which cams would you reccomend

[harleyp]

i have a 2012 flhtk 107   10.5 cp pistons, RR stage 4 heads, DD 2-1 exhaust  TTS  woods 555 currently hp 113  tq 122
i would like to get my torque to stay in there longer

[Ohio HD]

If you like Wood cams, probably the TW8-6 with the compression you have, and if you wanted to try an Andrews, the 55H does a good job of staying in the torque from 2,500 to 5,000 RPM. The wood cam may come in sooner. 

[1FSTRK]

Could you post a copy of your dyno graph? It would be nice to see the TQ curve you have now.

[Hillside Motorcycle]

Yep.
The 8 cam will enhance the mid-upper hp and torque output.
To optimize the effectiveness of it, 10.75 would be the ticket.
If the heads are set up to handle a 408, then that would be a good choice also, @ your existing compression ratio.
Scott

[harleyp]

tried to post dyno file is to big

[harleyp]

[attach=0]


[attachment removed after 60 days by system]

[1FSTRK]

What is your CCP?
What TB? (to small?)
Which DnD?
It looks like you have plenty of cylinder pressure down low but you seem to lack flow. A cam can help but it is not the main hold up here. The TW555 will peak out closer to 6000 with all else right.

[BVHOG]

If I were to change cams for this setup I would be looking into the T-man 590, a slightly earlier intake closing than the Wood 8 but very similar, they are an aggressive cam but have a silent ramp design that the wood 8's do not. The 8's will be noticed in the form of vavle train clatter.  I have ran both in my own bike and prefer the T-man 590's. I have also used the 590 in a 107 with R&R stage 3 heads and ended up with a nice broad torque curve.

[harleyp]

205 ccp   fat cat quiet baffle    stock throttle body

[Hillside Motorcycle]

[attach=0]

That cam, or pipe doesn't fall off a cliff @ 4800.
Something is causing this............
Throttle body is probably the pinch, but we'll have to wait to see what the t/body police say......
Scott

[Hillside Motorcycle]

\\

[N-gin]

Stage 4 heads. What valve size?

[DTTJGlide]

What were Jason's recommendations?

[05FLHTC]

Fueling 574 runs alot like an 8 only silent 

[Hillside Motorcycle]

408 does not have a history of noise, or maybe it does with the Wood haters.
Doesn't matter either way.
Scott

[Bakon]

I love the 408 or 400 at 10.5:1. Both run up hp till redline but 408 started easier.

[Bakon]

Probably like 400 better. More grunt

[ndmp40]

100 ft lbs of torque from 2500 to 5800.

I fail to see the deficiency here.

[1FSTRK]

IMHO Your current set up would benefit from a bigger TB and if you up the cam the tb will be even more of a hold up. Personally I would up the TB to the 54-55mm range as the first step and if the budget allows add a cam in the 244-246 duration range with IV closing of 41-44 degs. With your present CCP of 205 you should still have plenty down low with the ability to pull out the other end. I do not know how much lift your heads allow or how much flow they have at high lift but I personally like to keep lift at or below .600 on my bikes. All this said you could use most any cam that fits the above timing requirements. The TW8 with +4 gear, or the soon to be released TW888 , Tman TR590, DME TC575L, Red shift 575 to suggest a few,most of these will give you similar results and with available flow from the heads put your HP up where your TQ already is and 120/120 should be a great ride.

One other thing I noticed is your scaling on the dyno sheet gives the impression the TQ falls off hard because of the scaling used. Have them send you a sheet with Forced scaling active and it will look a lot better and will be visually comparable to most other posted sheets.

[TorQuePimp]

   Throttle body ?

   Head flow numbers @ 28" ?

[No Cents]

I ran Bobby's TW408-6's in a 103 stage IV build. I tried everything to get them quiet...but couldn't. They pulled hard...just had a little man with a hammer syndrome pecking away. I swapped them out by suggestion of TR Reiser to his Tman 625's. The valvetrain went stock quiet again and it made 120/122 on the dyno. The Tman 590/625's, or the Fueling Reaper 574's would be an excellent choice also.
I personally run the newer Fueling 594's in my 117"er (no dyno until after Xmas)...but I just got a pm from a guy who put the Reaper 594's in his SE 110" motor and the first base pull made 129/122...without a tune done yet! Needless to say the owner and tuner were very impressed with the 594's.

No Cents

[strokerjlk]

Looks like the pipe is choked up.
Try another exhaust .

[1FSTRK]

Looks like the pipe is choked up.
Try another exhaust .

Do you have experience with the fat cat and quiet baffle for the 2012 bikes being a hold up at 113 hp?

Found this post in the dyno section. The scaling is better on this one but with different heads and exhaust Jamie's kit makes almost the same numbers 113hp 123TQ
Would like to see them both on the same scale graph I think for the long list of differences they would be very close in curve shape, The common factor being TB.
http://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,56807.msg600866.html#msg600866

[Steve Cole]

i have a 2012 flhtk 107   10.5 cp pistons, RR stage 4 heads, DD 2-1 exhaust  TTS  woods 555 currently hp 113  tq 122
i would like to get my torque to stay in there longer

How do you ride the bike? While I understand what your asking for is a broader torque curve, step back and ask yourself the range you really run the engine in and see what fits your needs. What you have now isn't bad as it's well over 100 ft lbs clear to ~5800 RPM according to your chart. As was mentioned you may want to get another print out of the dyno chart with the scale matching on both sides and it will change the way it looks.

