New Calif. Exhaust Law SB435 Jan. 1st!

[hd06myway]

If anyone hasn't already heard about this yet, the state of Calif is putting into effect, starting Jan 1st, 2013, a new law, SB435, making it illegal to tamper with O2 sensors, modifying exhaust in any way, and lower the decible levels (82 db's in Cal. now).  The clincher is, there's going to be a "stamp" on the stock exhaust, or an aftermarket exhaust, ONLY if it meets the stringent new requirement, that matches your VIN no.  Thunder Press Aug edition has a good article on this.  Watt this law does is make it very simple cut and dry, black and white for a police officer if they pull you over for speeding say, to look down at your exhaust, the stamp no. on that exhaust must match the number on your VIN.  No match, you get a ticket and big fine$.  According to the article, eliminating the Os sensors on a closed loop EFI system like HDs been using since model yr. 2007, is stupid anyway, because it actually decreases the bikes perfomance, as well as releasing a lot more pollution into the air.  This law, in Calf. means all 2013 models will have to conform to it.   By having the matching stamp on the exhaust, with your VIN, the state doesn't have to invest $ they can't afford on EPA testing machines needed to hook up to motorcycles durring inspections.  If the stock exhaust is gone, and that aftermarket one you have on doesn't have a certified compliant stamp, your a target for fines.  And an aftermarket compliant exhaust is going to be a "much quieter" sounding pipe than we're use to, it's the only way they get "the stamp).   You can bet your sweet bippy's this law wil make it's way acrosss the rest of the country in due time.  Super Trapp is one of the handful of aftermarket exhaust mfg's that makes an EPA COMPLIANT exhaust that meets this new standard for clean air and noise pollution.  The state's trying to kill 2 birds with one stone and appears to have a pretty good shot at doing just that. 

[Admiral Akbar]

While I lost all confidence in the Terminator, there may be some good to come out of this.. It will finally force the after market to build a good high performance quiet exhaust for HDs.  I haven't bought a new HD since 1999.

Max

[runamuck]

Just one more reason not to live on the left (leftist) coast..

[NETacomaFatboy]

Ah fear not Californians...   Someone will be able to stamp your after market exhaust for you...

[Dennis The Menace]

Sounds good to me.  Not a big deal, since its only idle sound, not WOT measurement.  Some guys may not like not being able to gut the cat, but that isnt that big of an issue either, IME.

[hd06myway]

Sounds good to me.  Not a big deal, since its only idle sound, not WOT measurement.  Some guys may not like not being able to gut the cat, but that isnt that big of an issue either, IME.

According to Kip Woodring/Thunder Press, removing the cat only adds a couple-3 HP at very low (1st - 2nd gear) RPM range, it's not the performance robber (the cat), people make it out to be.  I suppose people remove it possibly to lower engine temps... To be honest with you, most cruiser riders I see/hear with the real loud no baffle and drag pipes are the metric cruiser guys... and most of the bikes IMO sound like "Potty mouth".  But they are loud and these goofballs want their unsuspecting neighbors & public to think they're actually riding the real deal... 

[Inda Win]

Sounds like real good news for Fullsac.

[Coff 06]

It doesn't really matter that much to me,just another LAW for the masses.Most all the parts that I've replaced on mine aren't legal in Cali anyway,and I live far enough out in the sticks that I don't get hassled,but at the same time I don't look for trouble when in town.Sure if I wanted to I could set off every car alarm on my way through town,but I'm older now and LIKE flying under the radar.Piss them off with LOUD pipes then next it will be my non dot beanie,then maybe they don't like how my turn signals have been relocated,blah,blah,blah.I don't like having to look over my shoulder to see who's after me now.       Coff 06

[Steve Cole]

I think people need to read this over as it doesn't sound near that bad

http://ohv.parks.ca.gov/pages/1140/files/sb%20435.pdf

http://www.motorcycle.com/news/california-senate-approves-sb-435-89914.html

http://bikersofAmerica.blogspot.com/2011/03/california-sb-435-clearing-up.html

Talks about what SB435 ended up passing as versus what it once was.The Anti tampering provision has been a FEDERAL LAW for near 20 years already.............. anyone having trouble with it so far?

[bericuda]

  how many times do we have to hear this bull.....? i guess government and the media ain't the only users of the fear factory-get a life......

[Ultrashovel]

People love to run California down but eventually, all of the states will have to do things like this.

Personally, I could care less. I run stock mufflers and I have never, ever been stopped on a motorcycle. Cops up here in Northern California tend to leave bikes and their riders alone as long as they aren't doing something stupid in plain view.

[Coyote]

People love to run California down but eventually, all of the states will have to do things like this.

Personally, I could care less. I run stock mufflers and I have never, ever been stopped on a motorcycle. Cops up here in Northern California tend to leave bikes and their riders alone as long as they aren't doing something stupid in plain view.

