70t or 65t rear pulley

[97dyna]

Pros and cons - (no belt, no pulley) on a 97 dyna - woods w6 cam, mikuni 42mm carb.  Any advantage in a 65 t rear pulley?

[Hillside Motorcycle]

With a 65T pulley, it'll feel like a turd.

[Buddy WMC]

97Dyna,

Do yourself a favor and do a  search under "FXR Gearing", or in the FXR Topical Index on this very subject. You will find the results very interesting as Classicrider did alot of research to assist me with the same decision. I ultimately decided to go all the way, spend the money and installed a Baker DD6 on my 93 modified FXLR. Best of both worlds keeping the gearing the same a 3.37 through the first five gears and having the OD sixth. In other words, no loss of performance on the street and a substantial drop in RPM for high speed Interstate cruising.

As Hillside comments, to elaborate a bit with your higher overall primary gear ratio all five gears will be effected. Different models were equipped with different primary and secondary gearing. Classic did the math for several combinations of primary and secondary gearing options to cover the various combinations.

[98flstc]

What does it all take to switch to a 70t rear?

[ClassicRider2002]

Pros and cons - (no belt, no pulley) on a 97 dyna - woods w6 cam, mikuni 42mm carb.  Any advantage in a 65 t rear pulley?

97dyna~

First of all you are asking the above for a reason, so what is it that you don't appreciate in your riding of your dyna that you are trying to modify......?

Am I correct in assuming that you are running OEM with a 25T compensating sprocket, 36T clutch shell basket/ring gear, 32T transmission sprocket, 70T rear wheel sprocket and a 133T rear belt?  Thus you are running OEM 3.15 final gearing?




What does it all take to switch to a 70t rear?

98flstc~~

When you start changing the size of your rear wheel sprocket.....you get into changing your belt additionally....which makes the entire process a bit more costly as well.

Once again you are asking for a reason, so what are you trying to accomplish that you are not appreciating in your ride right now.....if you share a bit about that....then maybe some recommendations could be offered....

I will say to both of you however that "gearing" is a great way to change how the bike feels making it have more feeling of torque or having you feel less vibration at speed because you are adjusting your RPM band....sometimes however the change is not always what you intend it to do for you.....so if you guys will take a bit of time and offer what you are trying to accomplish then perhaps some suggestions could be made....

Remember also that gearing is only a part of the end result....sometimes making things better some times taking away from what you already have....

Regards,

"Classic"

[98flstc]

Classic,

Thanks for your reply. I did go through the FXR topics in relation to this subject and did notice one post were a the rider had a 97 or 98 springer that went to a 70t pulley with no belt change. Maybe he had enough adjusment travel?

What I'm trying to acheive is moving the power band a  little more to the low end. My 98 Heritage has the stock 2.92 gearing I'm running SE heads,W6 cam, .030 cometic head gaskets and a CV carb. 2 up riding in the rolling hills of southeast Minnesota tends to keep you at around 50-55 mph at best and at times 5th gear is just a little too much. I also would like to have a better 5th gear roll on.  I've been messing around with the idea of changing compensating sprockets to achieve what I'm looking for maybe going from the stock 25 to a 24 or 23. But in my discussions with the tech people at Baker my only option is to use either a 21 or 24 with the stock 36 tooth clutch sprocket. I feel the 21 tooth comp sprocket would be too much and the 24 not enough to be significant so it looks like the next alternative..(time and cost wise) is the 70 tooth rear pulley.  Maybe the 21 tooth comp would not be that bad??? I'd be turning nearly 3700 rpm @ 80 with the 3.77 gearing a 21 tooth would provide. Right now  the stock config turns about 3100 at the same speed.

Decisions,decisions....

[ClassicRider2002]

98flstc~~~

Ok....to get to your 2.925 final gearing are you running:
25T Compensating Sprocket
36T Clutch Shell Basket/Ring Gear
32T Transmimssion Sprocket
65T Rear Wheel Sprocket
133T Rear Belt

This is actually the set up for my 1999 FXR2.  You may require a bit longer belt because of the frame perhaps....

But is this your basic set up.....? ? ?

