Powervision over TTS

[HV]

Fortunately we have one Site Owner and one Mod That ( unless you haven't noticed ) NOT Only have the TTS on their own bikes but are very involved in the tuning using a TTS .... I don't Like or Dislike the TTS ..I don't use one or have any inclination to use one... I have not used or seen a PV either  ....so in that race I'm very neutreal ... ( For now ) ... I'm also NOT a Dyno tuner so I'm ignorant in that area as well...  I'm sure the TTS is here to stay..( Thank You for reassuring me of that ) ....... its just the Bickering with any one not using one that I would like to see go away ..I'm sure there is a better way to promote a product 

Enjoy your stay in the TTS Section 

[TXP]

I may get sent to the woodshed but that's ok too. Its not just product but. product support. Some companies have so devalued DynoJets Products with internet and phone sales that brick and mortar operations don't push them anymore. Some of these same companies have been told by TTS to abide by the agreement not to devalue the product or not sell it anymore and destroy the market for other retailers. Hence some sour grapes. You guys really think any tuner on here knows what Steve does about Delphi ECM's? I'll have to call bullshi% on that one. Why do you think HD went with TTS in the beginning? I have seen none of the TTS bashers credibly refute with evidence to back it up one thing, not even one claim Steve has made about how the Delphi systems works. Just opinion, conjecture, and some out right bullshi%. Okay ready for the woodshed now, lol.

[wurk_truk]

Fortunately we have one Site Owner and one Mod That ( unless you haven't noticed ) NOT Only have the TTS on their own bikes but are very involved in the tuning using a TTS .... I don't Like or Dislike the TTS ..I don't use one or have any inclination to use one... I have not used or seen a PV either  ....so in that race I'm very neutreal ... ( For now ) ... I'm also NOT a Dyno tuner so I'm ignorant in that area as well...  I'm sure the TTS is here to stay..( Thank You for reassuring me of that ) ....... its just the Bickering with any one not using one that I would like to see go away ..I'm sure there is a better way to promote a product 

Enjoy your stay in the TTS Section 

Who bashed DJ products in this thread?  We all told him to NOT buy a PV, because he already owner a tuner, and I am SURE that response would have been the same no matter HOW you mix up TTS, PV, and SEPST...  he already HAD a tuner... use that.

I guess that is where I will stay Brian.  How you describe things on this site are NO WHERE How most of us see them.  Where is anyone even CLOSE to BVBob and Jim coming into threads that have to do with TTS?  Nobody, not even close.  You guys don't even see or think like we do, you guys act like members and not the MOds/ Owners you SHOULD act like.  Show me ANY company on here that has received the grief TTS has over the last 4 years?  And, I LIKE heated arguments, too.  But this gets over the top more times than not.

And you think Dynojet gets grief?  Gimme a break.

ALL, I wish to do, is be a normal member and ENJOY talking about tuning, etc, but that can NOT happen when the haters come in and get threads locked, because believe you me, those threads would NOT have been locked but for the haters stirring "Potty mouth" up.

Uhhh.... of COURSE Steve knows...  and, truth be told, the reason I use TTS at this point, is because I can come HERE, to HTT, and ask the dude that makes MY product.  Where is any other manufacturer, Brian?  So everyone talks yahoo crap about our only member that actually makes a product?  I would venture to say that 99% of our site's collective knowledge came from two guys, in regards to the Delphi ECM, and 90 of that came from Steve (10% from FBRR).   If you feel for one moment, that we should listen to a dealer or tuner explain this stuff, I wish to smoke some of THAT!  HAHA!  I, myself, would rather listen to a guy who has actually sat down with manufacturers, and most assuredly OUR (MOCO) manufacturer, to teach all of us things.....

And you are saying it is me?  ALL I ever do is simply refer to the thread by Whittlebeast about how GREAT the PV was, and then proved to all of our satisfaction the PV was outputting erroneous information into its own version of datamaster...  a thread on HERE, HTT?  This was NOT opinion at all, BTW.  So, if closed loop is for idiots, TTS has some bugs, v-tuning doesn't work...  opinions...  I can dig that thread up, I'm sure.  Also, fairly certain THAT will/did get fixed in the PV, except...  no one from DJ is here to refute this stuff.

[Tre_11 FLHX]

Unlike Brian, I've used both and IMHO, I like the PV better.  I spent 3 years with the TTS My biggest complaint was having to haul the laptop around. 

