Snowmobile Etiquette?

[f-x-d-w-g]

Why is it that snow mobilers feel they can ride their machines anywhere they want?  Does snow remove property lines?

How would these idiots like it if, come sping, I ride my bike across their yards?

Sorry, just needed to vent.

[Memnar]

Vent here 

http://www.snowest.com/forum/

They actually talked riding over others property in a post last month - from the riders perspective and land owners.

Its a good forum like HTT, mature and grown up, not a kiddie forum.

Erik

[FLH]

I've been riding snowmachines since '68. Back in the day, there was a different attitude toward land access. Where I lived, mostly everybody knew each other, and the land was rural. Snowmobiles were a sort of curiousity then, and when you rode by peoples places, they would wave, and the whole thing was just people that were used to being cooped up all winter were out having fun. Sleds from that era were slow and un-intimidating. They also didn't scar the land for the most part, and farmers were o.k. with them. In my personal experiences, we would ask permission to go through some of the properties to so as to turn a trail to nowhere into a trail with a destination (yeah, I know, usually a bar!). Hell, I remember a 50 mile ride in those days was an accomplishment due to primitive trails and constant mechanical issues. Through the years, the farmers fields grew that one time crop: houses. The city slickers moved in and the no tresspassing signs went up. It was hard for the native residents to accept, and so lots of em would ride where they used to causing obvious problems.
There's a totally different attitude today towards private land access. I sometimes think of all the places we rode and never really asked permission. Would I have liked it if it were my land? Probably. But I wouldn't want anyone riding through my door yard. I believe that if you access someones property now without asking, then that's just wrong. These days, I wouldn't even imagine riding on someone's property without asking. It's actually easy now where I ride, the work has been done by the snowmobile association, and the access has been granted.
So as a snowmobiler, sorry about some guys invading your property. Maybe a couple signs will send the message.

[chaos901]

Out of curiosity, since I live in the south, do snowmobile riders "wave"? 

Had to ask.

[bouncingVman]

Out of curiosity, since I live in the south, do snowmobile riders "wave"? 

Had to ask.

Yes we do, but its more out of safety. The lead guy usually holds up however many fingers for the number of people in his group. The next person usually holds up one finger less and so on... the last person shows a fist to show that he is the last person in that group. That way you are prepared to get over to let other people by. Some people are slower than the lead guy, so you know there is someone else coming around the bend.

As far as trespassing... it seems to be a more of a concern for city people around here. Farmers around here don't mind for the most part if they see a snowmobile following the fence line in their field to get to some other place. City people tend to get shook up more if you happen to cut a corner by their driveway or where ever. I have a snowmobile trail right through my front yard next to the road. There never has been any property damage by snowmobiles. I get more property damage by the city pushing snow up onto my lawn. It's just a part of winter for me.

I would suggest that if snowmobiles are cutting across your property ... then perhaps put up a couple of signs of a circle with a snowmobile crossed through it. Right or wrong... most people who snowmobile respect property rights... they just need to be reminded where the property lines lie. For what it's worth. -BVM

[slo-poke 03]

they have cut my famlies fence lines more than once over the years, you have to wonder what makes them think that is ok. I will say as with most things its some not all riders, but your not thinking that when you are streaching and splicing in the cold just because some a-hole felt it was his or her right to ride across your land.

[ricochet]

A significant portion of the OHRV training here in NH is about respect for property rights and these etiquette issues.  Most old and new respect that for the most part but like any other sport there are those few that don't and ruin it for all others.  Stands to reason it's those from that same element that find themselves either injured (if their number is not up), or dead. 

ricochet

[Rags722]

