.8 or whatever it is at the 1st line.
Question is how am I gonna set the degrees on the TBW bike if it has to be running to figure degrees to get the line to move

Would appreciate some help. I'm kinda stumped here.

Thanks..........

[attachment removed after 60 days by system]

[mayor]

actually, you had 7hogs working on your map last. 

In the south, I probably wouldn't run a 14:1 afr at idle.  I wouldn't call that lean, but it's not rich either.  I'm around 13.5 on my Tmax bike, and I'm in the North.  If you are running hot at idle, try richening up the 768-1024 afr tables and also lower the idle to 944-960. 

Question is how am I gonna set the degrees on the TBW bike if it has to be running to figure degrees to get the line to move

good question, I haven't figured out the answer to that myself yet.  About the only way I can think to be able to relate the tps with your bike woukld be through data recordings, and even that is tricking since you have to interpret the data (meaning, was you going up an incline at the time or down one...etc.). 

[cardboard]

And at Lower Idle the bike does not idle good.

[7hogs]

I looked at the MAP and that is not the way I set the AFR anyway I will adjust it and re post it. I also search my hard drive and did not find that map that I modded.

[7hogs]

try this. I did another one that is richer than this one.

[attachment removed after 60 days by system]

[Templar2]

Monitor button on?  I have mine set at 13.2 at idle and then it goes up to 13.9 at cruise and settles in at 12.9 across the rest of the RPM range at 55 degrees + of throttle.  These settings are a bit richer down low and leaner in the cruise area than before, I was getting 40-42 mpg then, I expect to see a bit more now.  Timing is set as per the #840 map delivered by Zippers, idle is at 944 and the fuel at startup (cold) is 245.  Seems to work fine.  Vertical TPS line starts at around 14 degrees and movers thru the various throttle inputs (twists) as prescribed.  Not sure CB but I think you should see similar results and perhaps better ones, have you downloaded the latest maps and firm ware?

[7hogs]

actually, you had 7hogs working on your map last. 

In the south, I probably wouldn't run a 14:1 afr at idle.  I wouldn't call that lean, but it's not rich either.  I'm around 13.5 on my Tmax bike, and I'm in the North.  If you are running hot at idle, try richening up the 768-1024 afr tables and also lower the idle to 944-960. 

Question is how am I gonna set the degrees on the TBW bike if it has to be running to figure degrees to get the line to move

good question, I haven't figured out the answer to that myself yet.  About the only way I can think to be able to relate the tps with your bike woukld be through data recordings, and even that is tricking since you have to interpret the data (meaning, was you going up an incline at the time or down one...etc.). 

You are right and the MAP he just posted was not the one I sent him the first time. Been a long week!

[cardboard]

Monitor button on?  I have mine set at 13.2 at idle and then it goes up to 13.9 at cruise and settles in at 12.9 across the rest of the RPM range at 55 degrees + of throttle.  These settings are a bit richer down low and leaner in the cruise area than before, I was getting 40-42 mpg then, I expect to see a bit more now.  Timing is set as per the #840 map delivered by Zippers, idle is at 944 and the fuel at startup (cold) is 245.  Seems to work fine.  Vertical TPS line starts at around 14 degrees and movers thru the various throttle inputs (twists) as prescribed.  Not sure CB but I think you should see similar results and perhaps better ones, have you downloaded the latest maps and firm ware?

You are probably on Cable drive bike.

I am on TBW bike. I don't have no 840 and 944 maps dude.

I can't figure out how to do Degrees with the throttle dude. And I do a lot of two up riding.

[Smarty]

Monitor button on?  I have mine set at 13.2 at idle and then it goes up to 13.9 at cruise and settles in at 12.9 across the rest of the RPM range at 55 degrees + of throttle.  These settings are a bit richer down low and leaner in the cruise area than before, I was getting 40-42 mpg then, I expect to see a bit more now.  Timing is set as per the #840 map delivered by Zippers, idle is at 944 and the fuel at startup (cold) is 245.  Seems to work fine.  Vertical TPS line starts at around 14 degrees and movers thru the various throttle inputs (twists) as prescribed.  Not sure CB but I think you should see similar results and perhaps better ones, have you downloaded the latest maps and firm ware?

