How to use a SE pro Super Tuner for IDIOTS

[BUBBIE]

While you guys are here??

Can I keep a light charger (2amp) working on the battery While I use the Tuning devices/program in computer?

I'm just learning so I really don't want to damage anything.

My battery is new and up BUT I'm slow and need the time with key on to learn.

Thanks for the answer...

signed....BUBBIE

[Coyote]

Keeping a charger on the battery won't hurt anything.

[BUBBIE]

How can I get a  READY program for my 09 King using 103" 10.15 compression. SE air, V&H slip-on exhaust and SE255/ Don D. head shinn grooved (pretty much stock)  (generic program) to install to re work the bad tune put into my bike dyno'd by Tucson HD. Looking at the files and I see nothing from HD using the SE255 cams I have.  The littlest. 204 with less compression and then larger cams using 10.5...? ARE in the file to use...

I've got a lot to Learn here. GREEN at it but I'll try...

Any answers will do IF you guys would

Thanks..

signed....BUBBIE

[1Canuck]

How can I get a  READY program for my 09 King using 103" 10.15 compression. SE air, V&H slip-on exhaust and SE255/ Don D. head shinn grooved (pretty much stock)  (generic program) to install to re work the bad tune put into my bike dyno'd by Tucson HD. Looking at the files and I see nothing from HD using the SE255 cams I have.  The littlest. 204 with less compression and then larger cams using 10.5...? ARE in the file to use...

I've got a lot to Learn here. GREEN at it but I'll try...

Any answers will do IF you guys would

Thanks..

signed....BUBBIE

2009 touring 205UH005 stage 2 w/255 cam
yes the canned maps are limited to the combo you have. at least these maps start with a tune for the cam you have.. do the data runs and fine tune.    

[strokerjlk]

How can I get a  READY program for my 09 King using 103" 10.15 compression. SE air, V&H slip-on exhaust and SE255/ Don D. head shinn grooved (pretty much stock)  (generic program) to install to re work the bad tune put into my bike dyno'd by Tucson HD. Looking at the files and I see nothing from HD using the SE255 cams I have.  The littlest. 204 with less compression and then larger cams using 10.5...? ARE in the file to use...

I've got a lot to Learn here. GREEN at it but I'll try...

Any answers will do IF you guys would

Thanks..

signed....BUBBIE

2009 touring 205UH005 stage 2 w/255 cam
yes the canned maps are limited to the combo you have. at least these maps start with a tune for the cam you have.. do the data runs and fine tune.    

got your pm BUBBIE. sorry didnt see this
again I agree with 1 Canuck

[BUBBIE]

 

Found a livable Tune to install. Actually for my bike and mods...

Se 255 cams using SE air, exhaust,  with a bit more compression.

009SAH002

seems to get me back from 29 (freeway HOT wind pushing) and 39 normal conditions MPG ... Way RICH settings installed by Tucson HD on their Dyno...

Now with above program I installed:  Getting a respectable 43/44 MPG and no ping...

Their Dyno'd set-up Tune had a problem with MY hand accelerator and would almost Die when lightly turned... Saying I needed a New intake manifold with the motor....     Sure funny with this tune installed all that seemed to be resolved... No problem with the accelerator now

Now maybe smart tuning needed and it will be good enough

signed....BUBBIE

[strokerjlk]

Found a livable Tune to install. Actually for my bike and mods...

Se 255 cams using SE air, exhaust,  with a bit more compression.

009SAH002

seems to get me back from 29 (freeway HOT wind pushing) and 39 normal conditions MPG ... Way RICH settings installed by Tucson HD on their Dyno...

Now with above program I installed:  Getting a respectable 43/44 MPG and no ping...

Their Dyno'd set-up Tune had a problem with MY hand accelerator and would almost Die when lightly turned... Saying I needed a New intake manifold with the motor....     Sure funny with this tune installed all that seemed to be resolved... No problem with the accelerator now

Now maybe smart tuning needed and it will be good enough

signed....BUBBIE

that's a decent cal.
did you alter it any yet?