If it is then you could go to the following:
24T Compensating Sprocket
37T Clutch Shell Basket/Ring Gear       primary chain                no change
32T Transmission Sprocket  no change
65T Rear Wheel Sprocket    no change
___T Belt   no change


This would net you a final gearing of 3.13 which is shorter than your taller 2.925

which will net you 7% more torque....which is pretty substantial.....cost would probably be around $400.00.

2.925 Final Gearing which is Your OEM gearing @ 70 mph in 5th = 2677 PRMS
3.131 Final Gearing which results from modifying Comp & Clutch Shell Basket @ 70mph in 5th = 2866

Which increases your RPMS right @ 200.

Which probably explains a bit of your delima....that cam is coming on a bit late for your riding style.....at 55 MPH you are barely turning over 2100 RPMS which makes your 5th gear pretty unusable with that W6 cam which has what a 40 intake close angle....which puts it not getting into the meat of that cam until around 2500 RPMS or so.....give or take a 100 RPMS.....

Your 5th gear right now is an "extreme" over drive type of gear....of which you seldom see if you want any pull at all with your bike the way it is set up...

Right now with your build, ie: EVO, Screaming Eagle Heads CC out of the box at 72, 0.030 HG, W6 cam (40 intake close angle), stock pistons, your corrected/dynamic compression is at 8.78:1 @ sea level, your at about 179 cranking compression psi, and your static compression ie: mechanical not moving is at 9.53:1 compression....and you are running a bike which is similar to a RK or RKC...pretty darn close and you like having more torque than you have with your current build.....the issue isn't that you have a "bad" cam....it's that you are trying to make that cam work but your enviornment isn't going to let you....unless you forget all about 5th gear.....

Let's look at 4th gear for you:

4th gear @ 55 MPH = 2600 RPMS
4th gear @ 70 MPH = 3300 RPMS

In 4th gear you are in the meat of that cam a lot better which makes you wonder why you even have 5th gear.....because in 5th gear you feel mushy and sluggish....with the W6 you don't have a roll on option in 5th gear.....it takes too long....so you end up down shifting.....

Now let's just change the cam to one you might look at and see what happens to your RPMS Andrews EV13

2.925 Final Gearing which is Your OEM gearing @ 70 mph in 5th = 2677 PRMS
3.131 Final Gearing which results from modifying Comp & Clutch Shell Basket @ 70mph in 5th = 2866

You essentially will wake up your bike....because the EV13 has an intake close angle of 30 and you will move your power band all the way over to the left ie: more torque....you just said that most of your riding is in the hilly south east MN where your speeds don't get much over 50-55 thus a "Cam" shift for you seems a great solution.....don't get me wrong the W6 is a great cam....but it's not a great cam for your riding enviornment....

My point even if you change your gearing a bit you still will be riding in the RPMS outside the "meat" of the W6 cam.

Ummm a new cam will cost you about $200.00 to do the job. 

Here is what your corrected compression will look like with this cam:

9.11:1 corrected compression, Static Compression 9.53:1 and your cranking compression will be aprx 188 psi all quite doable....

The EV13 will take you to the extreme left....meaning the most torque you can get down low.....up to around 4400 RPMS or so....and you aren't going there much I would assume.....

All I am trying to point out is that instead of messing with gears mess with your cam.....I think you might have the wrong one.....something to think about....

If you change your transmission pully, and rear wheel sprocket along with a belt your into that modification for $400 or so as well....and when you change this area you affect your speedo's accuracy.

If you change the comp sprocket and cluch shell basket/ring gear set up no speedo change, fairly simple to accomplish but around 400.00 and all you will pick up is 200 RPMS, where as if you

Change your cam you can competely shift your torque curve....and "perhaps" arrive at a "more" fun" bike to ride given your enviornment....at a mere cost of only $200.00 to find out....

My 1999 FXR2 weighs in at 670 lbs wet meaning with fluids....what's your springer weigh?  I love that 2.295 gearing.....and I am running it stock except for a EVL-3010....

By the way....are you riding around Rushford or the Harmony Area....south of Rochester apx 70 miles I think....that's some beautiful country to ride in....ie: rolling hills and beautiful.....