Took a look at the map and got him around 13.5 down low, 13.9 at cruising and from 40 degrees or so back down at around 13 to 1 fuel/air. We will see how it does. Should help the heat at low rpm's a bunch


You are probably on Cable drive bike.

I am on TBW bike. I don't have no 840 and 944 maps dude.

I can't figure out how to do Degrees with the throttle dude. And I do a lot of two up riding.

[7hogs]

Cardboard I do remember this now. Sorry for my confusion. Try the new one and if you mileage goes down too much raise the cruise AFR up to 13.8

[cardboard]

The mileage didn't go down
It started runnin hot with is moving from fall or wither to summer

[7hogs]

The mileage didn't go down
It started runnin hot with is moving from fall or wither to summer

It will take time to adjust

[cardboard]

Had about 5 thousand miles on it

[7hogs]

Had about 5 thousand miles on it

Did you load the MAP I posted yesterday? I down loaded the the last MAP you posted changed the AFR and re posted it.

[cardboard]

try this. I did another one that is richer than this one.

Thanks
I will try to go run it if I can ever git off work
Been trying to respond but something won't let me post from a computer
Had to use my phone

[Ajayrk]

I can't figure out how to do Degrees with the throttle dude.

Have you tried this procedure?  Page 133 in the manual.

If you are attempting to tune with or without the benefit of a load control dynamometer,
you may find the following suggestion helpful. Link to the module without starting the
engine with the monitoring function enabled, open the Air/Fuel vs. TPS window and
observe the red vertical bar indicating active throttle position. Twisting the throttle
through its range will move this vertical bar. Using masking tape; wrap tape around the
throttle grip, at the edge closest to the switch housing. Apply another piece of tape to
the switch housing (base) alongside of the grip tape. Make a mark across both pieces
of tape indicating the throttle position at idle. See the pictures on the next page for
clarification

[cardboard]

You are talkin about Throttle by CAble right...............

[Templar2]

It works off the TPS (throttle position sensor), wire or cable does not matter.  Hit the monitor button and you can see the vertical red line move across your AFR page indicating where the throttle position for that particular reading.  That will tell you what the AFR is when you are at part throttle cruise, half throttle cruise, etc.

[cardboard]

It works off the TPS (throttle position sensor), wire or cable does not matter.  Hit the monitor button and you can see the vertical red line move across your AFR page indicating where the throttle position for that particular reading.  That will tell you what the AFR is when you are at part throttle cruise, half throttle cruise, etc.

On my TBW it will not............

[Ajayrk]

It works off the TPS (throttle position sensor), wire or cable does not matter.  Hit the monitor button and you can see the vertical red line move across your AFR page indicating where the throttle position for that particular reading.  That will tell you what the AFR is when you are at part throttle cruise, half throttle cruise, etc.

You are talkin about Throttle by CAble right...............

No, it is in the throttle by wire manual.  Its  under tuning out detonation but should work to find throttle angle.  Page 133.

http://ssdl1.cachefly.net/ThunderMaxManuals/ThunderMaxTBW/309-362_T-MaxI-TUNING%20MANUAL_20100520.pdf#view=fit

[cardboard]

In the picture in page 133 they show the numbers going down. the numbers should go the other way.

And I have a TBW. And have tried it linked and monitored to the TM

It will not make the verticle line move.

If you have a TBW and can make it work O.K.
But it wouldn't work on my bike.

[mayor]

that was likely a copy and paste from the TMax gen2 manual, when they developed the DBW manual.  The DBW bikes do not show throttle position.

[Ajayrk]

Well, shoot.  At least the numbers are in the right order.  Zero is closed and as the throttle is rolled toward the driver the blade opens.

[7hogs]

Their manuals are out of date and not sure why they do not correct them.

