09 V&H Power Duals/Bungs

[Eglider05]

I’m in the process of building a 120r for my 05 Eglide and need to make a decision on the exhaust. I’m currently running 09 V&H Power Duals/4” Jackpots with a TMAX and leaning hard towards switching to TTS. Are there any known issues with 02 bung placement/depth with the V&H Power Duals?

[wurk_truk]

Yes.

Doc or Steve can tell you more, but I have been told by them to NOT run a V&H pipe.

[JohnCA58]

Anyone give the S&S (Khrome Werks) 2:2 with the interconnect pipe a try on a 120R  ,  only finding up to 103 c.i. dyno's with those head pipes.

[digga25]

I have heard this before about the V&H pipes.I heard that the depth of the bungs is too shallow and the o2 sensors dont get a good sniff of the exhaust and give a bad signal to the ecm. Is this the truth or what is the truth.Doc,Steve?

[digga25]

I am doing a build on  my 110 and I currently have V&H power duals.Looking to change if I cant get the numbers.Suggestions?

[Steve Cole]

All the V&H pipes I have seen or worked with have had issue with the bung placement and length. So if that's what you have you need to repair them to work properly or get something different. Many can be cut down to get the sensor out into the exhaust flow but you need to check yours and see what can be done.

[strokerjlk]

I am doing a build on  my 110 and I currently have V&H power duals.Looking to change if I cant get the numbers.Suggestions?

They work great on a 110 what numbers you looking for?

[FLTRI]

IME O2 operation with restrictive (not straight through) is much more reliable than with low restriction, straight through, mufflers.

So if the sensor is questionably mounted it may work OK but if the restriction (exhaust pressure) is reduced (straight through mufflers) the O2 signalling can be greatly reduced or even eliminated...especially when high overlap cam timing is used.

Then the decision becomes: Utilize the O2 sensors where they operate correctly, eliminate them altogether and run the bike in open loop, or my recommendation, fix the O2 mountings so they work properly.

Bob

[digga25]

Stroker  I have them on my 110,and I had been experiencing off  idle stumble.Not the tbw lag but a stumble that happens when you blip the throttle,or roll on hard like a skip. Would like to keep them for my 117 but I am afraid they wont work well.

[strokerjlk]

Stroker  I have them on my 110,and I had been experiencing off  idle stumble.Not the tbw lag but a stumble that happens when you blip the throttle,or roll on hard like a skip. Would like to keep them for my 117 but I am afraid they wont work well.

sounds like just a tuning issue,on your current setup.
no reason for any stumbles with that set up.
stage 1 cvo with that exhaust will do 95/115 no problem. and be smooth as silk.

depends on how hot your 117 is gonna be? the current mufflers might be the bottleneck then???

[Grillfish]

I keep hearing about V&H pipe issues, but also folks keep taling about the 2010 + headers with the O2 ports far downstream, close to the colector and causing cross talk at slow speed.  Truth to this too?  If so, seems like alot of exhausts out there the potential is there to have issues.

[FLTRI]

...folks keep talking about the 2010 + headers with the O2 ports far downstream, close to the collector and causing cross talk at slow speed.  Truth to this too?  If so, seems like a lot of exhausts out there the potential is there to have issues.

You've heard correctly, lots of aftermarket headpipes with O2 bungs that are in the wrong location and/or too long and pull the sensor effectively out of the exhaust stream.
Correct the problem or tune around it...or disable the closed loop operation and tune in open loop.

We have to subscribe to this if customer doesn't want to pay the shop to correct a pipe they just bought...yet don't want to give up any benefits of closed loop...mileage and fuel quality adaptability.

Some of the mfgs have taken the corrective measures to assure proper O2 signalling...V&H is NOT one of those mfgs...as a matter of fact they have stated they sell them as fast as they can make them.

HTH,
Bob

[hrdtail78]

If your 09 VH power duals have the bungs on the top outside of the pipe, 5 inch more downstream than the stock location.  They are not in a location that Bosch suggests.  The ones I have seen have too long of bungs also.

[Eglider05]

Here's a couple of pics. There doesn't appear to be enough meat to trim the bung. Any ideas on the best way to fix these?

Thanks,
Rick

Front


Rear

[mayor]

if there isn't enough threads to trim the depth down from the top, you will need to take from the bottom by cutting off the bungs, cut the depth down off the bottom, and re-welding them back on. 

[FLTRI]

Take a look at the new O2 bungs used by 2012 HDs.
They identified the issue SC and tuners have been harping on for more than a couple years now and developed a weld-in bung plate designed to actually get the sensor into the exhaust stream to assure good signalling.
Bob
PS - Tried to copy/paste the pic from the 2012 tech forum but didn't work. Maybe someone can post a pic of the new bung mounting?

[Eglider05]

PS - Tried to copy/paste the pic from the 2012 tech forum but didn't work. Maybe someone can post a pic of the new bung mounting?

I would sure apppreciate it.

Thanks,
Rick

[glens]

Here ya go.

[attachment removed after 60 days by system]

[Eglider05]

Here ya go.

Thanks.

Rick

[Eglider05]

Are there any known issues with bung placement/depth on the Propipe HO?

