Power Vision questions

[strokerjlk]

Where do you download the latest software ?

[Jamie Long]

Where do you download the latest software ?

The newest production versions of software, firmware, and user guides are available at www.dynojetpowervision.com under downloads. If anyone would like the latest Beta versions you can email me at jamie@fuelmotousa.com

[Ken R]

I have the new firmware (beta).  It makes tuning on every ride quick and easy with no computer.  (if desired). 

Ken,
How long did it take to do your first tune with PV vs after a few tunes?
Bob

Not there yet, Bob.  I'm in the study mode right now; and trying to duplicate my TTS cells in PV to see if I can do it. 

On that front, I'm finding that the canned PV ignition timing map that Jamie pre-loaded into my PV for me is very close to the ignition tables that Ed and I produced on the dyno.  In some areas, the advance was quite aggressive, compared to what I'm running now.  But in developing my ignition tables, we advanced until the knock sensor complained . . . and then backed off until it was happy.

Next week, I'll probably hook the PV up to the bike and try a tuning run or two.  I have to remove the TTS tune and go back to stock first, since the ECM is locked out with my current tune.  But by then, I'll have two initial flashes to try.  The first will be the Fuel Moto flash that one gets when the unit is bought from them.  The other will include my current table as I am hand entering from my current tune tables. 

OH, I watched my friend Dan tune his.  He simply accumulated data while on the way to bike practice; and when there, he pushed a couple of buttons to load the newly developed tune.  It took only 20 seconds or so.  Later, he told me that he accumulated more data on the way home and pushed the buttons again to refine the tune a little more.   With the PV, one can collect data at any time while riding normally; the system will create a new map with any changes it deems necessary.  Push a couple of buttons, it loads the new data, turn the ignition off and back on 10 seconds later; and VOILA', your running the new tune.   No wires, no computer in the tourpac or your backpack, and no rigging up a little monitor to see what's going on. 

[nhrider]

Can you trade in a TTS on a PV ?

I'd be all over this.
Pending just a few more valued opinions I'm very close to switching.
The TTS is great, but it 's looking like the PV has the advantage in ease of use and convenience now.   

Well I can provide another unbiased opinion.   I picked up a PV three weeks ago, after waiting about 3 month for the Mastertune to be available, I went with what I believed to be the next best option.  I have absolutely no regrets.   It did everything I wanted/needed and more.

Being able to log data without having to bring along a PC is huge, and yes you can monitor map hits easily on the PV display.   The on board display is also a big plus.   I didn't think I wanted to mount it on the bars originally, but I like it so much it may become a permenant feature.   You can monitor anything available from the ECU (including cylinder head temp and intake air temp) as well as PV features.   It can monitor up to six parameters/statuses simultaneously, and is infinitely configurable.

Logging data is simple and the monitor screen shows how well you've filled the map.   I'm not using the beta software that does the on-board tunes, but tunes are easily generated using Log Tunner and WinPV.

Mine came from Fuel moto with a very good base map for the Stage 1 mods I had made.   With every tuning session things just got better.   I ended up creating 3 tunes from about 8 or 9 log files ( you can use multiple log files to create a tune) and the bike just ran great...better with each revised tune.   I wanted to get to know the hardware and software before I did the Stage 2 mods.

Installed an Andrews 48H cam, new bearings and Fuel Moto 2-1-2 head pipe to get rid of the cat.   Once again Fuel moto provided a very good base tune for this configuration.   I've run one new tune with only minor changes.    I have 4 log sessions to run a second tune when I finish up here.   The bike runs great, and the tuning is easy.   The 48H cam really woke up the 96" engine, with almost unlimited torque and good power (its a 2010 RKC).

I can't make comparisons to the Mastertune as I haven't used it, but I really like the PV.   I thought I might be settling for second best originally, I don't think that way now.

It would be really hard to beat the on board logging and display features.   The support from Fuel Moto has also been first class.   If you are thinking of doing it I wouldn't hesitate....and definitely consider Fuel Moto as a supplier.

[BVHOG]

Had a chance to tune a bike this week with the PV, I did not have the latest downloads but it was a basic build and I had more than needed. The tuning software is very easy to understand but like anything new it added some time to the tune. The only complaint I have is that the edits made to the new map and saved first have to be loaded to the touchscreen and then loaded to the bike. I really like the 6 map library that can be stored in the touch screen.