[Ajayrk]

OK, will selecting Throttle pos raw and bring up the monitor window show the throttle position during tuning?

[Smarty]

Talked to Randy at t-max today. He said throttle by wire will not show throttle position unless engine is running. Kind of funny cable style will show it!

[Ajayrk]

Well shoot that makes sense, no power no movement.

[Templar2]

Wonder if HD uses some sort of relay on the TPS to only allow it to work with engine running on the TBW bikes?  Doesn't make sense that it will not work with just the ignition on like the cabled do, perhaps Zippers will figure that anomaly out for the TBW bikes.

[glens]

It's not a relay, I'm sure.  With the ignition on on a cable bike, twistgrip movement will move the throttle blade as well as the TPS, and the TPS voltage will vary as a result.  With the igntiion only on but the engine not running (no CKP pulses) on an ETC bike, there's no throttle blade movement necessary since there's no engine speed to control, plus this would be a drain on a discharging-only electrical system, so the TPS does not move.  I haven't checked; I wonder if the TGS output changes with position under key-on-only situations?  I would think it would, just like the TPS on a cable bike, not that it'd be helpful in this situation...

[razorsedge]

FYI, You will not see the TPS line on the graph UNLESS the bike is started just as Randy said.  You must start the bike in order to see the line move.  You should be able to mark lines for idle (zero throttle), and the next two, 14 and 29 TPS before your over-revving the bike.   Usually much over that and your into WOT anyway or really shouldn't be leaning the AFR much.  Unless you have the benefit of putting the bike's rear tire on a brake drum those are about the only marks you will be able to make.  Make sure you are sitting on the bike when you make the marks, otherwise its a crap shoot and you might find you made the marks too high and can't safely see them when referencing your throttle position.  BTW, marking those line are really fun to try to keep straight when the engine is running... been there, done it.

Good Luck!

[cardboard]

Here ya go. Load it, re initialize it then start it. Let it warm up a little then ride it and let the Auto Tune do it's job then after a few tanks fulls we can take a look at it and see
how it is doing and in the mean time post how it does for you.

7hogs

Got a question I would like to ask.
Installed this software , when you turn the switch on the engine light comes on and goes off and you crank the bike.
After the bike cranks the engine light comes back on and stays on for 10 seconds and then goes out.
Any idea what is causing the engine light to come back on for 10 seconds.
Thanks.
And the bike runs good on this map.

[7hogs]

Throwing a code link it  go to Module Config, then Diag codes see what it is and write it down then clear all codes the see if it happens again.

[cardboard]

Thanks for the help.
Found a rear oxygen sensor code in section 4 of the stored codes.
Cleared it out, the engine light went off.

[cardboard]

Got on it real hard this afternoon
It started pinging real bad
Sounded like it rattled some
Tell me the latest firmware update didn 't cause that

[7hogs]

Got on it real hard this afternoon
It started pinging real bad
Sounded like it rattled some
Tell me the latest firmware update didn 't cause that

You may have a bad O2 link it up and monitor it both should read 19.36 also did you get gas somewhere different.

[cardboard]

Got gas at the same station. Also got Amsoil Octaine boost in it.

Twisted the throttle hard at 3000 rpm and that's when it started.
Gonna try this afternoon to hook the bike up to the computer to see how the 02 sensors look on the AFR's

[7hogs]

Got on it real hard this afternoon
It started pinging real bad
Sounded like it rattled some
Tell me the latest firmware update didn 't cause that

You may have a bad O2 link it up and monitor it both should read 19.36 also did you get gas somewhere different.

You do this while the bike is not running

[cardboard]

Got on it real hard this afternoon
It started pinging real bad
Sounded like it rattled some
Tell me the latest firmware update didn 't cause that

You may have a bad O2 link it up and monitor it both should read 19.36 also did you get gas somewhere different.

You do this while the bike is not running

So let me get this straight. You can link the bike with Thunder-Max and check the 02 sensor . And it should read 19.36
I'm lost on how to do it.

[mayor]

You may have a bad O2 link it up and monitor it both should read 19.36 also did you get gas somewhere different.

