singh groove

[Faast Ed]

From the good results my homemade grooves are getting...It appears you don't need a mill....or even a garage...

Now that is one of the funnier things that I have read in a while!

[PanHeadRed]

Ed, it looks like you pulled the heads off after running them. Sup?

[wfolarry]

Ed, it looks like you pulled the heads off after running them. Sup?

He did it first with stock valves then everybody told him he needed bigger valves so he did it over. Now if he would have listened to me...............

[Faast Ed]

He did it first with stock valves then everybody told him he needed bigger valves so he did it over. Now if he would have listened to me...............

Zactly!!!!

I did it with stock valves as Larry recommended, then I listened to all the "experts" on the internet and two weeks after installing them I pulled them again for the bigger intake valves.
While I had them off and getting worked on, the other "experts" came back and lambasted me for going to the bigger valves.  LMAO!  Same thread, 1st half telling me I needed bigger valves, second half of the thread yelling at me for doing so.  Grrrr!   I love the internet!


Hindsight: I should have left them alone like my head porter (Sweet Larry) recommended.  Oh well, someday I'll build the motor to match the intake valves. LOL


[move][move][move][move]≡Faast Ed>[/move][/move][/move][/move]

[Faast Ed]

Aww, they ain't pickin' on me.    (yet).  LOL

Must admit it was a nice opening for me to vent.   LOL


Hey Vic, you got me eyeballin' the edit function! LOL

[Arrowsmit]

Hey no one called to say we were gonna pick on Ed this morning

They're too busy calling a different guy.  HAHAHAHA

VicW.

[Arrowsmit]

Danggit Ed, I mis-reread your post & thought you'd edited it so I removed mine. LOL!

VicW.

[Faast Ed]

Danggit Ed, I mis-reread your post & thought you'd edited it so I removed mine. LOL!

VicW.

(Vic was teasin' me about the "Sweet Larry" comment.)

Havin' too much fun this morn to delete my stupider comments!  LOL


Here is an example of me and 05 racing:

05FLHTC
[move][move] ≡Faast Ed>[/move][/move]

[Arrowsmit]

Whoa, waiiiitaminit...are we allowed to have fun here??

VicW.

[PanHeadRed]

 I listened to all the "experts" on the internet 

Ahhh, yes, now I remember. What's the opinion, good move, bad move?
Explain the butt Dyno difference please, you can email private if you prefer.

Larry, who's the cutie pie in the pic?

[Valley]

  You guy's are killing me.It' going to be a long winter

[wfolarry]

I listened to all the "experts" on the internet 

Ahhh, yes, now I remember. What's the opinion, good move, bad move?
Explain the butt Dyno difference please, you can email private if you prefer.

Larry, who's the cutie pie in the pic?

That's my daughter Allison. 9 yrs. old next month. Just got home from our date. Seen Beverly Hills Chiauha. Nexy week it's Madagascar2. Fastest kid in the 3rd grade. {must be in her genes ]

[Faast Ed]

Ahhh, yes, now I remember. What's the opinion, good move, bad move?
Explain the butt Dyno difference please, you can email private if you prefer.

I don't have a lot of info for you Red.  The stock valves were in there for only two weeks, in the dead of winter.  
To make matter worse, there was a pipe change involved. Krome Werks slip-ons to the Rush slip-ons.
No time for the butt dyno to feel much more than cold (on the way to the tuner and back 15 miles away).

Dyno showed nothing eye catching for improvements.   Basically I believe they were not needed and if I gained it wasn't much.
I think I was expecting miracles with the new "donut" cam and was reaching for chit to gimme miracle numbers. Ended up with acceptable numbers instead.   Would have preferred the miracle numbers! LOL

[Sonny S.]

Fastest kid in the 3rd grade.

Could be the " grooves " in her sneakers     

RPH, they groove those sneakers for a reason ya know ?

[retyddone]

Hay guys how deep and long are the grooves? I am putin some 95" J&E pistons in with HQ 34 cams and would like to do the grooves.
Thanks
Tuna

[PanHeadRed]

Winter? Where the hell were you last summer? This has be going on for a while. Mayor loves those grooves so much he is considering changing his name to "Starving Train Rider".