[wurk_truk]

So, it's obvious that a lot of folks like Ken R has NOT road tuned a TTS WITH A MONITOR, so no real comparison, as of yet.  I will await Mikes report, because, to me, road tuning, being able to SEE each and every cell clearly and easily while riding is key.

How about some others that have used BOTH.  Just us that have used TTS, with a monitor, and those that have used PV isn't really sufficient, because you REALLY don't know the differences until both have been tried by same folks.

My ears are still open.  All you PV guys have NOT used a TTS on the road with a 7" monitor, and then there is folks like me that have, as of yet, used the monitor from the PV.  Not having to carry a laptop, to me, is nothing.  But to others?  I feel that ability AND some kind of monitor will surely beat out the deal of using TTS without a laptop.  Hands down.  TTS without a laptop will take away the ONE thing I love about TTS to start with.  Filling all the data points easily.

It is really starting to look like, to me, that the PV has come along very nicely, and is why I ask and wish to learn.  Yes, with TTS or TTS2, I will STILL use a laptop, to be able to have my monitor.  I also have a Twin Scan for those areas that cannot be reached by the NB O2 sensors.  But, the PV with the WB option is starting to look like a nice deal all around.

I feel there are a whole lotta folks that want some simplicity in 'tuning' their bikes.  I'm wondering if the two devices will split apart, depending on usages and who is doing the tunes?  Folks like Mike and myself, like access to all kinds of crap and play with and use ALL the tables.  It HAS dawned upon me that there are tons of folks that do NOT wish for that...  the KISS method comes to mind.  So, to those that know I AM Mr. Koolaide... fine, but I jumped on the TTS as the best method to go.  Maybe this will become an easier method?  Time will tell, and.............  I'm all eyes too.   Post up lotsa screen shots for me to see.  Those that wish to see TTS screen shots?  There are PLENTY of those in the Sticky sections.

I will tell all of you what............  the first tuner that allows me at decel tables AND timing maps for each gear would get MY vote, but what a time consuming process that would be, huh?  I already know, as does Jamie, that these tables exist in the ECM, it is that no one has allowed us access.

Regardless of who I am, or who some of you guys THINK I am, I absolutely love the idea of competition in this field.  You guys with dynos have cake to tune with and us strictly DIYers have what?  Pie?  HAHA!  (I like to think that folks like BVBob can still remember street tuning and all the BS that goes with it).

[HV]

I'm waiting as well for the more "advanced" users and tuners to try Both the PV and the new TTS 2 ... I'm going to be tuning my new RG with a PV ( bike wont be here till OCT ) so it may be a wile before I can compare it to the SESPT that I have been using for the past few years... as for TTS 1   2  3 what ever I don't use them so no comment ... the PV will be all new to me so some time to learn will be needed.. but from what I see the Tech Support for them is 100% ... compared to the HD  SESPT support which is non existent ...due to HD not wanting any one to mess with their ECMs in any case

[hrdtail78]

Had a chance to tune a bike this week with the PV, I did not have the latest downloads but it was a basic build and I had more than needed. The tuning software is very easy to understand but like anything new it added some time to the tune. The only complaint I have is that the edits made to the new map and saved first have to be loaded to the touchscreen and then loaded to the bike. I really like the 6 map library that can be stored in the touch screen.

Did you try the cruise over 81?  If you still have it on the dyno. Can you? 

[oldguy]

Truk
I have used and own the MT, DTT with wego 3, and now I use the PV with auto tune. I used to ride around with a full size laptop hanging from my neck, that I made out of leather, and I could see very plainly the cells I was populating. I still prefer the pv, as you can set it to show a histogram that shows the number of hits in each cell while you ride. After you are done several sessions of fine tuning (and you are also tuning your timing simultaneously) you are able to look at you lambda values on the screen as you ride, and you can watch exactly what part of any cell is going rich or lean, as it approaches the next cell above, below or beside the cell you are in. If you really want to smooth your map you can make small adjustments to the adjacent cells to homogenize the values within the cell you are working in ( I know this is getting pretty picky).
My map that I have developed with the pv is within 1-2% everywhere- some areas continually come up as needing "0" change. You can do this stuff with other tuning equipment, but not as easily. For problem areas, I get the load on, thumb data logging on for 10 sec, then thumb it off again before letting off the load, so I can simulate steps on a dyno.
My vote is for the pv.
HTH

[FLTRI]

Oldguy,
My question is: How do you see the little itty bitty numbers on a screen that small?
My setup is a 10.5" screen and that was hard enough to see.