Agree Steve supports his product, but in private conversation with him, He loves him some Steve. Just saying 

I've had great support from DJ (Dan Hurigan), Jamie from fuel moto and other tuners from this site.  Neither of which bash the competition.

I find it amusing that the TTS fan bois take this "Potty mouth" so seriously.  I'm not a tuner, but I can tell you that PV is strong competition for TTS and you don't have to haul a laptop.

Tre'

[HV]

How you describe things on this site are NO WHERE How most of us[/s]  ( YOU )  see them

There I fixed THAT one for you .... 

[sfmichael]

 
  "Agree Steve supports his product, but in private conversation with him, He loves him some Steve. Just saying" 

  heehee   

[Rider57]

I enjoy getting bad data, bad info, bad instruction along with misleading product claims!
It confirms my suspicions of history within a company.
As usual, ideals within a company are the slowest to change with making the product look like the newest, latest, greatest in the forefront.
There are many reasons I don't use certain products for tuning and only one reason for using what I use.
It's not a matter of "closest one wins", it's a matter of being correct out of the box.
PC1, II, III, PVC, Twintec, LM1/LM2, EMS..........name it. I've bought, tested it and put it on the shelf if it didn't work as advertized.
TTS is not on the shelf. Yes, I have tested it. Yes, I use it.
There aren't many dyno techs out there that know what they are doing on the dyne let alone what tuning software to use, between 5 and 10 nation wide is something I heard from a well known tuner in Florida. I somewhat agree, I think it's less than 7.
I don't post much, but I do read the posts. Some are amusing, some aren't. Many make claims that I cant duplicate, sans 1.

[TXP]

Dan would be a great addition to the site. He is VERY knowledgeable and one of DynoJets most valuable assets. Having an engineer help tuners and DIY'ers learn more about how/why things work the way they do with their particular product is IMO a solid way to generate sales.

[Sam45]

Fortunately we have one Site Owner and one Mod That ( unless you haven't noticed ) NOT Only have the TTS on their own bikes but are very involved in the tuning using a TTS .... I don't Like or Dislike the TTS ..I don't use one or have any inclination to use one... I have not used or seen a PV either  ....so in that race I'm very neutreal ... ( For now ) ... I'm also NOT a Dyno tuner so I'm ignorant in that area as well...  I'm sure the TTS is here to stay..( Thank You for reassuring me of that ) ....... its just the Bickering with any one not using one that I would like to see go away ..I'm sure there is a better way to promote a product 

Enjoy your stay in the TTS Section 

Who bashed DJ products in this thread?  We all told him to NOT buy a PV, because he already owner a tuner, and I am SURE that response would have been the same no matter HOW you mix up TTS, PV, and SEPST...  he already HAD a tuner... use that.

I guess that is where I will stay Brian.  How you describe things on this site are NO WHERE How most of us see them.  Where is anyone even CLOSE to BVBob and Jim coming into threads that have to do with TTS?  Nobody, not even close.  You guys don't even see or think like we do, you guys act like members and not the MOds/ Owners you SHOULD act like.  Show me ANY company on here that has received the grief TTS has over the last 4 years?  And, I LIKE heated arguments, too.  But this gets over the top more times than not.

And you think Dynojet gets grief?  Gimme a break.

ALL, I wish to do, is be a normal member and ENJOY talking about tuning, etc, but that can NOT happen when the haters come in and get threads locked, because believe you me, those threads would NOT have been locked but for the haters stirring "Potty mouth" up.

Uhhh.... of COURSE Steve knows...  and, truth be told, the reason I use TTS at this point, is because I can come HERE, to HTT, and ask the dude that makes MY product.  Where is any other manufacturer, Brian?  So everyone talks yahoo crap about our only member that actually makes a product?  I would venture to say that 99% of our site's collective knowledge came from two guys, in regards to the Delphi ECM, and 90 of that came from Steve (10% from FBRR).   If you feel for one moment, that we should listen to a dealer or tuner explain this stuff, I wish to smoke some of THAT!  HAHA!  I, myself, would rather listen to a guy who has actually sat down with manufacturers, and most assuredly OUR (MOCO) manufacturer, to teach all of us things.....

