Topend Cost / Moaning & Groaning

[tinkerman]

Just want to moan and groan about the cost of rebuilding the top end of my evo. When I compare it to rebuilding the topend for other bikes (Brit and Jap) that I have worked on in the past it seems a little high. Now I budgeted $1000 Canadian in the back of my mind just to have a number to work with and not having worked on a Harley machine before. Up to this point and time I figured a topend (just a refresh, not hopping it up) on a two cylinder machine would be worth $500 including a set of valve gudes installed at a machine shop and valves reseated. Somehow I figured I would need to throw a $1000 at the Evo...not sure why.(Maybe because it's been a couple of years since I last did an engine)

So my costs so far have been....

HD Dealer.....Lifters, new cyl studs, breather gear, gaskets (tappet block, cam chest, oil pump, exhaust seals etc), Misc.   $380
J & P Cycles....... James Gaskets (Base, Head, Rocker Box, Pushrod seals), Rings, Reed Valve, Misc.  $310
Georges Garage.. Cam Bearing Puller, Tappet Block Alignment Screws  $120
Machine Shop... Cylinders Honed and Bases machined flat, Heads-new valve guides, seals and seats machined. $250

So that puts me just over a $1000 Canadian if I return the unused breather gear to Harley.

How does this stack up to you fellows that are doing topends right now? If you are doing it cheaper fill me in on a few secrets cause it seems a little steep to me.

One secret I have is that if your going to take your cases apart anyway to clean them out :embarrassed:you could save $80 on the cam bearing puller. I suppose to it is not fair to include the special tool costs as part of the engine rebuild....they can be used for a 100 engines which makes their cost minimal. For you lucky fellows that don't feel cost is an issue, don't be giving me any smart a$$ remarks....I am your typical Joe Six Pack, working for a living, still educating the kids, trying to salt away a bit for retirement in an economy that could turf me out on my a$$ by the middle of the year (no tears either please) ....cost is always a factor for me.

Interested in hearing different ideas here, could be an informative thread.

Tink

[96dynabagger]

One thing I've found to save money every time, is to not buy anything at the dealer that is
available from an independent shop or the internet.  They are almost always the highest price
for the same part.  Just like car dealers.   

[sandrooney]

Stay away from J&P they are usually higher than HD.

[hbkeith]

wandering ,dont know how bad your motor was,did it need oil pump,tappet blocks,etc?lifters from harley were probally 2 times too much money,ive done 3 evo motors ,havent needed much.last one had 80000 on it- rings,recut heads,gasket set,cam & lifters,paint-$480. as far as cylinder studs,ive never changed them,harley nitro engine builder told me ,sure ,on his nitro bikes he changes them,but on a typical motor the factory dosent even call for them to be changed,unless loose or bent or ? hope im not comming of as smart ass,not meaning too

[rdkng]

Good thoughts Tinkerman.  I think its hard to compare prices and all since
tools and parts can vary so much between needing to replace vs 'may as
well'.  Costs can add up quick as the project grows.  I dont play golf, so
I can justify some of my projects as a hobby.     
I did a full top end job when I went to new SE heads at 64K miles.
Basically, all the stuff I could measure, were about one half in the specs,
so I could have gone many more miles before stuff was needed.

fyi.. one way I save $$ is using the HD Visa with the 1% chrome cash
rebate.  I use the visa for almost everything, then I plan my winter projects. and offset
the cost of HD dealership stuff with the chrome cash coupons.
(I've saved thousands of dollars this way)
rdkng   

       

[tinkerman]

HB-nope nothing smart ass there. I changed the studs to go to the later design and didn't install new tappet blocks or oil pump...just the gaskets. I guess subtracting the cost of special tools and not replacing the studs and going with aftermarket lifters I might have trimmed my cost by just less than 300 bucks and then if I went without the reed valve or for that matter if I just used the old breather valve (replacing because of age...21 years) I would be down another 100 bucks so that would get me in the $600 range. So thats pretty reasonable...I guess that although I try to be pretty practical I want to optimise the rebuild...maybe getting caught up in things a little bit. I thought the studs were a good investment as they may be part of the standard base leak prob. A couple of fellows have mentioned that the Reed valve went a long way to reducing the oil in their crank case ventilation. So maybe I need to accept that an original rebuild on a 20 year old machine would be about 600 bucks but a few potential improvements are gonna cost me more.

Sandrooney-I hear ya on J&P...been snooping around for another source of parts but I live up in the boonies in Canada and haven't got a lot of options. I have followed up a few leads that some guys have mentioned but really haven't found a good source with a wide variety of parts so try and use a blend of dealer parts and aftermarket from J&P. I know I am paying through the nose. Definite buisness opportunity for someone in Canada I am thinking.