   Most times I see CHP shooting radar, they lower their gun about the time they could shoot me. This loud pipe thing has been coming for some time and it has and will move across to other states. Try running around Vail or Aspen with your loud pipes.     It's time to quiet things down which is a good thing. I love my quiet Supertrapps. 

[Ultrashovel]

People love to run California down but eventually, all of the states will have to do things like this.

Personally, I could care less. I run stock mufflers and I have never, ever been stopped on a motorcycle. Cops up here in Northern California tend to leave bikes and their riders alone as long as they aren't doing something stupid in plain view.

   Most times I see CHP shooting radar, they lower their gun about the time they could shoot me. This loud pipe thing has been coming for some time and it has and will move across to other states. Try running around Vail or Aspen with your loud pipes.     It's time to quiet things down which is a good thing. I love my quiet Supertrapps. 

I used to have a vintage stainless Supertrapp on my Shovelhead. It was from the period when they were built up here in Northern Cal. I actualy had two of them that I got at a swap meet for $40 without the rings. I put 12 rings and a closed cap on one of them and ran it for several years. It was a terrific muffler that actually helped the performance. It was very quiet too.

I agree, you don't have to be loud to ride. I have always run mufflers. I just want to ride and don't particularly like the noise that a loud set of pipes can put out.

[tdkkart]

I think people need to read this over as it doesn't sound near that bad

http://ohv.parks.ca.gov/pages/1140/files/sb%20435.pdf

http://www.motorcycle.com/news/california-senate-approves-sb-435-89914.html

http://bikersofAmerica.blogspot.com/2011/03/california-sb-435-clearing-up.html

Talks about what SB435 ended up passing as versus what it once was.The Anti tampering provision has been a FEDERAL LAW for near 20 years already.............. anyone having trouble with it so far?

Uh??
According to the above info, this bill passed the senate in 2010, and all the info is that old.

Did Arnold ever actually sign the bill?

Where's the most currrent info??

[Ultrashovel]

I think people need to read this over as it doesn't sound near that bad

http://ohv.parks.ca.gov/pages/1140/files/sb%20435.pdf

http://www.motorcycle.com/news/california-senate-approves-sb-435-89914.html

http://bikersofAmerica.blogspot.com/2011/03/california-sb-435-clearing-up.html

Talks about what SB435 ended up passing as versus what it once was.The Anti tampering provision has been a FEDERAL LAW for near 20 years already.............. anyone having trouble with it so far?

Uh??
According to the above info, this bill passed the senate in 2010, and all the info is that old.

Did Arnold ever actually sign the bill?

Where's the most currrent info??

I looked in the Health and Safety Code (Cal) and Section 44011 shows that motorcycles are still exempt from testing every two years. That will continue until the state develops testing procedures for motorcycles.

ABATE is taking all of the credit for this remaining as it is. With all due respect to their efforts, I can tell you that no one in the legislature has any idea how to test motorcycles and it's a case of letting sleeping dogs lie. Besides, they have other ways to screw us that are a lot easier, like raising taxes....I better stop now before I tell you what I really think about the California government. LOL.

I don't know where the so-called muffler stamping law might be unless someone can quote a code section. I don't know anything about it, other than what I hear on this site. In any case, it would only affect new motorcycles. There has been no notice given either, so that people might comply. No notice, no law as far as I'm concerned.

[bericuda]

 ever heard of a dog chasin it's tail? the day cali is part of the real world we will all be dead.......

[Ultrashovel]

ever heard of a dog chasin it's tail? the day cali is part of the real world we will all be dead.......

Yeah, another vote for the Golden State. I still love it here. It's sure been good to me. Laugh all you want. 

[Jaycee1964]

Too much government.   I'm all for what you personally like to ride.  I run a louder pipe but I know when to let off the throttle for the neighbors     Seems California is always where this stuff starts and they can't leave well enough alone. That's one of the reasons I moved outta there 30 years ago.  I'll stay in New England... Live Free or Die

[76shuvlinoff]

I hate more laws regardless of "the cause". I think most if not all laws like this are born due to fools not being able to regulate themselves. Thanks to ourselves we can expect further encroachment on our lives.

That said I have non stock mufflers on both my bikes, they are not Honda quiet but I know how to ride quiet when it is appropriate.

Where I work there are 4 H-Ds but loudest bike in the lot is a guy on a 1300 VTX and you hear it every day. He comes in hot and he leaves hot. One of these days he'll get pinched for it and I will laugh in his face when he cries "No Fair!"

.02

[hd06myway]

I think people need to read this over as it doesn't sound near that bad

http://ohv.parks.ca.gov/pages/1140/files/sb%20435.pdf

http://www.motorcycle.com/news/california-senate-approves-sb-435-89914.html

http://bikersofAmerica.blogspot.com/2011/03/california-sb-435-clearing-up.html

Talks about what SB435 ended up passing as versus what it once was.The Anti tampering provision has been a FEDERAL LAW for near 20 years already.............. anyone having trouble with it so far?

