singh groove

[txtech]

i"m to lazy to read all 11 pages,how about somebody just tells me if the grooves help when using domed pistons???to much turbulence with domed?? need to lose a couple of ccs anyways.

[Admiral Akbar]

Not sure it's been tried but I'm giving it a shot.. Going to use a ball end mill in the dome at the slot to direct whatever comes out of the slot upwards..

Max

[Rokinrider]

Guys, headwork is my next step in my qwest for more. I aint the sharpest tack in the box so i gotta ask. what do you get from doing these?  From what I'm reading MPG is one of them. Please explain.

Thanks Rokin>>>--->

[Admiral Akbar]

Well,

I've got a 116 with the grooves..

claims are,

lass chanck of pinging,

can run a leaner mixture and less timing,

Better mileage maybe even a little better performance..

Cooler running motor

Smoother idle..

I've seen and increase in mileage, cooler running, easier starting, and smoother idle. Maybe a little bit better low / mid range/ top end but I got a little more flow out of the heads when I changed the valves. .. Anyway it's enough of a difference that I know it ain't hurting... Max

[txtech]

Not sure it's been tried but I'm giving it a shot.. Going to use a ball end mill in the dome at the slot to direct whatever comes out of the slot upwards..

Max
[/quote}  sounds like a good idea,post a pic when your done.

[sfmichael]

 

[sfmichael]

 
nuthin??

[hotroadking]

I've seen and increase in mileage, cooler running, easier starting, and smoother idle. Maybe a little bit better low / mid range/ top end but I got a little more flow out of the heads when I changed the valves. .. Anyway it's enough of a difference that I know it ain't hurting... Max

Hey that sounds like the grooves really help that engine................... sing! 

I couldn't help myself.....

[Shadowdog]

Well,

I've got a 116 with the grooves..

claims are,

lass chanck of pinging,

can run a leaner mixture and less timing,

Better mileage maybe even a little better performance..

Cooler running motor

Smoother idle..

I've seen and increase in mileage, cooler running, easier starting, and smoother idle. Maybe a little bit better low / mid range/ top end but I got a little more flow out of the heads when I changed the valves. .. Anyway it's enough of a difference that I know it ain't hurting... Max

Ditto, except mine is an 88"

[V24me]

Ive got a 95" built (106hp and 106tq)  I grooved and was able to take off a little timing with better dyno results, a little easier starting, a little smoother running motor, and a little better mpg.  I don't know about the pinging.  Still getting some occasionally. 

I'd say it was noticable, and worth it if you're in there, but I would never pull it apart just to groove.

[Reddog74usa]

I'm runin grouved heads in a  95 inch WT26 build with dommed pistons and have to say it's a load of crap. Thats all the technical data I have on it. I'd just get the heads done right n rock n roll

[Admiral Akbar]

Of all the IC books I like this one the best.

http://www.amazon.com/Internal-Combustion-Engine-Fundamentals-Heywood/dp/007028637X

While Heywood does not talk about Singh grooves, he has a section that talks about the combustion process. One of the important points he makes is that the process have vary cycle to cycle due to the randomness of the burn. IMO the groves reduce that variation from burn to burn making the process more consistent. This allow the motor to perform better in some of the areas discussed here.. On my 116, I'm probably not getting the mileage I thought I was but then it's hard to get real good mileage with a G when I like to get on it.. Still the motor runs great, seems cooler yada, yada..


Max

[Admiral Akbar]

I'm runin grouved heads in a  95 inch WT26 build with dommed pistons and have to say it's a load of crap. Thats all the technical data I have on it. I'd just get the heads done right n rock n roll

You been talking to Red too much..    I do think that the groves will have less of an effect with domes. Max

[PanHeadRed]

it's a load of crap. Thats all the technical data I have on it.

ROFLMAO!

Max he ain't been talk'n to me, but that's some funny $hit.

IMO the groves reduce that variation from burn to burn making the process more consistent.

This I gotta hear,.... please explain.

[Admiral Akbar]

You need to blow the money on the book first..    Max

[rbabos]

I put the groove in on my 113, but have no way of knowing what , if anything they have helped since never ran this engine without them. Stuck them in because it can't hurt anything and might help. For what it's worth I have never heard this thing ping. Recently dropped to 91 octain and even with 10.5-1 no hint of detonation. A 3 degree timing drop was done at the same time and honestly I cannot detect any less performance by doing so. Do they work? Who knows, but won't hurt anything by having them.
Ron

[PoorUB]

I put the groove in on my 113, but have no way of knowing what , if anything they have helped since never ran this engine without them. Stuck them in because it can't hurt anything and might help. For what it's worth I have never heard this thing ping. Recently dropped to 91 octain and even with 10.5-1 no hint of detonation. A 3 degree timing drop was done at the same time and honestly I cannot detect any less performance by doing so. Do they work? Who knows, but won't hurt anything by having them.
Ron

Pretty much my opinion too.
I built a 95" with Andrew 26 cams, milled heads with grooves. After I got it sorted out I gained ~25 HP and ~25 ft/lbs, and two MPG on the highway over stock. The bonus was I ran anything I wanted for gas and it did not care, no pinging on low grade and ethynol blend. Did the grooves help? Maybe, but I know they did not hurt!

[sfmichael]

Talked to Sailor285 who said somewhere in the midst of all this he was gonna tear his down (in his words it "was a f*&cking pingmonster") and add only the grooves and make no other changes. I'm happy to report he's got it up and running and he says 99% of the pinging is gone. With no other mods, that's hard to argue with.
I know PHR is super sharp and I respect his opinion (and most others) immensely, but I've not assembled mine yet and now can't see putting it together without doing this.
Sometimes stuff is hard to quantify or prove, but I think Brode or someone said sometimes you just go with what you know works (or something to that effect) and they sure can't hurt anything, I'm smart enough to know that. And I can see where helping the combustion get to the quench area faster/easier could be a benefit.

[mayor]

I know PHR is super sharp and I respect his opinion (and most others) immensely

you had to go and put that in writting didn't you....  he probably already has that printed it out, framed, and has it hanging on his wall. 



I've got two bikes with grooved heads, and for the most part I'm still groove neutral.  I still can't say with absolute certainty that the grooves are making a difference, mainly because I have no control data to compare too. The only thing I know for sure that I have run both bikes fairly lean at different times ( )...but neither showed major signs of being lean.  The only time I had audible ping when running lean was when the temperatures were fairly hot (95+) and the load was fairly heavy (70+mph up a mountain).  This was while I was running 200 (tw37) and 210 (tw54) mains, and L needles on my 95" Cv44 bikes.  A 220 main on my lowrider (tw54) with the same needle went north of 15:1 under the same conditions based on an afr meter, so I know I was leaner than that with the smaller mains.  Did the grooves help keep me from having more audible ping under these conditions? dunno...but I think they can easily be summed up by saying "can't hurt".   

[Sailor285]

95 " se heads .030 cometic.. reworked cv se ac  andrews tw44 supertrap super meg..Damn thing pined all the time!  Finally put it back together . the only mods were the grooves. Left everything else the same. I have to say 99% of my pining is gone Been out ion 90 deg weather in NH and it pinged like heel always before..now it did it only a little once in a while under a heavy load up hill after idleing in Laconia bike week traffic! For me it was well worth the effort! NO othe changes but the grooves!  Im very happy I did it!


Dan