You do this while the bike is not running

So let me get this straight. You can link the bike with Thunder-Max and check the 02 sensor . And it should read 19.36
I'm lost on how to do it.

when you hit link/monitor your gauge cluster will pop up.  watch your o2 sensors, by the time the module map is synchronised to your computer the front/rear afr should be reading 19.36 without bike running. 

[cardboard]

You may have a bad O2 link it up and monitor it both should read 19.36 also did you get gas somewhere different.

You do this while the bike is not running

So let me get this straight. You can link the bike with Thunder-Max and check the 02 sensor . And it should read 19.36
I'm lost on how to do it.

when you hit link/monitor your gauge cluster will pop up.  watch your o2 sensors, by the time the module map is synchronised to your computer the front/rear afr should be reading 19.36 without bike running.

Thanks.......

[cardboard]

You may have a bad O2 link it up and monitor it both should read 19.36 also did you get gas somewhere different.

You do this while the bike is not running

So let me get this straight. You can link the bike with Thunder-Max and check the 02 sensor . And it should read 19.36
I'm lost on how to do it.

when you hit link/monitor your gauge cluster will pop up.  watch your o2 sensors, by the time the module map is synchronised to your computer the front/rear afr should be reading 19.36 without bike running.

Hooked the bike up. Linked it and hit the monitor button. Sat there and watched it for 10 minutes. The 02 sensors never left 9.30. I cranked the bike and it started reading
Changed the map. This is a Map 7 hogs worked on and Its had alterations to it.

[attachment removed after 60 days by system]

[FLTRI]

Hooked the bike up. Linked it and hit the monitor button. Sat there and watched it for 10 minutes. The 02 sensors never left 9.30. I cranked the bike and it started reading

Have you verified proper O2 bung location and sensor depth?
You may have erroneous O2 readings confounding the auto-tune?
Bob

[cardboard]

Got a set of Stainless Steel Feulmoto header pipes. They have both size bung holes.
The look and shape the same as Fulsac header pipes.
Got a couple other buddies with the same pipe.

[FLTRI]

Got a couple other buddies with the same pipe.

Are they running T-max and same or similar cam overlap (EGR) you are?

The way the engine breathes and the bends in the exhaust tubing changes O2 readings and reliability.

If closed loop results are other than expected the O2 placements become suspect.

Bob

[cardboard]

Both me and another buddy has The FM header pipe, I got supertrapp Stout mufflers. my buddy has the altered stock mufflers from american customs
Another buddy has the FM pipes with a 110 cu Se motor and a pair of tuned 4.5 FM mufflers.
All bikes are stock cams  and motor and all bikes has TM tuners on them.

[FLTRI]

...All bikes are stock cams  and motor and all bikes has TM tuners on them.

You should have no issues with plug and play T-max on a stock bike.

Bob

[7hogs]

You may have a bad O2 link it up and monitor it both should read 19.36 also did you get gas somewhere different.

You do this while the bike is not running

So let me get this straight. You can link the bike with Thunder-Max and check the 02 sensor . And it should read 19.36
I'm lost on how to do it.

when you hit link/monitor your gauge cluster will pop up.  watch your o2 sensors, by the time the module map is synchronised to your computer the front/rear afr should be reading 19.36 without bike running.

Hooked the bike up. Linked it and hit the monitor button. Sat there and watched it for 10 minutes. The 02 sensors never left 9.30. I cranked the bike and it started reading
Changed the map. This is a Map 7 hogs worked on and Its had alterations to it.

