2012 TTS Tuning with engine changes

[Thumper Buttercup]

OK,

   We are putting the Bike back together after having to rebuild it, but I did
make a possible major change to the bike.  I went from the old Harley 42mm
intake to the HPI 51mm intake and back-plate.  Should I start a new thread
on Tuning the bike with a link to the old tuning post??

    Pistons are 95cu + .010 over, cylinders measure 3.882 across, heads measured
out at 84cc.  Going for .030 head gasket but I've got to check my deck height
first this weekend when I get the pistons and cylinders back on the bike.

    What changes do you guys think I will need to make??  I did lean out the
CLB'S to 720 back on Oct 2, 2011 trying to improve MPG, should I put that back??

Waiting on the oil rings for the Pistons (wrong ones came in our Total Seal package)

Original thread  http://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,41897.0.html


Mike check your PM's



Edit Title to reflect new Tuning with the TTS

[PanHeadRed]

    >What changes do you guys think I will need to make??<

Increase your bore .003"

[mayor]

    >What changes do you guys think I will need to make??<
Increase your bore .003"

what Red is saying is your cylinder measurement is either incorrect, or you don't have a big enough hole for 95" + .010" pistons (3.885" bore). 


you can probably leave the clb at 720.  I like a little richer myself, and would likely limit the clb to no leaner than 761.  I wonder if your worn rings may have been part of your milage issue last year.   

[Thumper Buttercup]

Hey Guys,

   That is the new Bore that WFO Larry did for our over-sized .010 SE flattop pistons
We had a little damage to the cylinder from the EMS Programmer dumping all the
fuel on us.  So Larry had to bore us out and we had to get new pistons for the
rebuild.

This measurement I took at the top of the cylinder with a digital gauge, same
measurement on both cylinders was the 3.882.  I'll double check them again but
I've checked them twice.

[mayor]

check to see if the pistons fit in the bore. That would be the first step to seeing if the bore is correct.   

[Thumper Buttercup]

OK,

    I must have held my tongue wrong, if I take my time I do just get 3.885
at two checks 90 degrees apart,  Pistons fit fine, been using them to place
the rings down in the bore to adjust the gap.

We are good to go, I double checked them at the bottom also.

Thanks guys.


Mike, do you think I should put my CLB'S back to where we started and see
what we get??  Hopefully we will be running in a couple weeks and git this
thing done!!!!

[mayor]

personally I would, but that's up to you. I think the 759 setting should be plenty lean enough to provide good milage.   

[Thumper Buttercup]

You want me to start off where I left off or start a new thread??

I'll change that last cal to 759 and go from there.  Heck I got to
look back at my post to see where we were.

[mayor]

 I would say at minimum we should change the clb's to 759, and go from there.  If you want, just use this thread to work on the tune.  Let me look at my notes.  I think we might want to make some adjustments to timing before you vtune.  I think some of the lighter MAP readings were likely a little too far advanced, and we may be able to smooth the engine out a little by reducing some timing in the 40-60 kPa columns (we had reduced it some, but I think we should go more).   I will play around with the previous cals we had for your bike and see if I can come up with a starter cal for vtuning. 

[mayor]

Mark, I think you should start your vtuning with the attached file.

[attachment removed after 60 days by system]

[Thumper Buttercup]

We'll we are finally there,

   We will wrap up the bike today, got two heat cycles done yesterday not just
letting her idle.

    We'll be taking her off the lift today and I'll hookup the computer to check it
out while we give her one last heat cycle.

Tomorrow we will get her out and tune.

[mayor]

cool, glad to hear your you may get to enjoy some riding this year. 

[Thumper Buttercup]

Hey Mike,

   We got the bike ready for tomorrow, I have started it 4 times two for heat cycles
and two to move the bike, one thing that jumps out is when the bike starts it jumps
to 2000 rpm's each time then drops back.  Must be the new intake??

Should I knock back the cranking fuel a little??.

[mayor]

it could be the cranking fuel value, but it could also be an intake leak. 

[lonewolf]

Try dropping the iac crank steps. 20 steps may be too much but it will be noticeable. IIRC you changed tb's?

[Thumper Buttercup]

Try dropping the iac crank steps. 20 steps may be too much but it will be noticeable. IIRC you changed tb's?

We went from the 41mm stock intake to the HPI 51mm intake, I did spray the
new Stock Harley intake seals with silicone to help them set.  My intake clamps
were flat.

The bike jumps straight to about 2000 rpm then immediately drops back to normal.
Other than this its real smooth.  I did a fast data recording when I took the bike
off the lift to another work area.

We'll make the changes first and then do a start-up, if it still jumps at start-up well
do a leak using the propane check.

Thanks Guys

[Thumper Buttercup]

OK,

Went out and checked the intake over, nice and tight, then
went in and changed the IAC Crank to Run dropped it in the
64 - 112 range and dropped it to 16.