Our family used to have a 200 acre farm in NY, prior to the invention of snowmobiles and back when everyone knew everyone.  We never had a problem with cut fences or damage when snowmobiles first came on the scene, and if there was any damage, the riders would usually fix things up better than they were in the spring.  We were also members of the local Rod & Gun club, and opened our property up to all members ( they also posted it for us to keep non-locals off the land ).  That said, society has changed, and if I still had the property it would be closed to hunting, snowmobiling, dirt bike riding, walking, and sniffing the air.  The hard cold fact is, if someone gets hurt on your property and sues you, you don't have a leg to stand on if you admit you let people use your property for their entertainment... be it to ride a snowmobile, hunt, or take the kids for a walk in the woods.  All a lawyer has to do is show/prove that the land was known to be open for use and you are screwed.
As the new cash crop (housing) takes hold, you no longer know the people that are using your land, but they know you must have deep pockets because you own more dirt than they do.

[Ape_do]

LOL.

Good one, Chaos. Actually, we do have the equivalent of snowmobilers down here, but they're on dirt bikes & atv's. I build neighborhoods in my spare time and am constantly chasing the little dirt-bags off. In addition to the damage they cause from running over sprinkler heads, knocking over signs, & terrorizing people walking their kids on the sidewalks, the noise could drive one insane. What's sad is you'd think these were teenagers, but most are OF's like us that never learned any manners.

[bouncingVman]

Slo-poke 03,  f-x-d-w-g, sorry to hear of your troubles past and present.

Just so you all understand... I live literally in the middle of nowhere. LOL. I'm still in one of those areas that everybody knows everybody else... and the attitude toward snowmobiles are pretty much the same as mentioned earlier by FLH.

Even when we still raised cattle and put them out in the cornfield in early winter we didn't have people cutting our fence with a snowmobile... mostly because the fences were built 100 years ago and they used steel 4x4 mesh wire, topped off with two strands of barbed wire. A snowmobiler would know it when he went through it because it would rip you wide open.

Now most of those fences have been removed. Livestock is rarely turned out to field. It is all feed lot grown. Farmers simply don't complain around here if you happen to jump from the ditch to their side of the field for a little ways to hit a drift or two. There are no construction developments outside of town. And nobody would be caught riding across people's yards in town ... because... everybody knows everybody else. It's a different attitude... and a hard one to explain if you never experienced it. Not justifing trespassing in the least, but things are different depending where you are.

For what its worth....

[JamLazyAss]

Why is it that snow mobilers feel they can ride their machines anywhere they want?  Does snow remove property lines?

How would these idiots like it if, come sping, I ride my bike across their yards?

Sorry, just needed to vent.

f-x-d-w-g

I know you & I both live in the same general "neighborhood"
Where is this happening?
I'm not too far from the Great Northern Mall and to be honest, I've never had a problem with the sleds.
In fact, there are State Trails all around this area that you can follow to literally anywhere in the state.

In general, I see the snowmobile people on parr with we the biker folks,  in regards to respect, fun lovin, etc..
But remember, just as with bikers, it only takes a few to give the sport a black eye, same as bikes.

I rode my son's sled the other night. First time on one in thirty plus years.
And to be honest, what a blast! Never replace riding the bike, but still, what a blast...

[egstandard]

For me anyway, present day snowmobilers remind me of present day bikers. It all changed 20 years ago for both.
$ 45,000 for a SUV, covered trailer and a sled = instant snowmobiler
$ 25,000 or more for a Harley or clone = instant biker.

[f-x-d-w-g]

Jam,

I live southeast of Manlius in a neighborhood of 1-acre lots.  The track appears to come from the neighborhood across the main road, cuts through my back yard, and then to the shoulder of the street.  It's just someone's shortcut.

There's open land to the south and lots of trails where I see a lot of the sleds.  I was just venting about the rudeness.  This is probably the same guy that pulls out in front of you or turns left in front of you in traffic...

[Deye76]

A few years back, in a newspaper, they published a photo/article about an old lady (80's) who got tired of snowmobilers running through her front yard. She stopped a rider made him exit the machine, and used an old 8 gauge duck gun to customize the machine. The judge sympathized with the old women IIRC.

