TMax

[cardboard]

could be worse, been spitting flurries here for the last two days.  If the changes I made makes a difference with no ill effects, we can adjust the afr a little more. Having not played with a TBW Tmax map before, I didn't want to go too much the first time.

Comon Man !
No ill effects , yer startin to Scare me.
50 miles one way in the Cold and I might get Ill effects. Might not make it home.
I'm trying to get up the go to ride it. OL and me both need new shoes. She starts running again in a couple weeks.
To get a decent pair of Nike or New Balance Tennis shoes its 50 miles to a Academy.

[mayor]

don't be scared.     I'm just not sure why the base map was set so rich were it was in the early tps settings.  I can't ignore the fact that Zippers likely knows much more than me when they set up the original map, so there's always that risk that deviating the base map may cause some issues.  I don't think you will have any issues though, since I didn't go extreme any where.  The key is ride it, and we'll make adjustments if needed.

[cardboard]

Puttin a bunch of thermal clothes on now. Its 37* outside. Think I will try to ride it. And get some lunch if I can move with all the clothes and leather on.
My poor wife might just freeze with a 50 mile run there and a 50 mile run back.

[cardboard]

O.K. left this mornin and it was 37*.On the way home it went to 54*
Looks like I got 1 mile to the gallon difference in fuel milage.   
100.8 miles
2.817 Gallons of gas.

That's 35.8 miles.   
I was gettin like 34.8 before we did the map.

Also after riding for a while, when I stop every now and then it still acts like it wants to Die. the Idle starts droppin for some reason or another.
Been doing this since I had the TM.

[mayor]

how did the bike feel while riding?  any surging?  ready to try more adjustments?

[cardboard]

After the bike has been run for a while it tries to drop in rpm and you think it might die
Didn't notice any surging
As far as I could tell it ran the same
Something I remember is sometimes when you gear down or let off the gas it will pop
But not always

[mayor]

is the idle issue something that happens after the bike is warm, or is it all the time?

[7hogs]

Is it going lean when the idle drops? If yes what temp is it?

[mayor]

Did you see the timing drops based on temp now too Jim?  I was thinking maybe the idle timing was dropping too much at temp

[cardboard]

If I remember correctly Zippers wants the Idle set at like 992 rpm. Think the base map had that rpm. It would drop way down in the 800 and the bike would shake
and it would die sometimes. I raised it to 1004 and told Zippers the problem. They told me to use another map. I did and wound up settin it  to like 1024
Same thing. So I raised the Idle to like 1056



I told Randy at Zippers what the bike was doing. He gave me some different maps and different firmware. I still had the same problems.
I have no idea how to tune and don't feel confident in moving the settings on the AFR's, even though Zippers was gonna try to show me some things on changing
the AFR's and all.

And all I've been told about timing is you move it too much and you can burn yer bike up.
Seen the Youtube Video's, but not going to do anything to the timing.

What do I need to do now. 

[saddle tramp]

You may need to change your timing settings, not across the board but down low at idle and cruise speed, that could get rid of your idle problem and also get you better cruse mileage.
Mayor should be able to help you with this, as he posted earlier about raising the timing at lower RPM.s to gain throttle response and mileage, but that wasn't on a FBW system.

[mayor]

What do I need to do now. 

Set the idle to 992, and do an idle monitor log from a cold engine to about 275° or so, and we will look at the data.  Pay particular attention to the head temps where idle issues may be occurring (that's if they aren't present at the beginning of the recording). 

To record a monitor log, connect your computer to the bike, turn the ignition on, set the rocker switch to run, hit the link/monitor button, in the header of the TMax I software select Monitoring/Monitor Logging, start the bike up and record.  When the head temps reach where you want to stop the monitor logging, you can click on the link/monitor buttons to shut the monitoring down.  Just remember to uncheck the monitor logging (Monitoring tab) before hitting the monitor button again. 

you can also answer this question:
is the idle issue something that happens as soon as you start the bike up, or after the bike is warmed up?