And you are saying it is me?  ALL I ever do is simply refer to the thread by Whittlebeast about how GREAT the PV was, and then proved to all of our satisfaction the PV was outputting erroneous information into its own version of datamaster...  a thread on HERE, HTT?  This was NOT opinion at all, BTW.  So, if closed loop is for idiots, TTS has some bugs, v-tuning doesn't work...  opinions...  I can dig that thread up, I'm sure.  Also, fairly certain THAT will/did get fixed in the PV, except...  no one from DJ is here to refute this stuff.

LoL  Its a competition in here and it is TTS land they are even better at getting more grief LoL.  I have TTS and Power Vision I know where to go to  search for what I want.  I do have a preference but am thankful to everybody for their time in the forums.  I wish the nick picking, bickering and all the BS.  taking sides etc. was kept to a minimal occasional thing but unfortunately its the norm in the EFI world.  People like myself are left to walk the volitional roads and make our best tune.  I was worried that I was not going to get my bike running good and be able to be in some what control of it lets face it, its not eye surgery LoL. All is ok now and looking back if it was not for ALL and I stress ALL in both tuner camps I would not be where I am at today and thank you all for that..

[Tsani]

First and foremost, it's not TTS land here, it's HTT land.
Second, weather or not you like a guy or his attitiude should have no bearing on a intelligent insightful discussion about a product.
Third, big problem in these discussions has been failure to back up statements stated as fact, on both sides. Granted, sometimes a vendor can't say everything to prove their point, weather it be Steve or Jamie. You can't expect a vendor to give away info to his competition. Others, a different story. But I think most of us can separate fact from fiction.

It's real simple. As a DIY'er, I don't care if you like or don't like someone. All this crap does is muck up the waters. I wonder if some folks are worried about the direction tuning is going. Well don't. Plenty of room for everyone. So how about cutting the third grade attituides and name calling and just act like men trying to learn and help for a change. Both the PV and the TTS are good products, each with  their pros and cons and both are going to get better and be aroubd for a while. At least till the industry changes and the EPA gets their way once and for all.

Other than that, this akin to an oil  thread. Winter is coming.

[Tsani]

Oh, BTW, TTS and PV land are over in the Vendor area.

[hrdtail78]

Unlike Brian, I've used both and IMHO, I like the PV better.  I spent 3 years with the TTS My biggest complaint was having to haul the laptop around. 

Agree Steve supports his product, but in private conversation with him, He loves him some Steve. Just saying 

I've had great support from DJ (Dan Hurigan), Jamie from fuel moto and other tuners from this site.  Neither of which bash the competition.

I find it amusing that the TTS fan bois take this "Potty mouth" so seriously.  I'm not a tuner, but I can tell you that PV is strong competition for TTS and you don't have to haul a laptop.

Tre'

One of the biggest problems I see with starting heated discusions.  I'm a koolaid drinker, lemming, or a fanboi because I have used and like the TTS product for 5 years. But, the guys that jump on the vision wagon after tuning one bike with it are fine.  And these are the same people dropping the names.  Give me a break.

There are different opinions here.  Different tuning strategies.  All is good.  We can discuss, argue, and yell at each other all we want.  What I don't understand is.  If you have an argument, back it up with real world.  Just don't name call because you have ran into the limit of your knowledge and that's all you have left.

[Sam45]

Oh, BTW, TTS and PV land are over in the Vendor area.

I have to take the high road.  I dont want to get banned I need a some place to come to when I need info on my TTS..

[strokerjlk]

5 and 10 nation wide is something I heard from a well known tuner in Florida. I somewhat agree, I think it's less than 7.

I agree there isn't many.
But my list would probably look diff

[Tre_11 FLHX]

weather or not you like a guy or his attitiude attitude should have no bearing on a intelligent insightful discussion about a product.

TSANI it has a lot of bearing on who I will deal with.  I personally won't deal with a company if they have the cure for world hunger and I'm starving if their attitude sucks, attitude and professionalism means a lot to me.

I wasn't saying TTS is worse than a PV.  I've used TTS since 08, hasn't been the most user friendly product.  Once Doc published the instructions, it was easier.  I agree since the OP already has a TTS, dial it in with that.  I on the other hand chose to give the PV a try, wasn't a big fan of it either initially.  With the release of the AT feature in the Beta, along with some recommendations from tuners on this site, my bike has never run better.