Uh??
According to the above info, this bill passed the senate in 2010, and all the info is that old.

Did Arnold ever actually sign the bill?

Where's the most currrent info??

I looked in the Health and Safety Code (Cal) and Section 44011 shows that motorcycles are still exempt from testing every two years. That will continue until the state develops testing procedures for motorcycles.

ABATE is taking all of the credit for this remaining as it is. With all due respect to their efforts, I can tell you that no one in the legislature has any idea how to test motorcycles and it's a case of letting sleeping dogs lie. Besides, they have other ways to screw us that are a lot easier, like raising taxes....I better stop now before I tell you what I really think about the California government. LOL.

I don't know where the so-called muffler stamping law might be unless someone can quote a code section. I don't know anything about it, other than what I hear on this site. In any case, it would only affect new motorcycles. There has been no notice given either, so that people might comply. No notice, no law as far as I'm concerned.

The way I understood the article, the muffler stamping matching the VIN is for new models only, from 2013 on.  I'm not too worried this will cause a firestorm of tickets, but cops today are fearing their jobs from cutbacks, and the increase in tickets in general is due to the state generating revenue.  What this law in Calf. (only Cal for now), does is makes it easy for a cop to checl for the stamp and VIN, if they don't match, ticket.  It's any easy way to generate revenue, and states don't have to invest $ they don't have into EPA testing machines.

[Ultrashovel]

The way I understood the article, the muffler stamping matching the VIN is for new models only, from 2013 on.  I'm not too worried this will cause a firestorm of tickets, but cops today are fearing their jobs from cutbacks, and the increase in tickets in general is due to the state generating revenue.  What this law in Calf. (only Cal for now), does is makes it easy for a cop to checl for the stamp and VIN, if they don't match, ticket.  It's any easy way to generate revenue, and states don't have to invest $ they don't have into EPA testing machines.

In theory, of couirse, you could get an additional ticket if the cop stops you for something like speeding or an illegal lane change. In practice, they have bigger fish to fry. They love to stop cars, trucks, busses and vans. I can't even remember the last time I saw a cop stop a motorcyclist. It's prertty rare, at least in Northern California. Like Judy Tenuta used to say, "It could happen" but it doesn't happen all that often and, I might add, it's probably usually a crotch rocket owner who's trying out his new four-banger on the freeway to see how long he can hold a wheelie.

Also, I might point out that inspecting the muffler stamp is no easy task for a cop in full uniform with belt, gun, flashlight and so on. It would also require them to get down on their hands and knees and try to look for the stamping. Even if it's there on a stock muffler, it's rather small and could also be occluded by dirt by being underneath a saddlebag. Additionally, do you think that a cop is going to put himself in that position when stopping an angry, unruly biker? LOL.

I mean, it's a nice solution for a fat-a**ed legislator, but in actual practice, it's just another ho-hum B.S. law on the books that won't get much action.

[tdkkart]

The way I understood the article, the muffler stamping matching the VIN is for new models only, from 2013 on.  I'm not too worried this will cause a firestorm of tickets, but cops today are fearing their jobs from cutbacks, and the increase in tickets in general is due to the state generating revenue.  What this law in Calf. (only Cal for now), does is makes it easy for a cop to checl for the stamp and VIN, if they don't match, ticket.  It's any easy way to generate revenue, and states don't have to invest $ they don't have into EPA testing machines.

In theory, of couirse, you could get an additional ticket if the cop stops you for something like speeding or an illegal lane change. In practice, they have bigger fish to fry. They love to stop cars, trucks, busses and vans. I can't even remember the last time I saw a cop stop a motorcyclist. It's prertty rare, at least in Northern California. Like Judy Tenuta used to say, "It could happen" but it doesn't happen all that often and, I might add, it's probably usually a crotch rocket owner who's trying out his new four-banger on the freeway to see how long he can hold a wheelie.

Also, I might point out that inspecting the muffler stamp is no easy task for a cop in full uniform with belt, gun, flashlight and so on. It would also require them to get down on their hands and knees and try to look for the stamping. Even if it's there on a stock muffler, it's rather small and could also be occluded by dirt by being underneath a saddlebag. Additionally, do you think that a cop is going to put himself in that position when stopping an angry, unruly biker? LOL.

I mean, it's a nice solution for a fat-a**ed legislator, but in actual practice, it's just another ho-hum B.S. law on the books that won't get much action.

But did Arnie ever actually pass the law??
Is it really going into effect January 1st??
I've not heard another word about it except from these old articles.

[hd06myway]

The way I understood the article, the muffler stamping matching the VIN is for new models only, from 2013 on.  I'm not too worried this will cause a firestorm of tickets, but cops today are fearing their jobs from cutbacks, and the increase in tickets in general is due to the state generating revenue.  What this law in Calf. (only Cal for now), does is makes it easy for a cop to checl for the stamp and VIN, if they don't match, ticket.  It's any easy way to generate revenue, and states don't have to invest $ they don't have into EPA testing machines.

