Should I try the VT-3010 or the VT-3020 first. I got both. Like some opinions

[gryphon]

I've got about 10 days of solid rain ahead of me so I figure now is a good time to wrench on the bike. I've been running an HQ-29 cam for the last month but don't really think it's the cam I want. Prior to that I ran a VT-3030 cam for about a year and was pretty happy with it's performance but it may be coming on just a little later than my riding style dictates. I've got a 3010 and a 3020 sitting here and was trying to decide which one to try first to see what , if any, difference I felt with the earlier closing intake. My bike is a cutom in a 4 speed frame and probably weighs about the same as a softail. I ride mostly solo and really like ripping it up on the river canyon roads where I live. I don't typicaly wind out in first through third all that much but do like to run up on fourth when I'm in the mood. Because of my gearing, even when I'm letting it wind up some I still will seldom exceed 4500 to 4700 RPM which is still between 90 and 95 mph in fourth. I was gonna drop in the 3020 but then I picked up the 3010 thinking that there was enough of a difference between it and the 3030 that I would be more able to feel any difference. Any thoughts here?

[harleytoprock]

I would go for the 3010. I have one in my bike and am very happy with it. Its very torquey starting about 2500 and pulls strong to about 4500-5000. Perfect for a 4 speed.The valve train is quiet like stock. For street riding, I think its the perfect cam. Its very well manered and it has a wide power band. If you were more into street racing and was into redlining then go with 3020.

[JohnS_Rosamond]

What you seem to be describing sounds like it would be the 3010 that you should try first.  It's a nice cam.

[14Frisco]

Whichever you decide on, let us know how you like it...
I am running a 3030 and it does come on a little late-ish, but not horribly so.  I don't mind downshifting.

[lasmittys1]

  What is it about the HQ 29 that you don't like? I've used all three cams and by far the HQ out performed  the others. To run the 20 you would need to raise the compression. It could be something with the tune in the bike? How big is the motor ,carb, exhaust?

[gryphon]

The motor is an S&S 97" with a modified Super E, dyna 2000I ignition, Supertrapp 2 into 1 exhaust, and 9.5:1 compression. I went to the HQ29 because I wanted something with an earlier intake closing and thinking that with a 97" displacement I should try something with a higher lift. The HQ cam performs okay and seems to get from 80mph to 100mph quicker than the 3030 cam did. But I didn't notice any real apprecable gains elsewhere and I went from a very quiet motor to a very noisy one. The HQ cam is unquestionably louder than the VT cam. I also lost a few MPG. I tried rejetting and changing the number of discs in the Supertrapp. The bike runs good and the plugs show a good burn. I didn't do a Dyno  My ecperience over the last two years has shown me that, at least for my style of riding, I don't seem to gain much with increased lift. I will be jumping the compression to about 10.2:1 here shortly and at that time may find that the 3010 closes a little bit early.

[ClassicRider2002]

"..........4 speed frame and probably weighs about the same as a softail. I ride mostly solo and really like ripping it up on the river canyon roads where I live. I don't typicaly wind out in first through third all that much but do like to run up on fourth when I'm in the mood. Because of my gearing, even when I'm letting it wind up some I still will seldom exceed 4500 to 4700 RPM which is still between 90 and 95 mph in fourth. I was gonna drop in the 3020 but then I picked up the 3010 thinking that there was enough of a difference between it and the 3030 that I would be more able to feel any difference. Any thoughts here?......"


Hi Gryhon~~~

Ok....a softail what....my point is what is the "wet" weight of your bike ie: with fluids" and what do you weight?

what's your final gearing ie: I have a 1999 FXR2 with final gearing of 2.925 which is tall gearing.....but with only 4 gears wow this must be interesting....so mention this as well....

Go to this website and tell us what your "corrected" compression is being figured as since you know your components....

SIMPLY, CLICK, VIEW, & READ:

BIG BOYS EVO COMPRESSION AND ENGINE DISPLACEMENT CALCULATOR

It always seems that it's better if we all understand the terms people are using, thus "operationally defining" how you use the term "10.2:1 compression" would be helpful as well....

