Thoughts on the electric throttle and ECUs

[-SeabrookTrickBagger]

I suspect that Fuel Injected aftermarket ECU manufacturers will choose to not make replacement ECUs but instead use "piggy back" add-ons for the stock HD ECU for bikes with a throttle body lacking an IAC and which controls idle solely with the throttle plate position via an electric motor.  The reason, I suspect, will be liability issues.

The history of this seems to be the Audi car example.  It was reported several years ago that Audi had problems with sudden and unintended acceleration issues.  It seems that the Audi FI throttle body set the idle with an electric motor on the throttle plate and not an IAC motor.  The sudden and unintended acceleration, it was reported, was due to the electric motor which controlled the throttle plate experiencing a glitch and caused the throttle plate to open to 100% position and caused more than one crash, including one by a vice president of Audi.

Is any aftermarket manufacturer making any replacement ECUs for throttle by wire HDs?  Just wondering........ .

[sportygordy]

Thundermax has already came to the plate with EFI system for the new Throttle by Wire Harley's, 2008-2009 models. And I've heard rumor that DTT is working on their version for the new TBW models. Personally, i would like to see MasterTune expand their system to work with wide band sensors.

[FLTRI]

"....i would like to see MasterTune expand their system to work with wide band sensors"I'm sure Steve Cole (TTS) would do that in a heartbeat if there was any good reason to do so. I mean if the EFI is tuned for best performance in open loop with v-tune or a dyno, the ECM is smart enough to keep it that way with the sensors on board. No need to add reliability issues and mess with warranty with such a rock solid system.

[-SeabrookTrickBagger]

Thundermax has already came to the plate with EFI system for the new Throttle by Wire Harley's, 2008-2009 models. And I've heard rumor that DTT is working on their version for the new TBW models. Personally, i would like to see MasterTune expand their system to work with wide band sensors.

DTT is working on a piggy back version but will not market a replacement ECU for electric throttle bikes.

[sportygordy]

"....i would like to see MasterTune expand their system to work with wide band sensors"I'm sure Steve Cole (TTS) would do that in a heartbeat if there was any good reason to do so. I mean if the EFI is tuned for best performance in open loop with v-tune or a dyno, the ECM is smart enough to keep it that way with the sensors on board. No need to add reliability issues and mess with warranty with such a rock solid system.

I wont argue your point on a good tune in open loop but being a tinker I would enjoy an option to auto tune my AFR's below 14.1 in a closed loop world. I think i voided my warranty when i stuck a Jims 131 in. 

[Steve Cole]

If we were to do it what would one be willing to spend? To do it right you cannot use the cheap sensors that most all are trying to use without adding EGT as an input to the system to ignore when the said sensor is out of range. Then to top that off all one can say is that at best you would be +/- .5 AFR and that the sensor would not last for more than 60 - 100 hours. If people would be willing to live with those specifications and KNOW up front that is as good as it gets then we might look into in the future. I'm just not so sure there would be many takers.

[sportygordy]

If we were to do it what would one be willing to spend? To do it right you cannot use the cheap sensors that most all are trying to use without adding EGT as an input to the system to ignore when the said sensor is out of range. Then to top that off all one can say is that at best you would be +/- .5 AFR and that the sensor would not last for more than 60 - 100 hours. If people would be willing to live with those specifications and KNOW up front that is as good as it gets then we might look into in the future. I'm just not so sure there would be many takers.

Steve, I can appreciate the thought of staying away from cheap sensors. My experience with the pricey Bosch wide band sensors are not worth bragging about, but for some of us, (and apparently a very view of us) we are willing to replace them every 100 hours or so. I believe the senors you speak of are in several hundred dollar range, which would place them out of anyones range for practical use in our Harley's. You know this better then I, but it is my understanding that Harley's ECM is capable of adjusting voltage for stable wide band sensor use and software driving the sensors and the ECM is the the 'missing link'. My suggestion of TTS exploring these waters is just my thought of knowing you are experts in the ignition world and if it seemed practical to expand on Harley's ECM then 'go for it'. However, I know it is easy for us to spend your R&D money but if my suggestion sparks enthusiasm then you may become interested knowing that your R&D money will actually make money. I know i am proably mercifully begging you do to it, but hey we've got to start somewhere,, right.. 

[Steve Cole]

The true wide band sensors run about $950 retail price and they can be had for about $750 if you search around and then you need 2 of them. I am sure that none of the average HD riders are going to be willing to spend that plus all the electronics it takes to get something together. We looked at it long ago and found the issues and prices an said thanks but no thanks. This was done first then we spent the R&D on V-tune product to get it all working. Yes, it doesn't do it all but nor does the anything else.

[-SeabrookTrickBagger]

Speaking of the Daytona Twin Tech TCFI, I see that Daytona Twin Tech acquired EOs on most of its products including the TCFI III which reaffirms the "off road" use requirement. An EO from CARB should satisfy the EPA, too.  I wonder if an EO will be required for its projected 2009 piggy back unit?