Thanks,
Rick

[FLTRI]

Are there any known issues with bung placement/depth on the Propipe HO?

Thanks,
Rick

Depends on the cam profile and which bung is used (18mm or 12mm).
We have had good luck tuning the HOs...on big inch applications.
Bob

[Eglider05]

Are there any known issues with bung placement/depth on the Propipe HO?

Thanks,
Rick

Depends on the cam profile and which bung is used (18mm or 12mm).
We have had good luck tuning the HOs...on big inch applications.
Bob

Haven't settled on cams yet but it would be going on a SE 120r and would be using the 18mm sensors. Currently using TMAX but will most likely be switching to TTS.

Thanks,
Rick

[Eglider05]

Are there any known issues with bung placement/depth on the Propipe HO?

Thanks,
Rick

Depends on the cam profile and which bung is used (18mm or 12mm).
We have had good luck tuning the HOs...on big inch applications.
Bob

Bob,

Is it the 18mm or 12mm that has issues?

Thanks,
Rick

[FLTRI]

Bob,

Is it the 18mm or 12mm that has issues?

Thanks,
Rick

Can be either one, O2 depth and placement angle are the biggest issues. Cam profiles with lots of overlap exacerbates the problem.
Bob

[wurk_truk]

Glens,

Could you look see if those bungs are available to the masses.  I am going to 'rebung' my D&D.  Right now, I will install new 18mm bungs up top, using 1/2 nuts welded to the pipe.  The 'old' bungs will be for EGT probes.

Evetually, I wish to make the switch over to Lambda.  Talking to SC has led me to believe that a simple 12mm half nut will NOT extend the O2s into the exhaust stream well enough.  That set of pix you dug up would be the 'fix' for that portion of a 6 bung pipe for sure.

[glens]

Like Bob said, I saw the pictures in the '12 Model Year Technical Forum PDF file and snagged the picture there.

I wouldn't know any better than you how to ferret out where they're made.  Sorry.

[Eglider05]

Do the sensors have to go in at an angle? I'm just trying to figure out what I would need to do to fix these pipes should I decide to go with them instead of a 2-1.

Thanks,
Rick

[Scotty]

Glens,

Could you look see if those bungs are available to the masses.  I am going to 'rebung' my D&D.  Right now, I will install new 18mm bungs up top, using 1/2 nuts welded to the pipe.  The 'old' bungs will be for EGT probes.

Evetually, I wish to make the switch over to Lambda.  Talking to SC has led me to believe that a simple 12mm half nut will NOT extend the O2s into the exhaust stream well enough.  That set of pix you dug up would be the 'fix' for that portion of a 6 bung pipe for sure.

You might need to drill a hole large enough in the pipe for the nut to fit through and with it threaded onto a bolt hold it up to the inside and tig it so that it gets the sensor close to the middle of the stream.

[mayor]

Do the sensors have to go in at an angle?

no

[wolf_59]

On the last O2 conversion I used the 1/2 nuts which I turn on the lathe just to knock the hex off, drilled the hole in the pipe and used a die grinder to enlongate the hole so the 1/2 nuts set down in the pipe on the ends and flush with the pipe on the sides

[Steve Cole]

A little trick you can do to help is to make a punch that is slightly larger around than the OD of the bung you are going to try and weld on. Take the punch and hit the pipe so that you get a small flat on the pipe right where you are going to place the bung for welding. This helps lower the probe into the pipe and if done nicely does look any different. This allows the bung to sit flat on the pipe for welding as well.

[Eglider05]

Front


Rear

Where do you guys buy your bungs? How far down the head pipe is too far? I'd like to just plug these and put new ones in a little lower but I have to go below the clamps for the heat shields. It looks like I'd have to be 6" down on the front and 9" on the rear.

Thanks,
Rick

[mayor]

Where do you guys buy your bungs? How far down the head pipe is too far? I'd like to just plug these and put new ones in a little lower but I have to go below the clamps for the heat shields. It looks like I'd have to be 6" down on the front and 9" on the rear.

why not cut those off, shorten them from the cut side, and reweld them back on.     The narrow bands are not heated, so I would think you would want them closer to the port than 9". 

[Eglider05]

Where do you guys buy your bungs? How far down the head pipe is too far? I'd like to just plug these and put new ones in a little lower but I have to go below the clamps for the heat shields. It looks like I'd have to be 6" down on the front and 9" on the rear.

why not cut those off, shorten them from the cut side, and reweld them back on.     The narrow bands are not heated, so I would think you would want them closer to the port than 9".

How about I just say screw Vance & Hines and they're crappy pipes . I actually have wide bands (TMAX). I shouldn't have to screw around with these things and have decided not to. I'm going to give the Dragula 2-1 a go.

Rick

[mayor]

    yea, I don't see me jumping into a set of V&H's anytime soon..at least not with a closed loop system. 

[Eglider05]

Delete

[Eglider05]

   yea, I don't see me jumping into a set of V&H's anytime soon..at least not with a closed loop system.

The more I look at these things the more I get pissed off. After doing some searches and reading the referenced Bosch material it's pretty obvious to me the sensors aren't near being in the pipe far enough. Looking back I was never completely happy with the tune after I put them on. I never had any issue with the Fatcat I had on previously.

Rick