Open belt primary on a 1980 FLT

[1980 Tourglide]

Hello everybody,

I'm thinking of changing my ever leaking primary to an open belt primary.
Anyone has experience with doing that on a 5-speed shovel?

Thanks.

[Old Crow]

Damn, and me and 76 thought *we* liked to tinker. 

Welcome to HTT.  I'll be watching this, I've got a couple of FLT's, and one's a Shovel. 
Where, exactly does your primary leak?  That's about the only bike I have that I can get the primary to seal on.  Of course I'm not counting the the enclosed final chain boots.  No one still alive can stop them from leaking.

[KatalogKarl]

  Ah the love of owning a shovel. Yes I had the same thing when it came to my1982 fxr when I got to about 5k. It seems that the motor company never really covered this problem well. be it that with my fxr it leaked through the shifter and spots on the cover.On your Flt is the cover (outer) Factory or Aftermarket? This is a 5-speed model right? Aftermarket covers never sealed ( not machined well) and never fitted right. I had a open belt on my fxr and had cut an old outer cover to hold the jackshaft and shifter. But this was only a 1 1/2 belt. Belts only lasted a few thousand miles before they had to be changed. ( oil leak from motor eventually killed the whole idea). But I say if your set on using a belt, make sure no leaks from the tranny and motor and it'll be a straight foward install.Belt Alignment and tracking will be the key.  I remember primo/rivera was the brand i used. I still have the fxr but i lube the primary chain up with a item that can handle heat. ( chain is enclosed and vented now) But i do  look into and relube every 2500 miles or so. Since the primary is lightly oiled  (in yours, No bath like now) i believe your only thought is closing off the supply from the rest of the oil system and again alignment and tracking. Heat will be an issuse with a enclosed primary if you wish to go belt/closed primary. You also have to see if you want to run a bigger belt than 1 1/2, floorboard(left side) might be a problem also. But just ask more questions here and you will get a wealth of responses. Good luck...   

[1980 Tourglide]

Thanks for help guys.
However, I cotacted Rivera-Primo and they said they don't have an open belt drive for 5-speed shovels. BDL have a kit called SHS-600 that will somehow fit but requires modifications like getting an Evo style starter, modified clutch release etc.
As for the leaks, I have an original outer primary cover, I installed new gaskets, put the best sealing compound, and still get drops of oil wherever I stop. The leak is from the bottom of the primary.

Old Crow, The enclosed rear chain is a bitch, but mine is dry. You just need to clean everything very well, use a lot of RTV and a lot of paitience (Thease little unreachable Allen screws can drive you nuts), let it dry for one day and it will be leak free.
I'm gonna get reed of damn thing anyway, put an o-ring chain and not worry about oil issues no more.

KatalogKarl, did you use a kit the was designed for a 4-speed shovel or 5-speed evo?

If anyone knows about an open belt drive that is built for 1980-1984 5-speed rubber-mount FLT/FXR, please let me know.

Thank again for the replies.

[76shuvlinoff]

check with these folks

http://www.supermax.net/

[KatalogKarl]

Hey 1980 tourglide, I figured as much. You do know your year is the first one with a 5-speed. My 82 fxr was the first setup in a non flt style. Okay so follow me here, I used the stock inner and all of Rivera-primo guts because there was no open belt system for the 5 speed back in 1985-86. I still used the outer cover but as Arlen Ness had done to one of his, I used a hole-saw to aerate the cover alot. And I still kept the mid shifter. Took some doing but at that time I only ran a 1 1/2 in a semi open way. Now I have looked into the Bdl model you described and it gets pricey for sure. Jammer makes a total open ( no inner at all ) they sell you everything, But again its not cheap ( somewhere like 3k or so). If its a leak that bothers you and you have checked the straightness of the inner and outer primary covers for and no dings and nicks, hairline cracks you'll have to get creative here. Some older guys than me her in my neck of the woods run with cone/knuckle motor 5 speed trans in a 4 spd box they run a modified outer cover with the jackshaft part used. One was with a 11/2 and the other like a 2 inch belt. And with i think like a all balls starter. But these are rigids not a dresser like yours. See what 76shuvlinoff fed you and see how things go. But look at everything you can get your hands on. Alot of stuff that years ago worked are no longer around. Use your computer here as many of the bike parts guys have online catalogs. Just google the names a see what you get. Enjoy and keep us posted.   

[fxrrider]

You have to remember when you put the bike on the kickstand the primary is the lowest point, so fluid goes to the lowest point before it drops. I have sealed my primary so many times swearing I'm going to stop that leak with no luck. one time I washed it all down and took it for a ride then blew baby powder on the bottom end and found it wasn't the primary but a poor seal at the oil pump feed line that just traveled to the lowest point on primary before it dripped confused the heck out of me cause it would travel across the bottom of engine and then drip on a ground wire that went from the frame to the back of primary

[Old Crow]

Tourglide, my main problem with the chain boots is that out of 2 pairs I own, I don't have any that don't have pin holes in 'em.  I run a good quality o ring chain and no oil.  The only oil it get drips out of the tranny main seal into the chain cavity.  Serves the purpose of keeping the trans oil fresh and the chain lubed at the same time.  I get a 50 cent piece sized puddle(not really a puddle, more like a wet spot)after a long run, so it's not like it leaks real bad, and the chain's got 60k miles on it and looks brand new.  Only time I ever have to adjust it is when I swap back tires.
Other than that chain boot she doesn't leak at all now that I ditched the fancy billet pushrod tubes and went back to stockers.