[JamLazyAss]

Dan,
I know the area a little. Guess that would tend to tick me off too.
Maybe you can try something like Deye76 has posted. 
Might be a little excessive, but she sure got her point across. 

Seriously though,
Think a small sign on a stake would help? Something that says No Snowmobiles?
Some folks are idiots, others might just may not be thinking or inexperienced.
The sign may or may not do it.
It's worth a try.

Good luck.

[FLH_Rider]

I live in Northern Michigan and a friend of my Son's uncle once had a guy go through his yard (not much snow in the yard). He had tore up the grass a little. Well he got the guy stopped and got his address and information for the insurance if it did not grow back in the Spring.
Well in the Spring he took a ride downstate in his 4X4 truck and drove through the guys yard (after a rain).........

Follow the tracks back and take a shortcut in the Spring after the thaw,,,,,,

[apes]

Since the inception of the NIKE slogan, "Just Do It", it seems that manners and responsibility of ones actions has gone out the door and infringing on someone elses property and possibly causing damage is the norm  and such behavior is reinforced if you can get away withought being caught.  As mentioned above liability should be of major concern.  Along with the city transplants who have taken over the countryside and farmlands 1 acre at a time, comes an attitude that anything bad that happens to them is someone elses fault and their lawyer can best explain it to you with a lawsuit. I grew up in the woods and it irritates me to say the least when I am hiking or hunting in my old stomping grounds and come across a gate across a road or a fence with a no trespassing sign, but as one who owns a piece of dirt and am concerned about  liability, I can sympathise with those who are posting.  

[Diggs223]

used to have a trail come through here. one idiot just drove his truck off through the field to get his broke down sled. if he would have came to the door I would have helped him. just ask.

[f-x-d-w-g]

Yaas...  Just ask...

Back in the 90s I lived in the Front Range of Colorado and owned a racing sailplane with a partner.  One day he called to tell me he'd landed out in a farmer's field near Limon.  When I arrived with the trailer, one of the farmer's dogs bit me and the man gave me some alcohol and a paper towell to clean up with.  Then he got on his tractor with a front loader and took down a section of his fence so we could get the trailer to the glider.

We offered to help him repair the fence but he said it was no problem.

[JamLazyAss]

"We offered to help him repair the fence but he said it was no problem."

He probably thought he would get a call from "The Heavy Hitters" at 1 800 LAW 1333"   
(Local lawyers that handle these type of lawsuits)

Just kidding.
He was probably just a down to earth guy, but I think the above is funnier.

If you ever ride out north of town, stop by and we can do a couple brews and drown some worms if and when ice age 09 melts off.

[Ape_do]

... it irritates me to say the least when I am hiking or hunting in my old stomping grounds and come across a gate across a road or a fence with a no trespassing sign, but as one who owns a piece of dirt and am concerned about liability, I can sympathise with those who are posting.  

Apes hit the nail on the head here. Our litigious society has driven us a sad state of affairs. I have some land with a large pond on it that I'm sitting on as an investment. I rarely go there, and could care less who fishes/hunts/whatever on it. However, my insurance underwriter dropped my policy on it last year because there were no 'no tresspassing' signs on it, and if someone were to shoot themself, or drown in the pond, then I was fully liable without those signs. They actually wanted me to fence it in!

However, there's always a way around these things. The more respectful members of the community gave me a call, requesting permission to continue fishing/hunting/riding/etc.. My answer was that if I knew they were out there, then I'm liable. However, with the posted 'no tresspassing' signs, then I'm not. Therefore, I tell them that I'm not aware (nor want to be) of their activity, but give them my personal assurance that I would never prosecute, should law enforcement bring them to my attention. Now, life goes on there as before.

[f-x-d-w-g]

Hey, Jam, I was thinking the same thing.  Maybe meet at the Dinosaur for a couple or any place up your way.