I know NOTHING about an S&S engine other than the number you just communicated that it's a S&S 97" but it's important that you know as much about your engine as possible....all I know is that running one's bike between say 8.8:1 - 9.2:1 corrected compression (@ sea level)  is a safe range to run one's bike both with today's gas. Please note at higher elevations you run less "corrected compression" as well as cranking compression......the calculator above will or may offer some additional insight to you....and you are right the single most critical factor about a cam as to when it's going to turn on will be its intake close angle degrees.....it's not the "ONLY" factor but it's the most "Critical" factor....of course the other top two might be the duration and lift....yet there are appx 13 other characteristics of a cam which all dictate the performance of a cam....but I agree that looking at the intake close angle will help you to arrive at how soon it's going to turn on...

Next knowing how you are going to rev your engine and how that relates to your riding style is equally important.

My 1999 FXR2 with a OEM evo engine, 2-1 pro pipe, a/c, and the EVL-3010 which has a intake close angle of 39 degrees....comes on nicely with my 660 lb bike and my 170 lb body, while traversing my local mountain/canyon roads from 5,000 - 12,000 feet and I am not running the right corrected compression with this bike just yet....but am considering keeping my OEM pistons and then running a set of SE heads which are cc'd from the factory supposedly at 72cc's which will put me at 9.0:1 corrected compression when figured @ sea level which is right in the sweet spot not too much compression and not too little....

Anyway.....
the EVL 3010 has a intake close angle of 39
the EVL 3020 has a intake close angle of 40
the EVL 3000 has a intake close angle of 34

I would listen to John S. before listening to me.....he has the knowledge I only wish I had.........

From the information that you will provide and depending upon your riding enviornment which seems to possibly be at a higher elevation than sea level since you mention "Canyon" riding.......and that you don't seem prone to go over 4700 RPMS....if I were to take the energy of replacing say two or three cams to determine which was best....I would find it interesting too look at the EV 13 which has an intake close angle of 31, EVL 3000, and the EVL 3010.

It sounds like you are after "torque" so going all the way to the left of the band width will answer the question perhaps better than always wondering....

The answer is going to be found in part as to what your bike weights and what you weigh.....and your elevation since the higher the elevation the more power you loose.......

Another element to look at of course is your gearing.....you can always do some things there more easily of course in your primary area without having to change your belt if you change your rear wheel sprocket and transmission pulley.

But I will speak that the 3010 seems to work quite well for my bike.....because it's a lighter bike.....

Regards,

"Classic"

[gryphon]

Classic,
   I cannot even imagine how long it would have taken me to write a reply as long as yours. My bike is pretty light. According to the local truck scale I come in right around 600 pounds. I do have a 5 speed, not a 4. I actually live pretty close to sea level judging by the bay I'm looking at out my window. The canyon roads I ride around here are river canyons running to the sea. Each year my son and I will take a fairly long trip which will usually take us up and over some high passes. I tried that calculator and it showed pretty close to advertised on the static compression but I'm wondering how accurate it is with the info I punched in since it shows my cold cranking compressio as being 177 lbs. but I have measured it a few times and have consistantly run between 205lbs and 215lbs depending on which cam I had in the bike at the time. My final gear ratio is 3.07 (chain drive). I have played with the final ratio numerous times going everywhere from 2.88 up to 3.47 and have settled on this as optimum for the way I ride and my bike.

[ClassicRider2002]

".........I cannot even imagine how long it would have taken me to write a reply as long as yours......"

gryphon~~

Yeah....I took my 2nd grade cutting and pasting class real seriously.....and then in 10th grade my typing class was also taken pretty seriously....LOL....I am just a "cut", "paste" and "typing" engineer.....lol.....


"......My bike is pretty light. According to the local truck scale I come in right around 600 pounds....."