[Jamie Long]

I would ask to see a dyno chart with Gear Ratio X RPM on the X/Y axis to make sure the clutch is holding. The run posted also appears that it may have been made in 4th gear or lower which will spool the motor up quickly and the chart will not lay down as flat, the scaling also should be set to default/forced scaling. It would be nice to see a good 6th gear SAE corrected run with the scaling set correctly

[strokerjlk]

Do you have experience with the fat cat and quiet baffle for the 2012 bikes being a hold up at 113 hp?

I don't like any of the boss cat tunes I have done. They always fall short on hp.
I think Jamie is on the right track.

[RevFastEddy]

With a graph like that to get 5# more TQ for 500 more RPMs it will probably cost $500 to $1000.... and then your wallet will feel it a lot more than your butt will.  JMHO

[sfmichael]

Lots of good advice here. Must run pretty damn good. If you really feel the need to spend some cash I'd vote throttle body before cam but for real world riding this thing should be pretty good as is.

[BUBBIE]

Lots of good advice here. Must run pretty damn good. If you really feel the need to spend some cash I'd vote throttle body before cam but for real world riding this thing should be pretty good as is.

sfmichael,

Just got off the phone with Mark Dobeck per our PM's today (your and mine)... Mark Dobeck also shared a new product that he is building... A third injector system that puts fuel into the air box so you can run on the same old throttle bodies but have the added Fuel (20%) when needed in a BIG motor, YET keeping the mileage up using the original  HD injector equipment. Think it works with his Gen 4 AFR set up.

Ask him about this when you talk... I didn't know How big you are going but thinking your more like My 103 build, cams and compression boost on your 2010 King...

signed....BUBBIE

[TorQuePimp]

  Will it quit working in the middle of a long ride and burn up a engine like the old one did ?

[akjeff]

Lots of good advice here. Must run pretty damn good. If you really feel the need to spend some cash I'd vote throttle body before cam but for real world riding this thing should be pretty good as is.

sfmichael,

Just got off the phone with Mark Dobeck per our PM's today (your and mine)... Mark Dobeck also shared a new product that he is building... A third injector system that puts fuel into the air box so you can run on the same old throttle bodies but have the added Fuel (20%) when needed in a BIG motor, YET keeping the mileage up using the original  HD injector equipment. Think it works with his Gen 4 AFR set up.

Ask him about this when you talk... I didn't know How big you are going but thinking your more like My 103 build, cams and compression boost on your 2010 King...

signed....BUBBIE

That kinda sounds like a solution in search of a problem? Wouldn't simply adding bigger injectors accomplish the same thing, with less gadgetry? Still won't change the fact ,that larger motors need larger volumes of air to reach their potential. All you'll wind up with, is a big inch motor, that doesn't make the power it could.....but gets really good gas mileage! 

Jeff

[sfmichael]

Lots of good advice here. Must run pretty damn good. If you really feel the need to spend some cash I'd vote throttle body before cam but for real world riding this thing should be pretty good as is.

sfmichael,

Just got off the phone with Mark Dobeck per our PM's today (your and mine)... Mark Dobeck also shared a new product that he is building... A third injector system that puts fuel into the air box so you can run on the same old throttle bodies but have the added Fuel (20%) when needed in a BIG motor, YET keeping the mileage up using the original  HD injector equipment. Think it works with his Gen 4 AFR set up.

Ask him about this when you talk... I didn't know How big you are going but thinking your more like My 103 build, cams and compression boost on your 2010 King...

signed....BUBBIE

thanks Bubbie   

[Admiral Akbar]

Why do you need more fuel when you can't get any more air?   

Max

[Mopar]

I like Andrews cams. Another thing to consider also is a 30 tooth tranny gear same as Tri-Glide. With the six speed it works great,

[BUBBIE]

Why do you need more fuel when you can't get any more air?   

Max

I don't know Max.

I Posted the above Post intending it to be a PM to sfmichael...
You must know how it gets as we age... OR do you? .. Of course not... You are TimeLess

I'll ask Mark Dobeck on my next phone conversation with him... I'm not sure IF he wanted that out YET but There It Is...

He is a pretty sharp guy and has come up with a few useful things over the years.

As for IF a product he makes,,,,,,, "Will it quit working in the middle of a long ride and burn up a engine like the old one did ?" I think anything IS possible with ANY product.... I Once bought a new bike with a bad oil problem,,, "0" pressure at start-up on occasion.,,,,,Came from HD that way.... So,,,

signed....BUBBIE

[drhooligan]

It seems as if these 107s with good heads like a larger throttle body. I'm wonder if the stock injectors are good here or do you need to go to something like a 5.3 gm/sec unit?

