Hayden oil fix / "pigtails"

[tinkerman]

Getting close to putting my evo back together when I get back in the shop. Am considering using the Hayden oil fix or the "pig tails" to minimise the base gasket oil weep.

Can you give me some sources for these two fixes. Not having a lot of luck online tracking down distributors.

Tinkerman

[dave_9113]

Your local unauthorized harley dealer could easily hook you up, but here's one online place that sells them.  Don't know if there is a wait.  Hopefully the link below gets you there. 

http://www.parts123.com/parts123/yb.dll?parta~dyndetail~Z5Z5Z50000135a~Z5Z5Z5AKANE~P31.95~~~~S2L71E109G41644220121f~Z5Z5Z5~Z5Z5Z50000123a

dave

[tinkerman]

Thanks dave,

Had checked J&P but not Jireh.

Still have not found a supplier for the pigtails but apparently one is as good as the other. I like the idea of threading the insert/jet into either the cyl or the cases which is the case with the pigtails.

Tinkerman

[harleytoprock]

I haven't used either of the oil fixes but I don't see how they hayden fix will help any. I understand the theory that the return oil is directed below the gasket level. However, since the Hayden jets just slip into the bottom of the cylinder, I would think oil will leak pass the outside of the jet and again just sit on the base gaskets. The type that threads into the cylinder with some sealer on threads would work better. However, I think the real problems is that the aluminum evo cylinders are warped on the bottom. Just lap the cylinders with the Trock lapper tool and use a quality Jim's base gasket and you' be good to go.

[Buddy WMC]

Tink,
My local Indy stocks the Hayden kit. They are availaible from most of the larger suppliers or directly from Hayden. I have had no problem after I installed mine with the James base gaskets.

[fxr4mikey]

Tink,
My local Indy stocks the Hayden kit. They are availaible from most of the larger suppliers or directly from Hayden. I have had no problem after I installed mine with the James base gaskets.

just wondering ..... if you installed the pig tails, AND, the James Base Gaskets, AT THE SAME TIME, how do you know which one of them was the cure to an oil leak ?

[tinkerman]

Thanks Fellows,

The shop doing my heads and cylinders are going to check my cyl. base to ensure thay are flat. If I was somewhere handy to a set of pig tails I think I might just pick up a set or have a look at them anyway. If not then I just might  go with the James metal base gaskets....still not decided wether to use them dry or with a hylomar or similar product.

Have heard some very respected opinions that say the hylomar is the cats meow and other folk with lots of shop experience say that the gasket dressing sticks the gasket to the cylinders and with the cylinder movement during heat/cool cycles the gasket seal gets weakened......so many decisions to make with such a tiny mind.....LOL...when I get my hands into it I will go one route or the other. Not getting enough concensus to make one ahead of time.

Either way, which ever way I go, if it doesn't work I will know for the next time.

In the meanwhile all this discussion is good stuff to take into account when the time comes to go one route or another.

Thanks again,

Tinkerman

[Buddy WMC]

Tink,
My local Indy stocks the Hayden kit. They are availaible from most of the larger suppliers or directly from Hayden. I have had no problem after I installed mine with the James base gaskets.

just wondering ..... if you installed the pig tails, AND, the James Base Gaskets, AT THE SAME TIME, how do you know which one of them was the cure to an oil leak ?

Mikey,
My factory base gaskets were not leaking after 19K when I installed a big bore cylinder kit. The Hayden jets and James base gaskets were installed dry along with the new cylinders and pistons. For the few extra $$$, just added insurance to eliminate any future problems down the road.

[dave_9113]

Thanks Fellows,

The shop doing my heads and cylinders are going to check my cyl. base to ensure thay are flat. If I was somewhere handy to a set of pig tails I think I might just pick up a set or have a look at them anyway. If not then I just might  go with the James metal base gaskets....still not decided wether to use them dry or with a hylomar or similar product.

Have heard some very respected opinions that say the hylomar is the cats meow and other folk with lots of shop experience say that the gasket dressing sticks the gasket to the cylinders and with the cylinder movement during heat/cool cycles the gasket seal gets weakened......so many decisions to make with such a tiny mind.....LOL...when I get my hands into it I will go one route or the other. Not getting enough concensus to make one ahead of time.