Jamie felt confident that the pipes weren't an issue, so we will focus on the TMax map.  What Jim (7hogs) is thinking is your afr correction vs engine temp map may need to be tweaked, and what I'm thinking may be that your idle timing is being reduced too much with the new timing vs engine temp map.  We can only guess without good feedback from you.  You gave us the overview of the problem, but we need more info in order to try to fix the idle.  Here's potential fixes:

1. If the idle problem is there all the time, then we will look at maybe changing idle timing or idle afr to see if we can make improvement (although, see the idle timing note below)

2. If the idle problem occurs after then engine is up to operating temp, then we can look at the timing vs engine temp map.  The current map has your idle timing at 22° with cold temps and lowers gradually to 15° by 282°f.  I personally like to run more idle timing than 15°, and usually the engine tends to agree.  We can easily make a correction to fix this if we find this is the problem.  If the idle issue only happens when the engine is cold, same applies. 

3. if the idle problem occurs randomly, then the problem could be in the AFR correction vs engine temp map, which can also be corrected. 

And all I've been told about timing is you move it too much and you can burn yer bike up.
Seen the Youtube Video's, but not going to do anything to the timing.

that actually goes both ways, run too little and you burn the bike up too.  The bike will generally let you know when it doesn't agree with a changes, well before the point of catastrophic failures. If you are not willing to have the timing adjusted if it needs to be, let me know now and I will quit helping.  No sense in going any further if that is the case. 

[mayor]

I'm with you fixer.   

[saddle tramp]

I'm with you fixer.   

Thanks Mayor, you've been a big help to me, and following your directions has made a big difference in how my bike runs !

[cardboard]

When you crank the bike and it's cold, it kicks up some like the choke is on. But after it warms up. the idle will drop a couple hundred rpm's and act like its
Gonna die. With the rpms lower the rpms drops pretty fast when you let off on the throttle. That along with the bike dropping in RPMs is what made me rise the
rpm's to 1056. AT 1056 when you let off on the throttle when you pull in the clutch the RPS don't drop as fast.

When I said something about the timing. I don't feel comfortable with ME Adjusting he timing and all on the map. I wouldn't know what I would be doing.
I have no knowledge of adjusting Timing .
I would be glad if we try to adjust it as long as I don't hurt the bike.
Its gonna get pretty cold tonite.
I will go down tomorrow and read what you posted on me dropping the rpms and running a monitor log.
How long will a monitor long run. Will it last long enough for me to get the bike to 275* ?

[saddle tramp]

The IAC monitoring will run from a cold start till it reaches 275* then you can shut it down.
You can watch the IAC make adjustments will it's working.
If you go to T-max control center it will tell you if your IAC needs adjusting, and you can watch what it adjusts as it's doing it.
This is from a cable bike not a FBW bike so I don't know if there would be any difference ?

[mayor]

there's no warm up type of auto learn that I can see on the TMax I (tbw) software

[saddle tramp]

there's no warm up type of auto learn that I can see on the TMax I (tbw) software

Mayor,
I have a fairly new unit and under the T-max control center it has a window that will tell you if you need to run the IAC auto calibrate. Maybe the earlier ones didn't have that ?

[mayor]

cardboard has a throttle by wire bike (no IAC).  The software is called TMax I, the one you are talking about is Gen 2

[saddle tramp]

well, like I said earlier, my info is from a cable bike not a FBW.

[cardboard]

cardboard has a throttle by wire bike (no IAC).  The software is called TMax I, the one you are talking about is Gen 2

Click on this link. Look at 2008-2011 TBW . This is the software for the year the Throttle by wire 1st come out on the touring bikes
Which is 2008 up to present on 2012. The maps are for TBW only.


See if this answers your question.

http://www.thunder-max.com/Support/Instructions/FuelInjectionSoftware.aspx

TMaxI Tuner 2010.2.13 FULL VERSION 
This is the one I have for my bike

[cardboard]

well, like I said earlier, my info is from a cable bike not a FBW.

I have both the CAble bikes which is like the 07 bike and the TBW bike on my  computer.
The maps are different and have different map numbers.

http://www.thunder-max.com/Support/Instructions/FuelInjectionSoftware.aspx


This is the version I have on my bike.

TMaxI Tuner 2010.2.13 FULL VERSION

[mayor]

I have TMax I full version 2011.0.4 

[cardboard]

I have TMax I full version 2011.0.4 

That's the version I have too. But I can't hold a candle to y'all on how to use it.

[mayor]

I'm with you fixer.   

Thanks Mayor, you've been a big help to me, and following your directions has made a big difference in how my bike runs !

oops...forgot to say, thanks for the compliment Fixer.