Torque Plates?

[96flhpi]

Are they needed when boring shovel cylinders?  Always thought they were because, well, why else would they exist?  Two indy's I'm thinking of taking my cyls. to told me they aren't necessary.  Is that true, or should I stay away from those indys?  Any thoughts?

Thanks in advance.

[shovelbill]

hey there 96,
  i always believed and 'thought' i understood it knuck/pan/shovel cylinders didn't need to be bored with torque plates as they are not through bolted like evo/twinkie cylinders. this is done on them to simulate the final cylinder shape after assembly and torqueing down. but i've been reading up on it and find that our cylinders due in fact distort when base and head bolts are torqued down, more so during an extreem overbore. i  guess you'll find opponent's and proponant's either way. here'a a little read i found that enlightened me a bit. http://www.hydra-glide.com/kb/kb5/kb5.37.php
hopefully smarter and more experienced guys will chim in and givesome points of view.   be well 96,  Bill

ps: i looked more into this since i found a guy that makes billet cylinders, here's that link: http://www.visiongrinding.com/

[stroker800]

   They are a definite with an evo cylinder and are recommended for shovels...There plenty of shops that have been doing bore jobs for years without them, they were never deemed needed til the evo,,,I perfer a shop that use them on my shovel,,,it's your motor and your money.
Dave

[Hillside Motorcycle]

We've used 'em in the Shovel application, and only seems to affect the top 3/4" of the hole.

[patmen]

As said, a must on Evos The cylinders are fixed with studs to the cases an compressed  during torque down. For the Shovles only the upper part where the bolts passes for the head fixation is compressed when fixing the cylinderhead bolts. So only a torque plate fixed in place of the cylinder head is neede and  fixed  with the right torque. The base of the cylinders are fixed separatly to the cases . The bolts passing outside of the cylinder material (lips) , thus the material is not stressed. This is the way I' m doing it when reboring shovel cylinders
Patmen

[96flhpi]

Thanks for replies.  So I guess the gist is they weren't used when shovs were new, but now that they're around they should be used.  Seems like it certainly wouldn't hurt, even if they aren't absolutely necessary.

[Ultrashovel]

If I recall correctly, the Shovelhead manual sows torque plates used on Shovelheads.

[96flhpi]

If it does I missed it in both the HD and Clymer.

[Ultrashovel]

If it does I missed it in both the HD and Clymer.

On page 3-24 of the 1978-1/2 HD Service manual there is a diagram (3-18) showing measurement of a Shovelhead cylinder bore. They are using Torque Plates P/N HD 44336. There is a top and bottom plate bolted on during the measurement process. They mention that cylinder measurements are to be made "under torque load".  I tried to copy the page but it's on PDF and it won't copy. 

So, while it doesn't show an actual picture of the cylinders being bored, it only makes sense that if you are to use torque plates to make measurements, you would also need to have torque plates in place during boring to provide the conditions found when the cylinders are bolted in place. 

Of course, machinists who bore cylinders know this and, whether they use the Harley Torque Plates or not, when the cylinder is bolted down for boring they use smiilar fixtures to do the work.


That's my story and I'm stickin to it.

[96flhpi]

I stand corrected, sir.  Use of plates IS in the HD manual both for measuring and "fitting cylinder to piston" section on page 3-25.  Man I read that thing three times before posting the ques. and missed it on both pages.  Thanks.

[crazycanadian]

Yup it matters.. top 3/4 or 1 and half and if you use paper gaskets on the base it'll stress down there to.

[Ultrashovel]

I stand corrected, sir.  Use of plates IS in the HD manual both for measuring and "fitting cylinder to piston" section on page 3-25.  Man I read that thing three times before posting the ques. and missed it on both pages.  Thanks.

Aww shucks, 'taint nuthin'.