That and I like the fact that I don't have to strap a laptop on the back, hook up a display (if I want to see what cells I'm hitting) Etc. Fact is, I can do a tune run any time I want as I have the PV mounted on my scoot and it's simple. 

To go on record:  I was never a fan of any of the of the DJ PC products or DTT products, but DJ with their PV, in my OPINION is stiff competition for TTS and gives the end user a viable choice.

Tre'

[BVHOG]

  "Agree Steve supports his product, but in private conversation with him, He loves him some Steve. Just saying" 

  heehee   

And therein the problem lies, but don't bash him for self love, Woody Allen once said "don't knock masturbation, it's sex with someone I love" Steve has a decent product, the best? debatable but certainly one of the best.  For the OP or anyone else, if you have the TTS then you would be a fool to spend money on the PV same as someone with a super tuner spending money on the TTS thinking it wont produce a great running bike because of what they may have read on the internet.
A large percentage of the problems here could easily be rectified if all the TTS threads were just moved to the vendor section.

[tdkkart]

With the release of the AT feature in the Beta, along with some recommendations from tuners on this site, my bike has never run better.

That and I like the fact that I don't have to strap a laptop on the back, hook up a display (if I want to see what cells I'm hitting) Etc. Fact is, I can do a tune run any time I want as I have the PV mounted on my scoot and it's simple.

As a TTS user for over a year and a PV user for 2 weeks, I have to say the PV is some SERIOUS competition for the TTS.

Right out of the box, the map sent to me by Fuelmoto when I purchased the PV kicks ass over the TTS tune that I thought I had running pretty damn decent.
Although, even though I had spent considerable time tuning with the TTS, I'll be the first to admit that I hadn't worked with it as much as I should have, simply because the TTS had become a pain in the ass to use.

Laptop, laptop charger, remote display, cordless mouse for when the touchscreen refused to work, cables etc etc. Then loosing it all when the computer crashed or locked up in the middle of a v-tune. AARRGH!!!

The PV is permanently mounted to the bike for now, lets me see everything I need to see, and more, at the push of a button while riding. Even 100 miles from home, if I notice a rideability issue I can start a datalog while I'm riding, duplicate the situation right then and there so it's recorded, and then deal with it when I have time. This past Saturday we rode about 150mi, I did 8 seperate datalogs* while riding under different conditions, and then dealt with them after I got home. Sunday we rode approx. 200mi, I verified that some of my changes worked, a couple need more work.
So far the bike gets better mileage, has more power, and runs smoother overall than anything I had using the TTS.

So far the PV's operation has been flawless, not one single hiccup.

*need to clarify, "datalogs" as in simply recording the data coming from the ECM(32 available signals), NOT v-tuning, NOT autotuning etc, simply recording the data for later use.

[hdmanillac]

I agree with that !

[Tsani]

Tre', wasn't trying to single you out. I happen to agree with you large part about attitude, etc. But I just wanted to point out that it seemed/seems that a large part of the TTS questions almost always turn negetive due a personal grudge match which really has no place on TTS. I am sure the PV is serious competition for TTS and I think that is a good thing. Can't wait to see how it developes. And Like BVHog and others have said, the OP should use what he has unless he wants to spend more money. If the OP cannot learn to use the tools then it does not matter IMHO if he uses the TTS or the PV, the results will be the same. As for not dragging the LT around, I think the new TTS interface helps with that. It will data log on it's own. True, you have no screen to look at. That may change, who knows but with either setup, you still need a computer in the end.

[EGNBLUE]

...This past Saturday we rode about 150mi, I did 8 seperate datalogs while riding under different conditions, and then dealt with them after I got home. Sunday we rode approx. 200mi, I verified that some of my changes worked, a couple need more work...

I was sold on this product until the above couple lines.

On a 150 mile ride you did 8 different data logs and then the next day did another 200 miles only to find the tune still needed more work.

It would seem you've spent quite a bit of both time and money with two different systems and still can't get the tune correct.  Maybe there's an issue someplace else 

[rbabos]

...This past Saturday we rode about 150mi, I did 8 seperate datalogs while riding under different conditions, and then dealt with them after I got home. Sunday we rode approx. 200mi, I verified that some of my changes worked, a couple need more work...

I was sold on this product until the above couple lines.

On a 150 mile ride you did 8 different data logs and then the next day did another 200 miles only to find the tune still needed more work.