Either way, which ever way I go, if it doesn't work I will know for the next time.

In the meanwhile all this discussion is good stuff to take into account when the time comes to go one route or another.

Thanks again,

Tinkerman

I can only speak of my experience, but if your cylinders and case surfaces are straight, you are already ahead of the game.  I simply used James gasket (comes w/orange bead) dry and did not use the Hayden oil fix.  If you were to use James gasket, hylomar, and the Hayden oil fix, you will have 99.999% sucess.  It will actually be overkill in my opinion.  New studs, head bolts and correct torque procedures when putting her together will ensure your leak is cured.  It will be 200% better than what you had originally.

dave

[tinkerman]

Hey Dave,

Sounds good to me. I have the new studs and the same James rubber covered metal gasket with the silicone bead on both sides. I have heard suggested before that the cylinder head cap screws should be replaced as well. Can you lend me some insight on the benefit of changing them out? I replaced the studs because of the design change. Figured I would just clean up the cap screws, lubricate them and torque them down.

I still have a week or so before I get back east in the shop so still have time to shuffle a few more parts around if someone convinces me that it is worth while. For example I have a new breather gear on the bench (original plastic Harley part) that I ordered simply because I figured 21 years plus a few high heat episodes might of made the old one a little brittle. But I am still trying to decide if I should go ahead and get a S&S reed valve.

This old heritage of mine is a bit of a billet barge but I do use it from time to time for some cross country stuff but don't have a need for huge amounts of power. (if I have a fistful of useful power when I am @ 75 mph/135kph then I am OK) Right now I am running a EV27 cam, S&S Super E, Dyna single fire and stock pipes with the baffled opened up just a little. If the reed valve doesn't provide any extra reliability or reduce the oil mist that comes from my cases when I am at higher rpm's then I problebly don't need it. I figure as well that a rotating cylinder might have a little more moxy in the long run than peices of metal flexing back and forth. Don't get me wrong now, that reed valve might be the best thing in the world....I am not a Harley guy so much as a biking guy and just coming up to speed on the Harley evo engine. What's your feeling on the reed valve vs original timing gear. I know fxr4mikey thinks they are worth the investment...$33 last time I checked..

Tinkerman

[psyco369]

I got the pigtails from preston cycle part #30123

[tinkerman]

Thanks Psyco,

I'll look them up.

Tinkerman

[dave_9113]

Hey Dave,

Sounds good to me. I have the new studs and the same James rubber covered metal gasket with the silicone bead on both sides. I have heard suggested before that the cylinder head cap screws should be replaced as well. Can you lend me some insight on the benefit of changing them out? I replaced the studs because of the design change. Figured I would just clean up the cap screws, lubricate them and torque them down.

I still have a week or so before I get back east in the shop so still have time to shuffle a few more parts around if someone convinces me that it is worth while. For example I have a new breather gear on the bench (original plastic Harley part) that I ordered simply because I figured 21 years plus a few high heat episodes might of made the old one a little brittle. But I am still trying to decide if I should go ahead and get a S&S reed valve.

This old heritage of mine is a bit of a billet barge but I do use it from time to time for some cross country stuff but don't have a need for huge amounts of power. (if I have a fistful of useful power when I am @ 75 mph/135kph then I am OK) Right now I am running a EV27 cam, S&S Super E, Dyna single fire and stock pipes with the baffled opened up just a little. If the reed valve doesn't provide any extra reliability or reduce the oil mist that comes from my cases when I am at higher rpm's then I problebly don't need it. I figure as well that a rotating cylinder might have a little more moxy in the long run than peices of metal flexing back and forth. Don't get me wrong now, that reed valve might be the best thing in the world....I am not a Harley guy so much as a biking guy and just coming up to speed on the Harley evo engine. What's your feeling on the reed valve vs original timing gear. I know fxr4mikey thinks they are worth the investment...$33 last time I checked..

Tinkerman

1)  I think you are good to go with the new studs and James gasket.  They do stretch when torqued, but if you have a relatively stock set up, it should be OK.  If your bike was hopped up, etc... I would get new ones to be safe.  Your call.