The time it takes to move your eyes from the road ahead, focus where you are on the screen, watch it change, then get back to the road, you may have traveled a considerable distance...like 1000+ ft?

Pretty scarey experience when you look up at a truck coming the other a way in the lane you drifted into.

Don't ask me how I know.
Bob

[wurk_truk]

Hey Old Guy...  Thanks!!!   This IS the feedback I am looking for.  Any TTS users do a PV tune, yet?

I wonder if one can blow up the PV screen to be able to work only parts of the tune at a time?

HV... with BOTH TTS AND PV in beta testing for whole new models...  I think the SEPST is possibly being left behind?  So far...  I'm liking everything I hear about the PV.  I have a TTS, am used to the TTS, etc.  My own bike... most likely stay TTS.   But the PV may be a thing I could talk a bud into doing, and that would let me play with one.  I'm already checking the TTS Updater for the TTS2 software, as it is.

HAHAHA!!!!!

I would like to see if Dynojet sells keys to a PV, so we could have one dongle and tune multiple bikes.  That would be way cool for sure!!!!!

[Coyote]

Oldguy,
My question is: How do you see the little itty bitty numbers on a screen that small?
My setup is a 10.5" screen and that was hard enough to see.

The time it takes to move your eyes from the road ahead, focus where you are on the screen, watch it change, then get back to the road, you may have traveled a considerable distance...like 1000+ ft?

Pretty scarey experience when you look up at a truck coming the other a way in the lane you drifted into.

Don't ask me how I know.
Bob

Bob, I used my Droid cell phone and had no problems filling mine in. It's all about contrast which was greatly improved on vtune when they made the changes to allow setting the color and block fill of the histogram. So it is quite possible to use a smaller display option.

[Scotty]

I would like to see if Dynojet sells keys to a PV, so we could have one dongle and tune multiple bikes.  That would be way cool for sure!!!!!

They already do that..............

[wurk_truk]

I would like to see if Dynojet sells keys to a PV, so we could have one dongle and tune multiple bikes.  That would be way cool for sure!!!!!

They already do that..............

Hey Scotty... Thanks!  Hope you are doing OK!

So, I could buy a PV with the wide band set up, use a key to generate a tune for a bike, then I still have the PV UNMARRIED to anything, and use a key for the next tune.

How much, roughly, are keys?

[Scotty]

I would like to see if Dynojet sells keys to a PV, so we could have one dongle and tune multiple bikes.  That would be way cool for sure!!!!!

They already do that..............

Hey Scotty... Thanks!  Hope you are doing OK!


So, I could buy a PV with the wide band set up, use a key to generate a tune for a bike, then I still have the PV UNMARRIED to anything, and use a key for the next tune.

How much, roughly, are keys?

http://blogs.dynojet.com/index.php/2012/03/licences-now-available-even-more-flexibility-with-from-the-best-h-d-flash-tuning-system-in-the-world/
I'm good mate..............the licenses are $199 each

[wurk_truk]

Actually...  that's not a bad price.

[oldguy]

Bob
You need the beta version, then enter a code that opens up more tables. The histo turns into a magnified version that shows your position within the individual cell and the actual lambda you are at within the cell. So if you are at a position in the cell that is halfway to the right of centre and halfway up from center (45 degrees up right side) it will show how your effect of the cells above and to the right are influencing the current lambda reading. It's pretty cool watching the cursor float around in the cell, displaying the info.

[jty]

Has anyone done SE120R engine &  Supertrapp 1-2 with PV?

[Ken R]

Entering my table data into Powervision.
It isn't hard.  One has to be aware that some of the cells in TTS display don't exist in PV.  (i.e. intermediate MAP cells of 45, 55, 65, etc)   And some in TTS don't exist in PV.  (i.e. MAP value of 15).  I'm not running the PV Beta just yet. . . it may open up more PV tables. 

One that doesn't seem to exist in PV that I liked in TTS is the Spark Temperature Correction that allowed the tuner to program spark based on engine heat.  Seemed like a good feature.  I wonder if PowerVision takes care of this function automatically.  I understand that PV does have a function that automatically reduces the timing in cells if it is too aggressive. 