In theory, of couirse, you could get an additional ticket if the cop stops you for something like speeding or an illegal lane change. In practice, they have bigger fish to fry. They love to stop cars, trucks, busses and vans. I can't even remember the last time I saw a cop stop a motorcyclist. It's prertty rare, at least in Northern California. Like Judy Tenuta used to say, "It could happen" but it doesn't happen all that often and, I might add, it's probably usually a crotch rocket owner who's trying out his new four-banger on the freeway to see how long he can hold a wheelie.

Also, I might point out that inspecting the muffler stamp is no easy task for a cop in full uniform with belt, gun, flashlight and so on. It would also require them to get down on their hands and knees and try to look for the stamping. Even if it's there on a stock muffler, it's rather small and could also be occluded by dirt by being underneath a saddlebag. Additionally, do you think that a cop is going to put himself in that position when stopping an angry, unruly biker? LOL.

I mean, it's a nice solution for a fat-a**ed legislator, but in actual practice, it's just another ho-hum B.S. law on the books that won't get much action.

Your right about that stamp, at least the article illuded to it not being that easy to see on th emuffler, yea, I don't see cops bending over trying to find it either.. but it's pretty funny to envision it! 

[Ohio HD]

The way I understood the article, the muffler stamping matching the VIN is for new models only, from 2013 on.  I'm not too worried this will cause a firestorm of tickets, but cops today are fearing their jobs from cutbacks, and the increase in tickets in general is due to the state generating revenue.  What this law in Calf. (only Cal for now), does is makes it easy for a cop to checl for the stamp and VIN, if they don't match, ticket.  It's any easy way to generate revenue, and states don't have to invest $ they don't have into EPA testing machines.

In theory, of couirse, you could get an additional ticket if the cop stops you for something like speeding or an illegal lane change. In practice, they have bigger fish to fry. They love to stop cars, trucks, busses and vans. I can't even remember the last time I saw a cop stop a motorcyclist. It's prertty rare, at least in Northern California. Like Judy Tenuta used to say, "It could happen" but it doesn't happen all that often and, I might add, it's probably usually a crotch rocket owner who's trying out his new four-banger on the freeway to see how long he can hold a wheelie.

Also, I might point out that inspecting the muffler stamp is no easy task for a cop in full uniform with belt, gun, flashlight and so on. It would also require them to get down on their hands and knees and try to look for the stamping. Even if it's there on a stock muffler, it's rather small and could also be occluded by dirt by being underneath a saddlebag. Additionally, do you think that a cop is going to put himself in that position when stopping an angry, unruly biker? LOL.

I mean, it's a nice solution for a fat-a**ed legislator, but in actual practice, it's just another ho-hum B.S. law on the books that won't get much action.

Your right about that stamp, at least the article illuded to it not being that easy to see on th emuffler, yea, I don't see cops bending over trying to find it either.. but it's pretty funny to envision it! 

We have female cops in Cincinnati!       

[hd06myway]

The way I understood the article, the muffler stamping matching the VIN is for new models only, from 2013 on.  I'm not too worried this will cause a firestorm of tickets, but cops today are fearing their jobs from cutbacks, and the increase in tickets in general is due to the state generating revenue.  What this law in Calf. (only Cal for now), does is makes it easy for a cop to checl for the stamp and VIN, if they don't match, ticket.  It's any easy way to generate revenue, and states don't have to invest $ they don't have into EPA testing machines.

In theory, of couirse, you could get an additional ticket if the cop stops you for something like speeding or an illegal lane change. In practice, they have bigger fish to fry. They love to stop cars, trucks, busses and vans. I can't even remember the last time I saw a cop stop a motorcyclist. It's prertty rare, at least in Northern California. Like Judy Tenuta used to say, "It could happen" but it doesn't happen all that often and, I might add, it's probably usually a crotch rocket owner who's trying out his new four-banger on the freeway to see how long he can hold a wheelie.

Also, I might point out that inspecting the muffler stamp is no easy task for a cop in full uniform with belt, gun, flashlight and so on. It would also require them to get down on their hands and knees and try to look for the stamping. Even if it's there on a stock muffler, it's rather small and could also be occluded by dirt by being underneath a saddlebag. Additionally, do you think that a cop is going to put himself in that position when stopping an angry, unruly biker? LOL.

I mean, it's a nice solution for a fat-a**ed legislator, but in actual practice, it's just another ho-hum B.S. law on the books that won't get much action.

But did Arnie ever actually pass the law??
Is it really going into effect January 1st??
I've not heard another word about it except from these old articles.