[Ohio HD]

Injector size is more a requirement of HP than head or TB flow. If the motor can be tuned to MAX HP without over utilizing the injectors, no need to go larger.

4.3 injectors are good for around 110 HP +/- a few HP.

[Barrett]

I added 4.9's on my little 96" for the nitrous and it was a noticeable improvement in the midrange and upper R's.. It didn't hurt anything in the bottom either..

[HD/Wrench]

4.3 stock injector will go well into the 120 Plus HP range. My 09 had stock injectors and made 120/120 +  Now it may show that its being over driven when its on the dyno but it unless you loose control its still working. The issue is a old one on use of larger injectors. In a nutshell how long can you over drive one before it fails. You are talking milaseconds when tuning.  Before you could get larger units I ran my old 124 at 65 PSI fuel pressure and it made almost 150 Hp . Ran it for years without a issue.

With the stage 4 head and the pipe you have your numbers are not really off per say.   That cam is not huge by any means. Look at my old testing with the 107 the 113 mark was hard for me to get beyond with the smaller cams. Tq was in the 120 range but until I went to the  Crane 296 was frustrating.  That 296 will do what you want and it will still make great tq is not a loud cam noise wise.  I know you can find the odd sheet with a cam that shows huge power but I would say show me several sheets that all make big power.

I feel that  really you are well within a range of normal out put from that current set up.  Larger t/b is going to be needed if you want more HP. Really I would leave the build along myself. Great tq curve for everyday use

[Ohio HD]

Steve, my comments were not meant as an absolute, that's why I stated +/- HP in my comment. I realize there are variables that dictate when you need to increase injector size. Below is a sample of when I had my 107 on the dyno last year. I was hitting over 100% injector utilization in 5th gear at 6,300 RPM. I was also able to reproduce this on the street in 4th gear when running over 6,300 RPM, the motor would drop out from fuel loss, the rev limiter was set at 6,800 RPM. In 1st, 2nd and 3rd gears this didn't happen, only in the 4th and higher gears would the load at that RPM require the fuel demand. You can see the injector demand on the 2nd image at 6,100 RPM as 96.7%. I was able to repeat this all day if I wanted.

My motor was not making near 120 HP, but I was using all of the injector under the right conditions, I was at 106 HP SAE. I set the rev limiter to 6,000 RPM, solved my problem, as the motor was flat after 6,000 RPM anyway due to stock size valves and what the heads would flow.

6,300 RPM
[attach=0]

6,100 RPM
[attach=1]

[attachment removed after 60 days by system]

[HD/Wrench]

Not taking it that way , all good with the info you posted , Just that some want to read a post and think that it is written in stone. I just completed several 110 engines and made 121 HP on stock injectors.. SO other things come into play as we both know.


What size did you set injector to on that cam timing in the tune ? I have to wonder how the program works once you alter that and what is being show how "real"it really is. So if you set the size to say 3.9 does that Drive rate reduce? never bothered to try that to see how it would be effected.  If you loose control of the injector then yes you are done. 

Off topic some but I re-tuned that 124 without PV and was able to set CI to 126 (124 would have been fine I was not wanting to come up short in the mid range)  and leave the 6.2 as 6.2  ,....now with the PV I was at 147 CI and had the size down in the 3.9 range .( and almost out of room in the VE tables) . SO how do these figures really spec out?? All I did was swap tuners and results are no where near the same from one to the next   Not looking for an answer really , as it only turns into a he said she said,     But that is my observation.   Even still I

[Ohio HD]

I had left the injectors at 4.35 in the program, I didn't see the need to change it, and don't know enough about it to determine any changes to this.

[attach=0]  

[attachment removed after 60 days by system]

[timtoolman]

woods 400-6 is a major torq  cam or as Scott said the 408

[sfmichael]

woods 400-6 is a major torq  cam or as Scott said the 408

this thread's almost a year old...recently resurrected to discuss injector size   

never did hear back from OP (harleyp) as to what he decided to do, if anything...

[timtoolman]

oops  sorry  i didnt see how old it was

[Ohio HD]

woods 400-6 is a major torq  cam or as Scott said the 408

this thread's almost a year old...recently resurrected to discuss injector size   

Well, post something new and we'll talk about it....   

[sfmichael]

how bout them Broncos???

   

how's that new motor treatin' ya??   

    I'll put a beer since we don't have a guy slobberin' icon...bet that thing is fun 

[Ohio HD]

how bout them Broncos???

   

how's that new motor treatin' ya??   

    I'll put a beer since we don't have a guy slobberin' icon...bet that thing is fun

ohh I guess they're OK, I'm more a Chevy guy...     

Motor is running fine, have just over 5,000 miles on it since the first week of August. Not bad for a guy who works out of town, I do keep the roads hot.   

[harleyp]

sorry for slow response
put in t man 590 se 58 tb 5.3 injectors
gained 1 hp lost some tq
but I used a different tuner

[Hossamania]

How does it feel compared to your old set-up?

[harleyp]

it pulls better in the higher rpms
I don't have to worry about any knock like I had before
but there is still more left to get with some more changes