Regards,

"Classic"

[98flstc]

Classic,

Thanks again for sharing your vast knowledge. And yes I do ride a fair amount in the Rushford,Root Rivey Valley area. And yes it is a some beautiful country darn near in my own back yard.  I will agree that the cam may not be my best choice but I just recently installed it. I thought I did my homework but possibly not enough... I think what I'll end up doing is looking at the 24t comp sprocket and 37t clutch basket. Would you happen to have any part numbers or manf's of these two items?

Thanks again,

98

[ClassicRider2002]

I think what I'll end up doing is looking at the 24t comp sprocket and 37t clutch basket. Would you happen to have any part numbers or manf's of these two items?

98~~

Yes actually I do!

24T compensating Sprocket = HD# 40269-85
37T Clutch Shell & Sprocket w/ring gear HD# 37846.99a

remember your primary chain stays the same as what you are using.

Here is a "LINK" to some "THREADS" about changing out the gearing you may or may not find helpful, even though these "THREADS" concentrate on the "TWIN CAM" engine....the gearing modification of changing the compensator sprocket to a 24T and changing the clutch shell basket/ring gear to a 37T is what you are doing anyway.....so if you like, SIMPLY, CLICK, VIEW & READ:

INDEX OF 3.37 FINAL GEARING DISCUSSIONS

Just remember when you do the modification from 2.925 gearing to the 24T comp and the 37 Clutch Shell you will go to 3.13 final gearing....and not 3.37 gearing....but I am including the "THREADS" above so that you can see the discussions about the 24T Comp and the 37T Clutch Shell.....plus you will see what people were saying about doing the modification.....as you may know the 1999-2001 EFI MM Touring Bikes came with 3.37 Final gearing while the Carb bikes came with 3.15 gearing.  Then when HD changed to the Delphi EFI system in 2002 they brought the touring bikes in 3.15 gearing for both the carb and Delphi EFI bikes.......So guys/gals in 2004+ began figuring out that they could change the Comp Sprocket and the Clutch Shell Basket realitively iinexpensively and were picking up some additional "torque" ie: fun.....

My personal opinion however is that I believe a lot of the guys (and maybe some gals too) were putting later intake close angled cams in with higher durations and their bikes were feeling sluggish and mushy not as responsive as they were hoping so they found this modification would essentially wake up their bikes.....so a lot of folks made the switch over......I too did this modification to my 2002 RKC. 

Regards,

"Classic"

[64heritage]

Hey 98 flstc where abouts do you live in S.E, MN  i live in the rochester area and have riden down by rushford and caledonia area many times-always nice to see another minnesotan on this site-swede is right might be better to find a cam that fits where you want the powerband to be than change your gearing if for no other reason than cost-by the way its a balmy 38 today and saw some guys ride in to the local harley shop today its damn near a heat wave

[98flstc]

Heritage64,

I'm just to your west about 20 miles. Your not going to see me on a bike anytime soon thats for sure! way too much salt & sand for my tastes.

Classic,

Thanks for the pn#s I did find a 24t comp sprocket in on the JP website at 1/2 the cost of some other sources. This will put the cost of the swap at about $300 bucks. If the JP part is the correct one???

Thanks again for all the help.

98'

[Buddy WMC]

Make sure that you use Genuine HD parts for your swap, I've seen some real aftermarket junk out there far as compensator assemblies, clutch baskets and hubs go. To save some cash, double check your part numbers on the compensator, you might only need the 24T sprocket only and the rest might be reusable. It's also possible that your current clutch hub may also work with just a new basket assembly.

[ClassicRider2002]

good advice buddy.....

Regards,

"Classic"

[98flstc]

Classic,

One last question. I promise

The HD pn#s you provided for the sprocket and clutch shell are these just for twin cam fitment?? or will they also work in EVO primarys? I'm assuming they do but I just would like to confirm.

Thanks

98'

[ClassicRider2002]

"........The HD pn#s you provided for the sprocket and clutch shell are these just for twin cam fitment?? or will they also work in EVO primarys? I'm assuming they do but I just would like to confirm......"

ask as many questions as you like.....

The answer is the following.......