[1Canuck]

Found a livable Tune to install. Actually for my bike and mods...

Se 255 cams using SE air, exhaust,  with a bit more compression.

009SAH002

seems to get me back from 29 (freeway HOT wind pushing) and 39 normal conditions MPG ... Way RICH settings installed by Tucson HD on their Dyno...

Now with above program I installed:  Getting a respectable 43/44 MPG and no ping...

Their Dyno'd set-up Tune had a problem with MY hand accelerator and would almost Die when lightly turned... Saying I needed a New intake manifold with the motor....     Sure funny with this tune installed all that seemed to be resolved... No problem with the accelerator now

Now maybe smart tuning needed and it will be good enough

signed....BUBBIE

that's a decent cal.
did you alter it any yet?

yes and it opens up a whole new topic of discussion. both list same parts except different AC. why have cal files listed for 2009 touring and have 2010-2013 files that also work with the same 2009 ECM, one lambda based versus other closed loop bias. why is the spark timing pulled up to 4*, the VE richer in one, plus a few other. Both tuning are similar, one with EITMS on, other off
In the end tuning may bring both the same or close. After 3 years running the 009 map I decided to install the 044 (wondering why there were two choices). The 044 pulls stronger even though the visible maps AFR & VE are close after tuning. Only guess is the hidden maps we here of that must be in play.

[BUBBIE]

IF I MONKEY with it I Might not have it run this good... So,,,,,No I have not changed any settings.

I feel the low end needs some change. I think it is a little lean at idle and up a few hundred rpm on fuel. (un smooth like,,,,, Very Faint Starving)     

It has a Little bit of "not being Perfectly smooth" at slow cruise speed like it could...
I really can't explain the feeling but it may need little more fuel But sometimes that might mean it needs less.. (If a carb, I'd have it whipped)

I still don't know smart tune??? I Am NOT schooled on this program, even though I have the CD,,, picking it up little by little. I'm un sure IF I need the computer Hooked up while I use Smart Tune recording or will it work without the computer on the bike riding it... (recorder I do understand BUT then What)

Some say to run smart tune BUT I have ?  I need MORE experience to use the smart tune... I think with practice and a little instruction...

The damn Teaching program doesn't TELL you How to use the smart tune. No step by step setting it up that I have found... THEN what are you looking for.??

Does it Know what is needed after running normal for a while?

Somme of the training course is like tossing out a bunch of ideas and not telling How to connect them for use (if that makes sense?)

Thanks for any help...

Thanks Coyote,,,,,You 'D Man :

signed....BUBBIE

PM Sent Canuck

[1Canuck]

bubbie
are you using the latest software 2014. confirm you have flashed 009SAH002. you are ready to start. The VCI is supposed to record 15 minutes without the computer hooked up, however I have recorded up to an hour. If you PM me your email I can send you a 2011PDF user manual, not much has changed, may be an easier read.
you should go ahead and do smart tune data runs. you can always start over so do not be concerned. you have to reflash the tune this time checking the smartune and reset AFV. once you do that, you can retrieve the flash from VCI to see how it changes the AFR and spark advance (just to know). once smart tune is flashed then go to the toolbox icon and set VCI to record. \
you can do the VE changes now or later but always flash the last saved tune so you are not running 14.6 AFR across the board unless doing data runs. enough for now

[BUBBIE]

I asked Coyote to Move My part of the thread into the new thread ..... I TITLED the thread and it was My Idea for IDIOTS... Kinda like the Idiot Light...

NO offense meant to any others who Might not KNOW and are not Idiots...

Could have been Called "Help for the Dummy's" but too many books out for them already...



signed....BUBBIE

[strokerjlk]

IF I MONKEY with it I Might not have it run this good... So,,,,,No I have not changed any settings.
you can always re flash the map like it is now .