[KatalogKarl]

Ah I remember alot of things now. As pointed out by fxrrider one has to also look at  what is behind the point of leak. I really don't think the motor co took to much into account that when the design especially of the shovel fxr the whole pic of were oil could blow out from. The inner primary seal to the trans or the crappy way the designers had for the shifter through the primary with center pegs. Mine didn't leak sort of until 5k. Then the shifter from the inner and  outer primary blew a oil mist, then the inner primary seal leaked and to top it all off inner seal on trans leak tranny fluid and engine seal leaked. But man i was happy and still am to have the bike. But with fxrrider I see that yours is still unmolested (pics here) in the front end and frame department. Right? I have to get mine out of the Kitchen and see when I can get pics on here. But I agree one has to look over the entire area, as with water, Oil will find any orifice to come out of. And this was a area(primary) that was suppose to have a mild vacuum in a closed system.      

[vern]

I have a 82 FLt and yes the primary leaked untill I found 2 of the lower cover bolts were the demons, put some silicon on the bolts before I put them back in and presto no leak. The enclosed chain is an other story, I installed a newer set of boots spent hours on assembly with sealer and guess what she still leaks. She leaves her mark where ever I go. But I love her.

[Old Crow]

I assume that you didn't find the new boots anytime recently, right?  If so, where?

[1980 Tourglide]

Anyone knows about an open belt peimary kit that will fit my bike?

[fxrrider]

Don't think you are going to find one since you have a bike that was produced for a short time and being a rubber mount 5 speed shovel. You would have to have someone fabricate a plate to hold the engine to the trans and support the clutch, the pulleys won't be a problem. Or you can modify your inner primary to do that but you still have the problem of the starter being supported at the end

[vern]

I found a set of boots on ebay along with the aluminium chain housing. I used the best of the bunch. But I did find another 2 sets of "new" rubbers up the valley I tried to buy them but the guy was a collector and thought he might need a set and a spare set, I could not pry them from his hands. Some guys just want to hoard everything.

[Old Crow]

Yeah, I know a guy like that.  Has an inner primary my wife could use hanging on his wall,"just in case".   
Then again, I save every old part I take off a bike in case I can get a couple of more miles out of it down the road, when the one I replaced it with breaks worse.

The one part that eludes me is the FLHS headlight housing that bolts to the dash on my FLT.  I dream of taking the fairing off the Shovel someday.  They're on e-bay from time to time, but never when I've got money to spare.

[76shuvlinoff]

Then again, I save every old part I take off a bike in case I can get a couple of more miles out of it down the road, when the one I replaced it with breaks worse.

You oughta see the couple Home Depot shelving units I put in the basement....  The only reason the factory mill isn't down there is it's too damn heavy.

[easyricer]

I'm guilty! I have a tin primary hanging on the front porch, 4 seats for my bike, 3 backrests, 2 sets of saddle bags, 2 starters, a starter housing, 2 headlights, a can full of shifter knobs, 3 sets of mufflers, countless "special" screws, I use a Pan rocker cover for an ashtray, and when the 5 gal tanks are done the 3.5 shifter tank is going on the wall right next to the primary.(shifter and all). I have a 1948 Panhead frame sitting at my shop that I just can't bring myself to sell, and every speedo that has ever been on Betsie so that I can keep up with what her actual mileage is.
EASY

[fxrrider]

They make open belt primarys for the later model FXR's and thier transmissions have not changed except for the clutch shaft going from tapered to splined,so if you were to go to a later style trans or change the shaft in your trans to a splined one it should work. you would also have to go with a 89 or later style starter eliminating the need for the starter shaft support. Not sure how badly you want an open primary. If you could find the trans and starter cheap from a parted out later FXR it may be worth it

[Mark222]

Yeah, I know a guy like that.  Has an inner primary my wife could use hanging on his wall,"just in case".   

Hey Wally, you talkin about me, or you jus happen to know another guy with a primary hanging "just in case"?   

Mark

[Old Crow]

I guess your ears were burning, huh?  Hey, I don't blame you...I've got a big pile-o-crap just like that. 
Heck, the floorboards/controls that're on her bike now came out of that pile-o-crap after she rode the bagger for a while and decided she liked floorboards better than forward controls.  Now the forwards are in that pile.

[tomcat64]

Damn, and me and 76 thought *we* liked to tinker. 

Welcome to HTT.  I'll be watching this, I've got a couple of FLT's, and one's a Shovel. 
Where, exactly does your primary leak?  That's about the only bike I have that I can get the primary to seal on.  Of course I'm not counting the the enclosed final chain boots.  No one still alive can stop them from leaking.

try dumping a bottle of STP in final drive chain assembly...

[Old Crow]

What?  The 85-140 outa the trans main seal ain't thick enough?   
Easier to get to the fill plug on the tranny than that plug on the side of the final drive case anyway.  I'm getting old, you know.