Bagger- I hear you as well....shopped around quite a bit and only bought those things that were 1) suggested to be as good as aftermarket (like the B lifters) and 2) were competitive in pricing (like the studs and some gaskets)

Ah Hah, rdking-that is the phrase for it..."may as well" I like that one. I used it quite a bit during this little project..as in, "ah well, I have got it apart, I may as well do this or do that..." And I don't golf either...so now you have almost got my moaning session taken care of.

I guess the managers are going to have to get a penny pinching icon so I can use it with my posts.

Oh well, I am almost sure I will stop moaning completely when I get her out to the edge of town and get the wind in my face.

Thanks for the feedback,

Tinkerman

[dave_9113]

"-HD Dealer.....Lifters, new cyl studs, breather gear, gaskets (tappet block, cam chest, oil pump, exhaust seals etc), Misc.   $380
-J & P Cycles....... James Gaskets (Base, Head, Rocker Box, Pushrod seals), Rings, Reed Valve, Misc.  $310
-Georges Garage.. Cam Bearing Puller, Tappet Block Alignment Screws  $120
-Machine Shop... Cylinders Honed and Bases machined flat, Heads-new valve guides, seals and seats machined. $250"

-Knowing that it's done right because you put it back together.  Priceless

I'm with you.  There's no money tree here.  I think you are about right and really smart for doing most of the work yourself.  You are saving big $$ by your labor and getting the best parts. 

Now think of it the other way.  You walk into a dealer, drop $1000 and not really knowing if they took the time to do it right.


dave

[gaillarry]

I'm well over your cost on my top end rebuild, so far $1400 (cdn), but includes new pistons, rings, valves, springs, adj pushrods, S&S breather, lifters, EV27 cam, CV Carb, bearings, gaskets.  The indy charged me $850 for the jugs and heads the rest I spent on misc parts.  Found Ebay to be the best place to shop, saving me a lot of money even with the US $ exchange rate.    Its taken me 3 months to source the parts on EBay but it takes patience and bidding at the last minute.

Once I have it all back together it'll be worth it!!

[tinkerman]

Right on Dave. Appreciate the sentiments. I love wrenching on the beasts so wouldn't have had somebody else do it. I was just in a moaning/groaning mood this morning. The whole economic clusterf*#k is catching up to me. As well, there is something to be said for controling/questioning the costs....really part of the job...sourcing cost effective parts.

Hey gailarry, appreciate the heads up on sourcing that reed valve. Like I mentioned....got the price down to $100 canadian +taxes. I'll bring back the OE plastic one I got from HD. Good job on your prices there...pays to shop.

Tinkerman

[paulkay]

Want some real fun throw the bottom end in there also. Original motor setting ready to go back in new crank, new pistons and bore, rework bumbles valve job and I assembled from there with parts from take apart(timesavers, ev27, S&S breather, S&S lifters, S&S Super E/thunderjet). Rock and roll, fresh motor scooter should roll hopefully on and on. Someplace over $1250, cheaper than new and without payments.

[flhs90]

Tinker:
I used to be a schoolteacher. Is that what you mean by being Joe 6pk or we talking about being a father to your personal kids and educating your children, teens, etc.?

Your rebuild thread is a pioneer for mine. Your honesty is appreciated. I'm running a 90 EVO and going to just ride it.
Has had a leakdown and a compression test. Guy before me pd. good money to put it on the dyno. I still have the receipt.
Doing your own work is the only way.

Keep up the good work, educating and wrenching. Ride it like ya stole it.

Dave

[tinkerman]

Hey Dave,

1st off I have to tell you that the reference to educating the kids was related to the whole moaning/groaning economic woe is me...ie. I have just finished putting the oldest fellow through university and the second one is in her third year. The only educating I have done is what comes with the whole parenting thing...(I have likely learned more than I have taught in that role) With that said I have a load of respect for the educators that our kids came in contact with over the years. A couple in particular had very lasting and positive impacts on our kids. OK that's enough throwing bouquets.

As for my concerns about my perceived cost overruns on my evo topend, as usual just sitting down and writing the original post helped put it in perspective and then of course a little feedback from some of our fellow riders/wrenches here sealed the deal. I am problebly not doing to badly cost wise....those special tools are a pain in the a$$....I am old enough to remember working on cars and bikes when a special tool meant you had to grind down one of your wrenches....now you need a box of special tools for each bike you have of recent vintage.

Ah well....looking forward to posting something here when I get the rebuild finished up. I am back home in a week or so...just spoke with the machine shop and they are shipping my parts back to me on Tueday next and I made my last purchase yesterday. One of the folk here put me on to a good price on the S&S reed valve so that is en route....gonna bring the plastic breather gear back to my HD dealer.

Appreciate your comments and hope you enjoy that evo of yours,

Ride safe,

Tink