>Genes< !LOL!

Larry, no doubt, daddy's girl huh? Happy Birth Day to Allison.

[mayor]

Mayor loves those grooves so much he is considering changing his name to "Starving Train Rider".

decided to ad that to my signiture instead...

[Ken R]

I just wish that somone could post actual A:B comparisons on a dyno (before and after grooving the heads).   I've been searching the Internet for a couple of weeks and all I find is "seat of the pants" remarks.  Just ONE dyno comparison with AFR, octane, and ignition timing comparisons with nothing done except the grooves would be nice.   

Ken

[Sonny S.]

Ken,

That's where a lot of the confusion comes in about the grooves. I don't recall Dave Brode or WFOARRY ever claiming they made MORE power. I know that some others have claimed more power. Maybe the extra power came from finally getting their bike tuned right.
The grooves are more about efficiency. Getting more of a complete burn by directing air and fuel that may be trapped in the squish band in to the combustion chamber. That trapped mixture can also cause detonation ( pinging ).

Claims are more along the lines of :
Making same power with less fuel and timing, better gas mileage, no pinging, able to run higher compression, can often run on 89 octane with no problem. Smoother running at low rpm's.

Sure, if you lean anything out enough you get good mileage. Well, Dave Brode did a 10:1 BB, 203 bike, and he couldn't even run the N65C ( popular ) Sportster needle without it being blubbery rich. Ran stock needle / jetting as I recall.

Anyway, hope that helps,

Sonny

[Faast Ed]

Just ONE dyno comparison with AFR, octane, and ignition timing comparisons with nothing done except the grooves would be nice.   

I thought tireater did something close to that recently. Not the last dyno's he posted, but a few weeks prior?

Maybe he can clear us up on that.

[tireater]

Sonny is probably right...the extra power I got was probably due to getting the tune right after I put the grooves in...

[hotroadking]

Have you looked at the inventors new 2007 images, just wondered how he determined the number of grooves as well as positioning of the grooves.

It appears as if you should install the plug that you are going to be using in the head and then cut one of the grooves to point at the plug tip where the spark would be created, if that is so, to create the proper effect then you would have to mark the plug (index) and be sure that all plugs inserted in the heads were indexed properly for this to occur.

That brings about a question as to the effectiveness of the groove for total combustion vs. simply indexing a plug..  or not.... until someone can do some verifiable testing (lab) that is consistent and accurate and validated it's going to be tough to say they do anything at all but increase the combustion chamber size by a very tiny amount.

Also those of you cutting the grooves, have you placed the head gasket on the head and marked where you'll put in the grooves so as not to go too far back and then provide a hot spot on top of the gasket where it could eventually burn a path through the head and cause a leak?

If it can flow towards the spark plug, the flame front can flow outward if you go to far as well...

[tireater]

Forget the extra power I got....I'm happy as a clam with the extra 30+ miles per tank on the bagger....
If ya go too far with the groove...a little...JB Weld....a lot...TIG...No worries...!!!

[RevFastEddy]

I guess I am going to disagree with all this grooving. In the chamber the squeeze area makes the gasses flow away from the cylinder walls back into the central combustion chamber area. Adding an additional channel does next to nothing in my book. What I see it doing is slightly lowering compression. Next it allows combustion gasses a place to reside that is cooled by the additional surface area in the channel and it may even create greater emissions problems depending on the volume of the channel. Just like the gap between the piston and cylinder. If the tapered channel directing air towards the center of the chamber the best example may be better conceived if the head area had a 2 or 3 degree taper allowing for a tighter squish at the cylinder edge than at the edge of the chamber. I guess anyone can patent anything and I can even have an opinion but adding channels to the heads has never been adopted by any major manufacturer in the history of engines and it is not new. There have been variations on these channels since before I was born and that is a long time ago. Keep the squish tight. Keep the piston to cylinder clearance tight and properly form the combustion chamber and everything will work just as well or better.

[Tattoo]

Keep the squish tight. Keep the piston to cylinder clearance tight and properly form the combustion chamber and everything will work just as well or better.

My head builder told me the same excact thing when I asked him about it.

Tireater you got a extra 30+ miles per tank??