Started the bike and she went to around 1800 rpms and not
as aggressively, dropped the range to 12 and now she does
hit around 1500rpm then drops.

Did a propane check and found no leaks in the intake.

So we will pack it up and go tuning.

[lonewolf]

I meant the IAC crank steps in the tuning constants not the crank to run table. I will use the crank to run to tweak it afterwards.

[Thumper Buttercup]

Bike ran great today,

    I think the larger intake is making the v-tunes easier.  My blocks held green and turned
green much easier.

    We only got 4 runs today, I started a new folder with all files from today.  This is our
3D graph from the last run.  No popping or any surprises today.  My rear is still showing
a bit of pink so we will do some more v-tunes and work the 70-77 mph area more.





This is my last Vtune for the day

https://www.box.com/s/29209fadc5959d6aacea

This was our Calibration for that file

https://www.box.com/s/b61844e9bc7eb1e5427b

Final Calibration file made from that run

https://www.box.com/s/c11856457598d94d45e4

This is our V-tune that made the last calibration for the day.




For all the data of today here is the folder I am using.

https://www.box.com/s/066bf6a3b0d66785dd28

[wurk_truk]

Starting to look good Mark.  I am SO glad to see you are back up and tuning again.

[Thumper Buttercup]

I don't know if it was the engine damage or the new intake
but this one seems to be coming around.  I've got to change
my air filter tomorrow, the HPI is so tall it keeps me from getting
to the break peddle.  I'm going to modify the HD air filter
stand-offs to fit the HPI back plate.

I'll then use my Exotic air filter, we will hopefully get in the rest of
the vtunes and then do some Data runs Wednesday.

It is good to be riding instead of working on this sucker.

[Thumper Buttercup]

OK got out and did a couple more Vtunes today, and a Data Run.

Mike, I'm running rich, the exhaust is hot and we are getting some
soot  on the endpipe.  I pulled the plugs last night and they looked
good to me, I'll pull them again tomorrow.  I've got a shot of the tail pipe
if you need it.

To me our data is looking good, no knocking on the data run and to me I think
the maps are looking good.  I forgot to save the first shot of the changes in the
VE's but I did remember to do the second.

OK Guys, take a look and see where we go from here, I loaded up the V-tunes,
you will see the two that were generated today and the final one where I turned
everything back on for the data run.

VTune 6  https://www.box.com/s/7df1efd29c207f109df3

Cal 9  from Vtune 6    https://www.box.com/s/036d23aadf40c598b2ea

This is the result of Vtune 7




VTune 7  https://www.box.com/s/d1aa25ffec03f0829408

Cal 10  from Vtune 7  https://www.box.com/s/1b5780229789cecd544d

Cal 11 from Cal 10 with all turned on  https://www.box.com/s/25618c170f509893415c

Here is the Scan Data from the run home today, Mike we has a couple disconnects
but managed to get it going again each time.

https://www.box.com/s/1a4a538de5d1f7815412




Here is a shot of our Front and Rear VE's a lot better than last year.

[mayor]

you need to work on your cal and vtune labeling.  The cal number you ran during the vtune needs to match, so that we can follow along.  I downloaded and tried to match vtune 6  and 7 with cal 9 and 10, butI couldn't duplicate what you posted in your ve's.    

which cal and which vtune run was the ve chart you posted?  I think we should tweak the egr tables, but I need to see the vtune with low map highted to see how far off the tables are. 

Cal 11 from Cal 10 with all turned on  https://www.box.com/s/25618c170f509893415c 

if that's the cal that ran hot, I know why.     you missed resetting your afr chart.  you were running to the vtune afr settings. 

[Thumper Buttercup]

you need to work on your cal and vtune labeling.  The cal number you ran during the vtune needs to match, so that we can follow along.  I downloaded and tried to match vtune 6  and 7 with cal 9 and 10, butI couldn't duplicate what you posted in your ve's.    

which cal and which vtune run was the ve chart you posted?  I think we should tweak the egr tables, but I need to see the vtune with low map highted to see how far off the tables are. 

Cal 11 from Cal 10 with all turned on  https://www.box.com/s/25618c170f509893415c 

if that's the cal that ran hot, I know why.     you missed resetting your afr chart.  you were running to the vtune afr settings.

I ran out without my cheat sheets and was doing this from my bad memory .

Heck I was worried I did the wrong Data run.

I'll clean up the naming and delete the files on Boxnet and upload the renamed
ones later today.  With the weather coming we are parked for a few days here.

Thanks Mike


One last Question, why is she running so hot during a vtune, Kim said she really
felt the heat all day.

[mayor]

One last Question, why is she running so hot during a vtune, Kim said she really
felt the heat all day.

when you are vtuning, you are running leaner settings in the higher load areas than typical which generates heat.  I wouldn't worry about engine heat until you switch to regular use mode, with all the charts set to normal.