One in PV that I particularly like is the availability to two Throttle Blade Control tables and a Throttle Blade Transition Gear constant that causes the ECM to swith back and forth between the Main and Alternate. TBC table.  For cone riding, I like my throttle to act as if it is cable-controlled.  Cone riding is always in 1st gear.  But for other casual riding, the normal throttle blade control is preferred.  No reason to open the throttle any more than the volume/RPM of the engine can ingest.

Most of the table data that came in the "canned" tune included from Fuel Moto is close to my motorcycle's dyno tune data that was done using TTS.  The timing was a bit more agressive in the cruising regime . . . but when my motor was tuned last year, we tried aggressive timing and took out 2 to 6 degrees in various places to eliminate pinging.   In other regimes, my existing timing was a bit more advanced than the canned tune. 

The canned tune had an idle spark advance of 16 degrees.  I lowered that to 12 degrees as it exists in my motor now. 

I entered my Lambda table precisely as it exists in my motorcycle; closed loop in some areas, open loop in the idle and power regimes.   My existing cruising regime Lambda is tuned for gas mileage (.988). 

One of the cool things in PV is that the 3-D graphic is always displayed in the lower right corner of the table data screens.  If I make a mistake hand entering data, it sticks out like a sore thumb in the 3-D graphic.  The graphic can be sized to full screen by dragging the window lines.  Cool.  Also, if you click on a cell in the table data, a little white cross appears in the 3-D graphic . . . lets you know exactly where you are in the graphic. 

NOTE:  I am not a technician or professional tuner.  I'm an end user that only knows enough to be dangerous.  Some of my conclusions may be incorrect.  Knowing my own limited skill and experience level, I will not take offense at any professional advice or corrections.   

[Sam45]

Ken the beta does have some spark temp control.  But I have more questions than answers as I am trying to learn and by the way I just come here to ask...

The new tables exposed from BETA where did it get the numbers to populate the tables?  Did they come from whats already there on the ECU?  If so I get why you have to plug into bike.  If not are those numbers from Dynojet?  Those tables already are in the bike right?

I can get through and pretty much understand the new tables under Environment.
But where does the bike get the spark adjust by Air Temp?  where does it take that measurement? and where did those numbers in that table come from?
Spark adjust by engine temp where does it get that?  that table is all ZEROS. Not to concerned with that if all ZEROS

The only one I do understand is Spark Knock by Head Temp I know where and what that temp is but again where did the values come from that are in that table? 

[Ken R]

I've been unable to install the beta firmware this weekend.  The beta "installer" software is reportedly not available on the website. 
I have downloaded the most recent beta software, but I think it requires the "installer" to actually put it into the device.   I'm anxious to see the tables that are available. 

Since I haven't married my PV to the motorcycle yet, so it'll be interesting to see if the tables you mention have data in them. 

Ken

[Tre_11 FLHX]

Alternative handlebar mount if you don't want to spend $80-100  http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003FMUP14/ref=oh_details_o01_s00_i00

[Sam45]

Ken,  you may know this but if not. 
Hook your power vision up to your computer then open WinPv Then go to top header Power Vision click scroll down to Diagnostic / Test Functions Then to Exit PC Link Mode.

Then you can poke through the power vision unit it self and explore set up gauges etc.

I dont know about it being unmarried but should work I guess.

[Ken R]

Ken,  you may know this but if not. 
Hook your power vision up to your computer then open WinPv Then go to top header Power Vision click scroll down to Diagnostic / Test Functions Then to Exit PC Link Mode.

Then you can poke through the power vision unit it self and explore set up gauges etc.

I dont know about it being unmarried but should work I guess.

I did not know.  Thanks.  The information for that option says that it disconnects the unit from PowerVision.  But it must leave power connected so one can play with the unit. 

I'm ready to marry to the motorcycle, but would like to see the beta - included tables first.  It would answer your question about that table data.

Ken

[Tre_11 FLHX]

Ken,
I've had the PV for about a year and I haven't done much with it since the map Jamie provided works pretty damn good. 

That being said, I'm thinking about purchasing the wide band auto tuner and begin playing.  I've read and re-read the users manual and it looks pretty straight forward.  I've got the FM head pipe so I am curious about the Auto tune.

Are you planning to tune without the auto tune?  Please keep the board informed as to your progress.

Tre'