Yes it is going into affect Jan 1st, don't know who signed it, Arnold or Jerry... I would guess Arnold since it takes a couple yrs to go in affect I think.  We'll see how it goes in Cali, I'm sure if riders are getting tickets for it we'll here about it.  The article didn't say cpos would be pulling people over for an inspection, most likely speeding, but that was another thing they could get you on.  I know I'm gettin old when the cops look like kids to me... it's harder for me to say "yes sir" than it use to be! 

[Coyote]

But did Arnie ever actually pass the law??
Is it really going into effect January 1st??
I've not heard another word about it except from these old articles.

Yes, he signed it.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/greenspace/2010/09/motorcycle-noise-bill.html

http://www.noisefree.org/cityord/california-motorcycle-law.php

[Ultrashovel]

As I said, there's been no notice so I sort of doubt that it's going into effect. It's not in the Health and Safety area of the law mentioned above in any case. Usually they will add a section with a date when it will go into effect.

Unless your bike is loud, I doubt that it will be something that could get you stopped since the officer can't observe it when he sees you. He would have to stop and make in inspection and that's not going to happen without some other reason, like loud pipes of poor driving.

The main violations for which an officer will stop a vehicle would be the use of a cell phone or failure to wear a seat belt. In those cases, the officer has the right to stop you just like a moving violation.

[Ultrashovel]

But did Arnie ever actually pass the law??
Is it really going into effect January 1st??
I've not heard another word about it except from these old articles.

Yes, he signed it.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/greenspace/2010/09/motorcycle-noise-bill.html

http://www.noisefree.org/cityord/california-motorcycle-law.php

Yep, I guess he did. Note, however, that they would still need to hear a loud bike before they would examine the mufflers. Then you could get an additional $$ fine.

Guess I'll leave my stock mufflers on. 

[Jim Bronson]

When a baffle broke in my SE mufflers, I replaced them with aftermarket quiet baffles. Now I can start the bike in the garage without wearing earplugs, and I don't set off car alarms anymore, and my neighbors are happier. I don't need to call attention to myself anymore, and I've never noticed any performance difference. Maybe a racer would, but I don't.

[bleuknight]

Well, I'm glad I don't live in Calif!! Bunch of Liberals running the state down!!! I lived in PA, was involved with ABATE (Alliance of Bikers Aimed Toward Education), key word, education!! bikers have a lot of control of biker laws, since we tend to break them. PA has people fighting to quiet bikes down, failed as this point, but the fight continues. Mayor of Lancaster, PA, attended an ABATE meeting, he said you can have straight pipes for all he cares, as long as you "putt" throught his city, if you drag from light to light, he instructed his officers to ticket you!! Education!! Think about what your doing. You don't have to be the loudest to be the badest, just have to be smart!!

Why is Calif leading the country in sensless laws? High gas prices? High insurance costs? because the people vote in the morons running the state! I agree, the EPA thinks they are doing a great job cutting back emissions, etc, the only thing they are  doing is helping vehicles lose MPG, and costing Mfg to raise the cost of their product, and I am sure some, if not most, get government funding or kick backs to agree and made the product!

If the motorcycling world stays off the governments radar, then they may look the other way? just saying.

[Ultrashovel]

Well, I'm glad I don't live in Calif!! Bunch of Liberals running the state down!!! I lived in PA, was involved with ABATE (Alliance of Bikers Aimed Toward Education), key word, education!! bikers have a lot of control of biker laws, since we tend to break them. PA has people fighting to quiet bikes down, failed as this point, but the fight continues. Mayor of Lancaster, PA, attended an ABATE meeting, he said you can have straight pipes for all he cares, as long as you "putt" throught his city, if you drag from light to light, he instructed his officers to ticket you!! Education!! Think about what your doing. You don't have to be the loudest to be the badest, just have to be smart!!

Why is Calif leading the country in sensless laws? High gas prices? High insurance costs? because the people vote in the morons running the state! I agree, the EPA thinks they are doing a great job cutting back emissions, etc, the only thing they are  doing is helping vehicles lose MPG, and costing Mfg to raise the cost of their product, and I am sure some, if not most, get government funding or kick backs to agree and made the product!

If the motorcycling world stays off the governments radar, then they may look the other way? just saying.

You should talk. I don't know whether Arizona still does it, but at one time, they were the only state in the Union to have motorcycle exhaust testing. At least over here, the morons know that they won't ever be able to get a handle on bike testing so they just soak us on license fees and what not.

If you don't like California, stay on your side of the Colorado and we'll get by. The more people that move out and stay out, the more room for the illegals.

[q1svt]

Not sure what the last few postings had to do with a California law or the OP


Look's like a few of you might need to reread the HTT Site of Conduct

http://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,350.0.html

[Dennis The Menace]

Ladies and gents, stay on topic and dont make this a chest pumping session ( cuz you will lose!).  Go ride and get it out of your system.

The fact is, the laws arent anything to worry about, and all 50 states have EPA noise laws that are (mostly) not enforced.  So, dont go banging on Cali thinking your crap dont stink, cuz it does. And, if you dont like it, stay out of Cali....nuff said.  In the end, its the riders that make the noise that are ruining it for everyone....they are the ones you need to call out and have a talk with!