So what.......ok, ok, ok, ok, ok....so ok....~~~~~>feelin like Joe Pesci....ok.....OK........so what.....you weigh your bike on your scale at home but you have to go to a truck scale to weight yourself hmmmm 600lbs...eh....lol..........I am still waitin to "read" what your bike weighs........   Actually your bike cost a lot of money to make it out of carbon fiber.....eh? ? ? ? ? no wonder it's a custom....but she is "Sturdy"......

Glad I asked you about the weight of your bike not many softails that weigh in at 600 lbs....my FXR2 is one of the lightest bikes made by HD when it comes to evos or twin cams....and it comes in at over 660 lbs wet.

Oh and if you see the "Sea" your at "SEA" LEEEEVVVEEELLLLL.

Ok back to being serious.....

Ok so your bike is at 600 lbs wet....with fluids you're at Sea Level, and you're running 3.07 final gearing....which is darn close to the 2.925 I am running on a bike that is 60 lbs heavier.....

You are doing the R&D I am interested in reading your results.....after you do what you do......so what is officially your "Corrected Compression"?  and what are you going to take it to?  you mention 9.5:1 and taking it to 10.2:1 I am not sure if you are talking "static" or "corrected" compression?  and how does S&S differ with what they say to run their 97" compared to a oem evo or a oem twin cam?

Man that's a tough one......because of your statement here, ".....really like ripping it up on the river canyon roads where I live......" sounds like you want it all, torque and power everywhere......and it's impossible to get unless one goes to a even bigger motor......yet your not rapping it up past 4700 rpms........based upon your descriptions.....it sounds like you are definitely into some R&D here to check them out.....but from what I read you apparently enjoy the part of the R&D as well with your bike....

I only have the experience riding up my canyons.....where I don't see the sea I see a lot of browns and greens.....and in my canyons "ripping' up the canyon means typically not over 60 mph in the fun "twisties"......and yes there are parts of any ride which are faster than 60 mph.....so getting the gearing down low is where I find it more 'fun".....I could care less about going 90 -95 mph.......unless I am passing on a two lane road where I need the speed....but then it's right back down........lol......so for me personally I would stay away from the 3030 for sure it would come on way too late for my riding style.....but would/may serve someone else beautifully.....I am more apt to want to try the 3000 and I might add that R&D would be against John S's.... recommendation as well....which I respect....but sometimes lol R&D is just what it is.....both fun and interesting.....one thing I know for sure I won't be increasing piston size on my OEM EVO but doing the SE Heads with the 72cc's and a lower intake close angle cam seems quite plausable and a bump in the direction I am curious about entertaining......after changing springs (lighter weight) and seals (since some have had problems with the OEM SE valve seals) and having them CC'd to make sure they are specifically @ 72 cc's....

Sooooooo lol....drum roll.....do the R&D first with the EVL 3010 and then with the EVL 3000.....I KNOW the EVL 3000 I will get shot down for that suggestion......but do it FOOOOOOOOORRRRR ME....lol

Regards,

"Classic"

[Buddy WMC]

"

one thing I know for sure I won't be increasing piston size on my OEM EVO but doing the SE Heads with the 72cc's and a lower intake close angle cam seems quite plausable and a bump in the direction I am curious about entertaining......after changing springs (lighter weight) and seals (since some have had problems with the OEM SE valve seals) and having them CC'd to make sure they are specifically @ 72 cc's....

Sooooooo lol....drum roll.....do the R&D first with the EVL 3010 and then with the EVL 3000.....I KNOW the EVL 3000 I will get shot down for that suggestion......but do it FOOOOOOOOORRRRR ME....lol

Regards,

"Classic"

Tim,
I like the above idea  !
BTW, I did respond to your questions about the SE heads that other thread when you asked. IMO you can't beat the V-Thunder B-Hive springs, steel retainers and Cometic Viton seals. Larry installed them for me when he did the heads, it was about $100.00 extra and will solve the known SE seal popping off problem.

[lasmittys1]

 First I think you need to set the timing,2000 RPM's, then run a pretty aggressive advance. After that tell us the size of the inter jet and how many turns the accl pump is out.