Sleeving TC lifter bores

[drs23]

Seems as though I recall reading here where someone (perhaps one of the head porters?) made mention of sleeving lifter bores when they were out of spec. Well I have one.

Don't know if anyone will recall but a few years ago while on the road I had a lifter let go. I had just replaced the entire set before departing so so much for "preventive maintenance". That was about 63k ago and it seemed as though my motor had been making a little more noise the last couple of thou. I had a broken exhaust stud so I finally cleared a lift just to replace the stud. Well, we all KNOW how that goes. The jugs looked kinda scored, though there was no oil consumption nor was there any smoking. Ended up doing a top end, (bored take off jugs to my pistons, re-ring) and shimmed my valve springs to get the seat pressure back up. I figured while I was there I'd have a peek in the cam chest. Checked the runout on the S&S 106" pinion shaft it's .0015, close enough for me. I thought they'd walked but after finding the shape the front motor mount and the stabilizer links were in I *think* I found my subtle increase in vibration  All replaced now so hopefully she'll be as smooth as before.

Here's what I found in the cam chest. This is the rear intake lifter bore. The one that ate sh*t in Ruidoso.



My machinist came by last nite and looked at it. Said "no problem". Said he had some 7075(?) he'd turn down to the diameter remaining after he cleans up and steps the original bore, and countersink the top so he can make that diameter large enough to allow the roll pin to sit on. We're going to heat the case half, freeze the new liner, press it in with green locktite then reclaim the oil galley. He made it sound like just another day at the office.

Sure hope he's right 'cause as we all know, these cases are unobtainium. At least with OEM #s. Not to mention the fact that I can AFFORD this price tag as opposed to any other route. I don't know about all the other shops out there, but the ones around here, including mine, have DIED since the first.

I'll photo document the process and post here as we get into it. Time to go pull the motor and split the cases. Oh well, just 4 more bolts.

Dale

[Jeffd]

yikes. 

[nc-renegade]

Sounds like he knows what he's doing.  They make inserts for small block Chevy's to do just that.  You can do a google search for it.

[FSG]

He made it sound like just another day at the office.

For a good machinist it is.

[Clintster]

I had made inquiries regarding this, seems the probability it would be needed was just a matter of time.  The one fella who talked about it was suggesting bronze I believe,  I have the guys address somewhere.  Anyhow what part of the Country are you in?  I will want to be able make sure the bores are good.  I have had some folks who do performance for a living tell me from the factory these bores are not all that good.  Please e-mail me I would like to get the sleeves so when I take it down, I can do the bores.  It will be a while but want to be certain they are good.          thanx, clint

[PoorUB]

I know I would take a crack at rebuilding it. After all, what do you have to loose?
I don't see where it would be a big deal to a skilled machinist. As for the material for the bore, most anything would work, bronze would be a good choice, even most any old aluminum he has laying around would do it too. I wounder why more shops don't offer the service?

[Sonny S.]

I think 932 or 954 Bronze would be the cats ass

[jsachs1]

Need to be careful with heat vs. green Locktite.
John

[truck]

Isn't green used for high temperature applications?
They used green in the heat sealer machines at the battery factory.

[jsachs1]

Had a shop drop off a head that was cracked,and a guide 3/4 of the way in.Said they tried to install the frozen guide,with green Loctite in a hot head,and it seized on the way in.
John

[Deye76]

John, would one use heat, or green loctite, but not together? What would be the preferred method? Have not seen anyone re-sleeve these TC cases yet. Thanks.

[drs23]

Clintster,

I'm in SE TX. Am going to get it split today (as soon as the shop warms up) and we're scheduled to get it to his shop this coming Sunday morn.

Did you find the guy's address that had talked about it before? As far as the other three bores, there seems to no slop in any direction which surprised me somewhat having run the 6HGs in excess of 150k. At this point we're going to leave them alone.

FSG, I'm pretty sure that's the key. He's made alot of trick parts for me in the past that have turned out show quality so I have all the confidence that this sleeve will do the trick as well.

Will keep all posted,

Dale

[drs23]

John,

Missed your post earlier. May need to rethink that approach. Certainly don't need to complicate matters any more than they already are. Thanks for the heads up.

Dale

[Ultrashovel]

If the parts are fitted properly, there would really be no need for Loctite. In fact, i can't imagine how the Loctite would be able to stay in there if the parts is an O.S. press fit. The main issue with a repair like this would be getting the new hole in on the same exact angle within a few ten-thousandths of an inch.

I wouldn't use aluminum for a sleeve. Some version of phosphor bronze would be fine. I have an aftermarket set of Chinese chrome-plated lifter blocks in my '82 Shovelhead that are bronze bushed from the factory.

When I first read about the fact that the TC had the lifters running directly in the aluminum case, I wondered when this issue would come up. Harley used to sell .005 O.S. cam followers for Shovelheads and Evos but apparently they gave up on that with the TC's. they want you to buy a new bike when this one wears out. LOL.

[nc-renegade]

Here's a place that sells lifter sleeves.

http://www.bhjproducts.com/bhj_content/products/liftersleeves/lbs.php

This has been done with small block Chevy's for a long time. I've thought about doing mine next time I take the engine down.  I've thought about building a jig just for this purpose.

[Clintster]

I e-mailed the guy who sent me mail on the subject.  I was thinking he had done it, by the e-mail it wasn't clear.  I directed him to this post.

[02FYRFTR]

Yes, it can be done.  Did all four bores on a Twin cam almost two years ago and still running with no problems.  We used 660 bronze.  Measured the oil gallerys in the case and pre machined them in the plugs before shrinking into the case also had a shelf on the 660 inserts that locked into the anti rotation pin for good measure.  Did all the work on the bridgeport with adjustable angle plate, lathe to turn the plugs, sunnen hone to finish bores.  Set up the lifters to run at .0006" total clearance.  Probably could do a lot faster the second time around.  For the first time around we could have bought a new set of cases for less than time in the shop.  Materials were a freebie and so was the machine time as I was the maint. manager at the facility.  Would only do again if nothing better or affordable.

[drs23]

Thanks much for the info. Talked to my machinist this PM and 660 is what he decided on after talking to some of the pump rebuilders at his shop. I'll print the reply and show it to him when he comes by tomorrow afternoon.

Thanks much again,

Dale

[jsachs1]

After some of the things I've seen,I would be scared to put Loctite on anything that's going into a part that has been heated(hot) 
When I do guides,I check interference fit,heat the head,freeze the guide after coating with assembly lube,and install.NO LOCKING chemical.
John

Reply #16 is on the money.

[drs23]

John,

Thanks again for the sage advise garnered obviously by experience. The locktite was my uneducated idea. Tom, my machinist, is thinking in line with you. Make it a .0015 (+/-) interference fit, stepped and locked and "let it eat". I'm going to bow to the knowledge here. I feel I'm in good hands and have been given great advice by both yourself and 02...as well as Tom.

Dale