Now, go ride and chill dude and dont harsh my mellow (an original Cali phrase, of course).  lol

[Ultrashovel]

Not sure what the last few postings had to do with a California law or the OP


Look's like a few of you might need to reread the HTT Site of Conduct

http://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,350.0.html

Funny you should mention that.

Go back and read the entire thread. Arizona had at one time motorcycle exhaust quality testing. The thread has had several members point out the liberal, environmental, left wing issues often started in California. You are welcome to join the fray. People make fun of where I live all of the time. So you want me to simply not respond?

For the record, California is a great place to live. So is Arizone, Idaho, and wherever you live. Keep smiling.

By the way, Welcoome to HTT. 


"Members are expected to conduct themselves in a civilized manner. That means showing courtesy and respect to ALL other members, moderators, administrators and staff."

[q1svt]

State Senator Fran Pavley, of Agoura Hills represents an area where 1,000's of bike riders come from 100's of miles away to blast through the canyons... and with F@@@ing insanely loud pipes.

Few liked her solution to the problem (even people like the Governor and a late night show host who personally likes to ride to the Rock Store) got the bill reworded to simply go back to the 1983 EPA noise label match-up language that has been in effect at the Federal level for 27 years.
 
What does it mean... I run the old SE 65115-98 (race only) and in their day was consider a good performance muffler (I did choose to run a 2-1-2 to help in noise reduction).  HD is reselling that very same muffler from Kerker, same baffles new EPA stamp under 65115-10 (street legal).  Go figure.

You are welcome to join the fray. People make fun of where I live all of the time. So you want me to simply not respond?

Yea...  I do, cause I remember the 21" of snow on the ground the day I left... but mostly the great riding 12 months out of the year in wonderful California weather.


If I am not riding then it's the t-shirts, shorts and a good pair of Flojos

P.S. Thanks, I'm glad to be aboard

[176]

We still do have to emissions test our bikes every year here in Arizona once the bike is over
Five yrs. old. They do an idle test only and don't care about noise or stamped mufflers.
My 02 Heritage with head work, Andrews 37g cams and dyno tuned always passes...barely, but passes almost forgot, usually fails at idle but then they let you rev up to 2k for a while and that's where it passes. Have a few friends have to do the same to pass with performance cams.
176

[Ultrashovel]

We still do have to emissions test our bikes every year here in Arizona once the bike is over
Five yrs. old. They do an idle test only and don't care about noise or stamped mufflers.
My 02 Heritage with head work, Andrews 37g cams and dyno tuned always passes...barely, but passes almost forgot, usually fails at idle but then they let you rev up to 2k for a while and that's where it passes. Have a few friends have to do the same to pass with performance cams.
176

It sounds like Arizona wanted to do something on motorcycle tests but weren't sure what. The only time that emissions tests are worthwhile is when the engine is under load. That's why California went to dynamometer style tests in California. They do the test with the vehicle in gear on the rollers and hold it at at specific rpm for a specified period of time.

I think that they actuallly looked into it here in California and realized that it would be impossible to come up with hot test standards for motorcycles that would be meaningful and which would permit most of them to pass. Remember, if your car fails to pass a smog test you won't be able to register it. No completed registration = no $$$ for the state. The last thing they need to do now is to prevent motorcycles from being registered with a huge budget deficit. Although there are fewer bikes relative to cars, every little bit counts when you are having a recession.

There really are no individual standards for bikes that are 10 or more years old anyway. Perhaps there was a fleet standard but no specifics for the details necessary to make testing worthwhile.

I'm not unhappy if they want to mark the mufflers and check the stamps as part of a stop under the new law. They're going to need some Mr. Clean spray, some rags and some knee pads if they want to do it on the road, however.

[bleuknight]

Not sure what the last few postings had to do with a California law or the OP


Look's like a few of you might need to reread the HTT Site of Conduct

http://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,350.0.html

Funny you should mention that.

Go back and read the entire thread. Arizona had at one time motorcycle exhaust quality testing. The thread has had several members point out the liberal, environmental, left wing issues often started in California. You are welcome to join the fray. People make fun of where I live all of the time. So you want me to simply not respond?

For the record, California is a great place to live. So is Arizone, Idaho, and wherever you live. Keep smiling.

By the way, Welcoome to HTT. 


"Members are expected to conduct themselves in a civilized manner. That means showing courtesy and respect to ALL other members, moderators, administrators and staff."

Your right. I apologize about the remarks! We all live in America!! Ride on, Ride a lot!!!  Be safe out there to ride another day!!