2) I would invest in the S&S reed valve, if you are in the cam chest.  That's money well spent.

dave 

[psyco369]

2) I would invest in the S&S reed valve, if you are in the cam chest.  That's money well spent.

dave 

+1

[gaillarry]

Where can I find the S&S reed valve for $33 ??

[tinkerman]

My typo there,

The price I had in my notes was 133.00 C$  Taxes in.

Still, 133 or 33 if it would offer any disernible advantage I would put it in there....just haven't been convinced yet, at least for my application.

Tinkerman

[fxr4mikey]

Tink,
My local Indy stocks the Hayden kit. They are availaible from most of the larger suppliers or directly from Hayden. I have had no problem after I installed mine with the James base gaskets.

just wondering ..... if you installed the pig tails, AND, the James Base Gaskets, AT THE SAME TIME, how do you know which one of them was the cure to an oil leak ?

Mikey,
My factory base gaskets were not leaking after 19K when I installed a big bore cylinder kit. The Hayden jets and James base gaskets were installed dry along with the new cylinders and pistons. For the few extra $$$, just added insurance to eliminate any future problems down the road.

ahhhhm, ok, gotcya, Thanks !

[Buddy WMC]

Guys,
IMO, the S&S reed valve is an improvement over the stock design. Before I modified my 93 engine there was a fair amount of blowby out of the S&S air cleaner that would mist back to the rear exhaust. After the engine was hot rodded up and the stock breather gear replaced with the S&S reed valve, there is none and I mean none. I even installed a Drag Specialties crossover between the heads and air filter backing plate with a vent line and filter to the ground. After 800 miles, that filter is still like new clean. It seems to perform as advertised.

[tinkerman]

Thanks Buddy,

That's good first hand experience. I have my crankcase vented to a filter just behind my oil pump so it mists a bit of oil back on the tranny and pipes as well, but very little and only if I am cranking on it. Still, in my view it is something that shouldn't happen. I have always wondered about how to clear it up, thinking that maybe it would clear up when I reringed the topend (thinking it might be blowby). Now I have some more thinking to do.

Thanks,

Tinkerman

[psyco369]

I thought the same but after rebuild the mist was still there...installed the S&S and it is gone 

[tinkerman]

Thanks Psyco,

Looks like I will have to order a reed valve. Haven't heard anything bad about them.

Man oh man, I won't be able to complain about the missus going south this spring.....this top end freshening up is going over budget.

Which brings me to a new topic


tinkerman

[fxr4mikey]

~~

.....this top end freshening up is going over budget.

~~


tinkerman

I was checking out another forum where I post up ...... I posted up there about 16 months ago .....
what basic mods will give me more torque and and a bump in my levis .... I'm tight and do not what to spend $2K dollars to do this .....

well, I got a LOT of replies !!!  Some that were 'basic' and stayed under the limit ,,,,,,, many that were "WAY" over the limit ....

I haven't added it all up YET, but I know that I've spent over $2500.00 in PARTS, and I'm doing the labor myself ......

just some hints

heads - 680 + shipping
cam - 140 (or something like that, I forget exactly without looking it up, and I aint doing that tonight!)
cam bearing
gaskets ... seems like I'm in at close to 150 - 200 on this item
cylinder/pistons honed and bead blasted 200
swap cam gears 40
new cylinder studs 58
new lifter blocks 130 + shipping
new carb - mmmmmmmm 400   
new A'C and breather/mounting bracket 250
new lifters 140
new push rods, ez install, adjustable, tapper lite .... 150
new motorcycle jack 100
misc tools - that I didn't have, and only neede/wanted just because I was doing this build ..... 100
new rings 50
seems that it's often 30 here and 50 there that you just never really realized that you had to have it, or buy it, cause you needed it for this build
S&S breather valve - 90

and so the list goes .......

It's FUN ..... Jan is getting just a bit 'tired' of seeing the bills .... but I got all the parts now, SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOo
now it's just finish up the build and RIDE RIDE RIDE !!!!!!!!


YEAH,  Tink ..... I'm OVER BUDGET TOO !!!!!!!!!!!

[tinkerman]

Ah well Mikey,

At least the end is in sight,

Tink