It would seem you've spent quite a bit of both time and money with two different systems and still can't get the tune correct.  Maybe there's an issue someplace else 

Maybe you missed the point it ran better out of the box than it did with all the time he spent using TTS. A decent close cal will do that rather than the standard generic cals that need a lot more work to make them right. Dyno tuners don't much care since it's start from scratch anyway.  For a DIYr starting really close and only needing a few small teeks is a blessing.
Ron

[tdkkart]

...This past Saturday we rode about 150mi, I did 8 seperate datalogs while riding under different conditions, and then dealt with them after I got home. Sunday we rode approx. 200mi, I verified that some of my changes worked, a couple need more work...

I was sold on this product until the above couple lines.

On a 150 mile ride you did 8 different data logs and then the next day did another 200 miles only to find the tune still needed more work.

It would seem you've spent quite a bit of both time and money with two different systems and still can't get the tune correct.  Maybe there's an issue someplace else 

Whoa there big fella!!
Before you crawl all over me and the product, have a listen so you better understand.

The 2 days worth of riding this weekend were strictly recreational rides with the ole' lady on board, they were not intended to be tuning runs at all. These were the first miles I had ridden 2-up since starting to use the PV, so I took the opportunity to pay attention to how things were working when loaded.

Saturday.........
I noticed that I had some very light detonation at 70mph, both on level ground, and while climbing slight grades, but not under heavy acceleration. This was verified both by ear and by the knock retard gauges that I had setup on the PV screen. So I made several couple datalog recordings of these while rolling down the road.
I also noted that I had some ping under light acceleration from 60 mph and above in 6th gear. Did a couple recordings here too.
Noticed a couple other small issues,under hard acceleration, recorded those too.

After returning home I pulled up all the datalogs in MegaLogViewer and tweaked all the issues, added some fuel here and there, pulled some timing here and there.

Sunday........
Loaded up the map that I had modified Saturday night.(1 map, several changes)
While out riding I verifed that I had gotten rid of all the ping in the 70+mph range, and most in the 60mph range, more work to do here.
I did not however account for riding at 50mph in 5th gear in hilly terrain, so I made a couple recordings of that to see what I need to do there also.


This is what it's all about is it not?? Make a change, try it out change it again as needed.
Sure, I could have "fixed" the whole issue by pulling 10 degrees of timing out of the whole map and added a "Potty mouth" load of fuel(I've seen some maps that did this) and gone down the road but that's not the point is it??

To this point with the PV I've made 2 or 3 autotune runs, and made 2 manual map changes with another one up coming.
Is this too much??
Shoul I have been able to zero in on this faster if I wasn't the dumbass you think I am??

BTW, due to lack of decent fuel around here, all my tuning so far has been with 87 octane non-ethanol gas.
Once I'm satisfied with this I'll try some 89octane E-10. I might end up riding alot more and doing several more runs and changes.
Or should I just quit while I'm ahead??
   

[Jeffd]

...This past Saturday we rode about 150mi, I did 8 seperate datalogs while riding under different conditions, and then dealt with them after I got home. Sunday we rode approx. 200mi, I verified that some of my changes worked, a couple need more work...

I was sold on this product until the above couple lines.

On a 150 mile ride you did 8 different data logs and then the next day did another 200 miles only to find the tune still needed more work.

It would seem you've spent quite a bit of both time and money with two different systems and still can't get the tune correct.  Maybe there's an issue someplace else 

I spent a lot more time and miles then that doing my vtuning with tts and I bet everybody that was looking for the perfect tune did as well lol.

[HV]

Just FYI...I have my new RG arriving this week and it WILL be getting a PV... so let the fun begin  ..I love a new challenge...

[Coyote]

...This past Saturday we rode about 150mi, I did 8 seperate datalogs while riding under different conditions, and then dealt with them after I got home. Sunday we rode approx. 200mi, I verified that some of my changes worked, a couple need more work...

I was sold on this product until the above couple lines.

On a 150 mile ride you did 8 different data logs and then the next day did another 200 miles only to find the tune still needed more work.

It would seem you've spent quite a bit of both time and money with two different systems and still can't get the tune correct.  Maybe there's an issue someplace else 

I spent a lot more time and miles then that doing my vtuning with tts and I bet everybody that was looking for the perfect tune did as well lol.

More like a couple of months and 750-1000 miles for mine.