[koko3052]

The way I understood the article, the muffler stamping matching the VIN is for new models only, from 2013 on.  I'm not too worried this will cause a firestorm of tickets, but cops today are fearing their jobs from cutbacks, and the increase in tickets in general is due to the state generating revenue.  What this law in Calf. (only Cal for now), does is makes it easy for a cop to checl for the stamp and VIN, if they don't match, ticket.  It's any easy way to generate revenue, and states don't have to invest $ they don't have into EPA testing machines.

In theory, of couirse, you could get an additional ticket if the cop stops you for something like speeding or an illegal lane change. In practice, they have bigger fish to fry. They love to stop cars, trucks, busses and vans. I can't even remember the last time I saw a cop stop a motorcyclist. It's prertty rare, at least in Northern California. Like Judy Tenuta used to say, "It could happen" but it doesn't happen all that often and, I might add, it's probably usually a crotch rocket owner who's trying out his new four-banger on the freeway to see how long he can hold a wheelie.

Also, I might point out that inspecting the muffler stamp is no easy task for a cop in full uniform with belt, gun, flashlight and so on. It would also require them to get down on their hands and knees and try to look for the stamping. Even if it's there on a stock muffler, it's rather small and could also be occluded by dirt by being underneath a saddlebag. Additionally, do you think that a cop is going to put himself in that position when stopping an angry, unruly biker? LOL.

I mean, it's a nice solution for a fat-a**ed legislator, but in actual practice, it's just another ho-hum B.S. law on the books that won't get much action.

Your right about that stamp, at least the article illuded to it not being that easy to see on th emuffler, yea, I don't see cops bending over trying to find it either.. but it's pretty funny to envision it! 

We have female cops in Cincinnati!       
[/quote
         

[chopper]

sorry boss....

I'll be good now....            for a while................             maybe....

[Steve Cole]

Can someone point out to me where in the law it says they will have to have the VIN stamped in the muffler? I might have missed it but I sure did not see it. This would mean the OEM manufactures would have to stamp each exhaust prior to Chrome plate and not mix them up which I know they would fight tooth and nail. An application stamp I can see but not the entire VIN in each muffler.

[q1svt]

Can someone point out to me where in the law it says they will have to have the VIN stamped in the muffler?

You are correct there is no VIN matching in the SB435 law

It works with the 1983 EPA laws on noise level <= 80 dB and tampering wording, by setting specific fines for first, second, third violations etc.  The ticket is a fix-it so the Cop does not have to get on their knees to ensure they are correct... (that's why there are CHP inspection stations) they can just issue the ticket.  The owner will have to prove the mufflers are valid or fix the problem as with all California fix-it tickets.  With the number of Californians on Craig's looking for correct mufflers/Cats, the CHP's have been writing tickets for a couple of years on MC with model years less than 2013 and before the effective date of SB435.

It is also putting business on notice that they need to ensure mufflers (EPA stickers are valid for the specific application) they install on customers motorcycles meet the laws (motors too)... a couple local California shops have received visits from the EPA...

one of several old HTT posts
http://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,43941.msg456839.html#msg456839

[hd06myway]

The Thunder Press article wasn't specific about what actually matched on the exhaust and the VIN, but they do match, my guess is the VIN number also has the same EPA stamp, REMEMBER, this affects only 2013 models on up, in CA only.  It's another law that won't be widely enforced BUT, it does make it easier for an officer to check, that is if the muffler stamp is not hidden too well, to check for matching stamps(?) on the exhaust & frame VIN.  Personally, I'd like to see cops taiketing for loud drag pipes, and baffleless exhaust, I find them annoying, and they sound like crap.  And this comes from a rider who got his first ticket for loud pipes when I was 23 yrs old 32 yrs ago.  I remember putting baffles in my drags and thinking how much better they sounded, but they were still loud!  I can understand a 20 something running loud pipes, but come on, 30-40-50 yr olds running around making noise like it's something cool, give me a break, grow the F up.  I good mellow growl coming form a Harley is the best sound there is.  Anything else is noise.  While they're at it, start writing tickets for loud car sterios too.  Not only is that dangerous (can't hear sirens, or bikes, etc..) but it' an infringment on other people's space.

[Ultrashovel]

If the motorcycle's VIN number is stamped into the muffler, that would make it very difficult for anyone to ever buy a replacement OEM muffler for an existing motorcycle. It would be akin to buying a replacement crankcase or a frame. You would have to have an old muffler to send in to the company and get a new one manufactured with the same VIN number. That's not going to float with the consumer.

If that's actually what they intend to do, it doesn't sound workable. It's just another government regulation to make the greenies feel good. It won't change much. People will still buy aftermarket pipes or punch out their baffles. Ho hum. Nothing really new.

[hd06myway]

If the motorcycle's VIN number is stamped into the muffler, that would make it very difficult for anyone to ever buy a replacement OEM muffler for an existing motorcycle. It would be akin to buying a replacement crankcase or a frame. You would have to have an old muffler to send in to the company and get a new one manufactured with the same VIN number. That's not going to float with the consumer.