This is on page 140

To test that the oxygen sensors are active and properly working, turn the ignition on, yet
do not start the engine. Link to the module & monitor the AFR of the Front and Rear
cylinders using the Monitor Gauges. Read the AFR Values for the Front & Rear
cylinders, without starting the engine. After approx. 10 seconds, the sensors should be
calibrated. Once calibrated to the ambient air, the oxygen sensors should warm up to a
value of 19.36 for each sensor in the AFR monitor gauge windows.
If you cannot replicate the value of 19.36, your oxygen sensors are not calibrating
correctly. This will cause corrupt data to influence the effectiveness of the
ThunderMax Auto-Tune system in properly following the targets on the tuning

I would replace them

[cardboard]

Turned the bike on, it automatically links to the TM program.
I clickon monitor. it reads the map and the monitor guages show up.
Sit there and look at them.
They start at 9.30 and never move.
Can't find anybody that has monitored them .
If I crank the bike the afrs for the from and back start reading.
Guess I'm stuck

[7hogs]

Turned the bike on, it automatically links to the TM program.
I clickon monitor. it reads the map and the monitor guages show up.
Sit there and look at them.
They start at 9.30 and never move.
Can't find anybody that has monitored them .
If I crank the bike the afrs for the from and back start reading.
Guess I'm stuck

If they do not read 19.36 they are bad usually I would replace them or call Zippers and see what they say

[cardboard]

Turned the bike on, it automatically links to the TM program.
I clickon monitor. it reads the map and the monitor guages show up.
Sit there and look at them.
They start at 9.30 and never move.
Can't find anybody that has monitored them .
If I crank the bike the afrs for the from and back start reading.
Guess I'm stuck

I've never seen them read numbers like that since I got the TM new last year for the TBW
Guess I will call RAndy and see what he has to say.
If they do not read 19.36 they are bad usually I would replace them or call Zippers and see what they say

[cardboard]

Turned the bike on, it automatically links to the TM program.
I clickon monitor. it reads the map and the monitor guages show up.
Sit there and look at them.
They start at 9.30 and never move.
Can't find anybody that has monitored them .
If I crank the bike the afrs for the from and back start reading.
Guess I'm stuck

If they do not read 19.36 they are bad usually I would replace them or call Zippers and see what they say

Called Zippers this afternoon and talked to Randy.
Randy said on the TBW that it will not read 19.36, it will read 9.30

What I should look for is if the front and rear AFR's are tracking the AFR target after the bike warms up.

Randy said they are going to work on that in a future software update.

[7hogs]

Turned the bike on, it automatically links to the TM program.
I clickon monitor. it reads the map and the monitor guages show up.
Sit there and look at them.
They start at 9.30 and never move.
Can't find anybody that has monitored them .
If I crank the bike the afrs for the from and back start reading.
Guess I'm stuck

If they do not read 19.36 they are bad usually I would replace them or call Zippers and see what they say

Called Zippers this afternoon and talked to Randy.
Randy said on the TBW that it will not read 19.36, it will read 9.30

What I should look for is if the front and rear AFR's are tracking the AFR target after the bike warms up.

Randy said they are going to work on that in a future software update.

Post your current MAP before applying any offsets or Auto Map

[cardboard]

I changed the map a little
Its been rainin so I have not had a chance to run it .
Just cranked the bike with it.

Thanks

[attachment removed after 60 days by system]

[cardboard]

I changed the map a little
Its been rainin so I have not had a chance to run it .
Just cranked the bike with it.

Thanks

Was hopin somebody looked at it and what they think .

Did I mess it up any.

Thanks.

[7hogs]

I did but I had nothing to compare it to before you changed it.  How is it now?

[cardboard]

Man its rained for a week, under flash flood warning for a while.
Haven't been able to try it.

thanks oh.

[cardboard]

I changed the map a little
Its been rainin so I have not had a chance to run it .
Just cranked the bike with it.

Thanks

Finally got to run the bike yesteday. Rode it 30 miles let the bike sat for about 45 minutes and rode it back.
Cranked good. Run smooth , seemed like it didn't quiet have as much power as the other map I had in the bike.
But one thing I did notise is the heat from the exhaust under my leg was no where as much.
Was hopin to ride it more today. but the rain is coming back.

[cardboard]

This is the previous map I had in it.

[attachment removed after 60 days by system]

[cardboard]

This is the map I posted several post I have in it now.
'

No its not

Post #113 is

[attachment removed after 60 days by system]