Long Answer:
I can tell you that for my 1999 FXR2 the OEM 25T Comp the OEM 36T Clutch Shell Basket, as well as the OEM Primary Chain all have the same part numbers as my 2002 RKC original OEM 25T Comp, 36T Clutch Shell Basket, and the OEM Primary Chain.  The tensioner pads are different however.  By the way when/if you do make the modification to 3.13 gearing also change out your primary tensioner pad....and after 500 miles check the tension on the primary pad tensioner.

Short Answer:
Yes.

Side Answer:

One of the benefits for me personally given that I own a 1999 FXR2 (evo) and a 2002 RKC (Twin Cam) is that the both of these part numbers are the exact same as confirmed by my parts manual.....and because of that....I purchased a brand new 36T Clutch Shell Basket complete with clutch hub, 5207 bearing, friction plates, bolts, the whole "Shootin" match for $150.00 brand new in the box never opened....now because of that....I have 3 options....say my 1999 FXR2's clutch shell pack goes bad.....I remove it and put in the new one I have in the box....all for the price of a outer primary gasket....say I decide I want to go back to 3.15 final gearing....I still have my 24T comp sprocket so I can make the switch out in a couple of hours....all for the price of a outer primary gasket.....so I have some amazing flexibilty.....normally that clutch shell basket "complete" sells for $356.00 brand new....so take 20% off and that's $284.00 but I only paid $150.00 so it's one of those "good deals".....lol

So to make my answer even longer I know for a fact everything works....in fact the outer cover of my primary for my 1999 FXR2 is the same part number as for my 2002 RKC.  It's amazing how much "duplicates" when you carefully examin part numbers.....

BUT BECAUSE OF THE differences in the INNER PRIMARYS between the two different bikes...there is your reason for the differences in the TENSIONER PAD.

ok when pulling out my 1999 FXR2 parts manual and my 2002 RKC parts number the only difference between the Clutch Shell Basket between my 1999 FXR2 and 2002 RKC is the part number for the friction plate package is HD #37912-98A for the 1999 FXR2 vs the 2002 RKC friction plates package which is HD#  37912-98A.  So.....the answer is if you are going to purchase a brand new clutch shell basket and you want a 37T clutch shell basket....and you use the part number of 37846-99A assume that the friction plate portion within the clutch shell basket is using different numbers for some reason.....and I am not exactly sure why......YOU COULD call a dealer and ask them if you wanted to replace your FRICTION PLATES what part number would they provide you....to see if it stays consistant with the part number currently in your Parts Manual for your specific bike......So if YOU feel your "FRICTION PLATES" are still worthy of continued service then my answer above would still be YES....but if you need NEW friction plates for your bike then the answer is only "partially" yes....because everything is exactly a cross reference (at LEAST FOR MY 1999 FXR2 as an EVO) when it comes to the parts that are included in the CLUTCH SHELL BASKET "ASSEMBLY" EXCEPT for the 9 FRICTION PLATES and why those numbers are a bit different I am not entirely sure.  If you wish to simply purchase the Clutch Shell Basket /with ring gear from someone "used" then the above part number will work and your clutch hub from your set up will go into it as well....and you will need to bring over your friction plates.....make sense?

Regards,

"Classic"

[98flstc]

"Classic"

Thanks again for sharing your knowledge. I see some 3.13 gearing in my very near future!

98'

[ClassicRider2002]

you are welcome....

Merry Christmas.....oh wait....it just looks like Christmas.....cold and snowing in Colorado...LOL

Regards,

"Classic"

[98flstc]

Just a follow up.

I was fortunate to find/purchase both HD OEM parts 37846-99A(37T Shell) and 40269-85A(24T comp. sprkt) with 5K miles on them for $250.00 dollars shipped to my door.   

Over the weekend I removed the stock gearing and confirmed the tooth counts(25&36) I'm fortunate to have access to a press and so today I pressed the clutch pack out of the 36 tooth shell. I should have my other parts by the end of the week and I'll have this job taken care of. !

[ClassicRider2002]

AWESOME!!!!!

Sounds like you are making great progress.

Let us all know what you think when you have put some miles on it.....

Regards,

"Classic"