If that's actually what they intend to do, it doesn't sound workable. It's just another government regulation to make the greenies feel good. It won't change much. People will still buy aftermarket pipes or punch out their baffles. Ho hum. Nothing really new.

The article doesn't say the VIN will be stamped on the muffler, it just says the muffler stamp and the VIN match, so my guess is there's an EPA stamp right in the frame next to the VIN that match the stamp on the muffler..  I don't think it's going to be a big deal, but in today's financial environment, and particularly CA's, it could be a hassle, but I'm sure you'll let us know how things go in CA... later next year once it's been in affect.

[Steve Cole]

Look at any of the OEM mufflers for the last several years and they are already stamped for noise regulations required around the country. This is nothing new! So from what I see CA is going to now require it just like everyone else does and gives the police away to write a ticket if your mufflers are not stamped. Looks to me like it's not big deal except to the aftermarket if they do not have any mufflers that will pass the testing needed to get the stamp of approval.

[FLTRI]

...It will finally force the after market to build a good high performance quiet exhaust for HDs...
Max

:up:YES! FINALLY!! I've been a proponent for "Quiet Power" for over 10 years.
I have seen this coming and frankly wonder why it's taken so long.

I have said it's only about the excessive noise NOT emissions but emissions allow the state to get rid of the noise issue.

Actually there has been a law on the books since the 70's (not sure if it is state or federal) that basically states it's illegal to tamper with the stock exhaust system...period.

Bob
PS - The VIN, without the last six (serial no.), describes the bike's stock configuration. No need for the serial number.

[Ultrashovel]

Look at any of the OEM mufflers for the last several years and they are already stamped for noise regulations required around the country. This is nothing new! So from what I see CA is going to now require it just like everyone else does and gives the police away to write a ticket if your mufflers are not stamped. Looks to me like it's not big deal except to the aftermarket if they do not have any mufflers that will pass the testing needed to get the stamp of approval.

Yes, it's true that OEM mufflers already have stamping on them with part number, engine size and the warning not to tamper with them. If they leave the VIN number out of it, there wont be much change. I've never personally heard of a police officer spending much time looking at the stamps. I guess they have written tickets for excess noise, however.

In any case, it's just more and more regulation. I'll be the first to admit that Caliifrnia's increasing regulation in all things is driving businesses and potential employers away. The problem is getting to be countrywide, too. Once the regulators come after us, no one will be safe.

[pwmorris]

I've been riding loud, fast HD's in SoCal for alot of years and never been hassled by the law. I ride smart, respect quiet neighborhoods or avoid them altogether, and when I do hammer it, I do it in wide open areas, industrial areas, freeways, and areas I know to be busy with cars and other noises. When I come to a light I don't blip the throttle to show everyone how loud my bike is or gun it as I pass cafe's or areas where people are chillin'. I don't try and set off car alarms all over town (but my bike is crazy loud when I twist it so it would be EZ to do), and when I start my bike at my house, or leaving a restaurant I start it and roll out nice and slow.
When I started riding here in the late 80's you could do just about anything you wanted on a loud HD-hell I was parked on a sidewalk leaving a spot years ago and a couple cops pulled up next to me in their patrol car and said "lets hear some thunder!" So I gunned it and jumped the curb and off I went. When I used to street race my FXR against some HD's and mostly sportbikes, the law knew where we were but never came down on us (before the Fast and Furious BS).
That stuff don't fly any more in Cali...
IMO, Sb435 is a tool for law enforcement to use (or not) depending on the situation and the reason someone was pulled over in the first place.

[Tsani]

You know, I don't mind quiet. I don't buy the loud saves lives bit in it's entirety. But I do like a good rumble out of my exhaust and I like that if need be I can get it roar. I can keep it quiet but I also know you can't please everyone. Heck you fart and there will always be someone to complain that it is too noisy and pollutes their air.  As for car alarms, please, it's not the noise, it's the frequency and vibrations caused. I have seen city buses setting off more car alarms than me and explain why my buddy's bike sets off some and I don't? Vice a vesra too. I have seen that time and again on the same streets withe same cars. So I wouldn't mind a stock looking slip on tapered shotgun mufflers that are quiet but perform well. I wouldn't mind, but the EPA and the wannabe's would.

Now if we get that, what is next on the cry baby list that the powers to be can use to extort money from us?

[FLTRI]

Paul,
That is certainly my experiences in CA. And you are prolly correct in that the coppers will be using their discretion to ticket for pipes...basically renewing the "do not tamper" law from the 70's.

Since I work in the East Bay Area there is a plethora of throttle jockeys that rap the throttle several times EVERY time they take off yet crank up their $10k sound system so they don't have to hear the incredible piercing crack of their open exhaust systems, especially with high compression builds.

I doubt it's about those who respect the privacy of others...it's all about the gaggle of excessively loud bikes making as much noise as possible...virtually all the time they are on the move.

As always, JMHO,
Bob