I feel the low end needs some change. I think it is a little lean at idle and up a few hundred rpm on fuel. (un smooth like,,,,, Very Faint Starving)     

It has a Little bit of "not being Perfectly smooth" at slow cruise speed like it could...
I really can't explain the feeling but it may need little more fuel But sometimes that might mean it needs less.. (If a carb, I'd have it whipped)

take it out of closed loop below 2500 . somewhere around 13.8-14.2 and see if it smooths out

I still don't know smart tune??? I Am NOT schooled on this program, even though I have the CD,,, picking it up little by little. I'm un sure IF I need the computer Hooked up while I use Smart Tune recording or will it work without the computer on the bike riding it... (recorder I do understand BUT then What)

Some say to run smart tune BUT I have ?  I need MORE experience to use the smart tune... I think with practice and a little instruction...

The damn Teaching program doesn't TELL you How to use the smart tune. No step by step setting it up that I have found... THEN what are you looking for.??

Does it Know what is needed after running normal for a while?

Somme of the training course is like tossing out a bunch of ideas and not telling How to connect them for use (if that makes sense?)

Thanks for any help...

Thanks Coyote,,,,,You 'D Man :

signed....BUBBIE

PM Sent Canuck

[strokerjlk]

make it look something like this in the AFR table. and see what it does ,you can always go back.

[BUBBIE]

Today, I changed to use the Lower AFR # (more fuel) for 10% ethanol. (14.4)

Running it today proved it is a tad rich as it Burbles a Faint sound in the exhaust at slow speed throttle let offs. NOT loud but it is there right at the bottom end of the rpm range on slowing down.

The idle is labored Just a Little;  as if too much OR not enough fuel. like it wants to quit running when coming to a stop then picks back up to a normal idle but yet sporadic....

I know,  I know,  Make up my mind...

Believe me, this tune works better than the $$ tune from the HD shop.

It gives me the power when I twist the throttle and man it is there right now.

I will get the Low idle fixed soon by doing the MONKEYING I do and YES, I am enjoying to do it on My Bike.

LOL a fellow I know and telling him I am doing My own tuning...  said "There IS Big Money in TUNING HD's you know"...... I replied YES I know, I have spent a bunch on a Bad tune already

Thanks for the help so far... I'll bore you and keep posting here.

signed....BUBBIE

ADDED:

strokerjlk,

I am looking at your chart it just SCARY to think about...Maybe in a few days, as I just need to ride with the bike working so GOOD right now...
(wed for sure)

[strokerjlk]

I am looking at your chart it just SCARY to think about...Maybe in a few days, as I just need to ride with the bike working so GOOD right now...
(wed for sure)

if you use the table  for a guide,take the 14.2's in the 30 kpa areas to 13.8.
should help the burble you talked about.
since it isnt tuned correct. or at least the ve tables havent been dialed in,you have to get it out of closed loop.
if your dyno tune ran decent for a while before it started  unraveling ? you might try taking the dyno tuned map to open loop,and try it again.

[1Canuck]

strokerjlk
because I am still learning I compared the tune bubbie flashed 009SAH002 to my own and was surprised to see that the spark tables were retarded and the VE tables were also 10 less. I expected to see more VE not less with a 255 cam involved. So it looked leaner. can you explain
Steve

[strokerjlk]

strokerjlk
because I am still learning I compared the tune bubbie flashed 009SAH002 to my own and was surprised to see that the spark tables were retarded and the VE tables were also 10 less. I expected to see more VE not less with a 255 cam involved. So it looked leaner. can you explain
Steve

looked at them earlier and if i can remember correctly?
009 cal is flat top pistons OE or perf heads
044 is OE pistons and OE heads.

009 IS 103.3 CI
044 IS 103.0 CI in the constants.

009 ACR disabled
044 ACR enabled
so the 044 is a factory 103 with 255 cams added as a stage 2
009 is a BB kit with out ACR'S
they must figure the 009 has a little more compression,so they backed off timing.

they gave the 009 a little more fuel when they increased the ci .3 in the constant ,so the ve's are lower . just a SWAG
its all just a SWAG off the actual developed cal from the moco so its hard to tell

[HD/Wrench]

Being where you live your bike is only going to see 85-90 KPA  WOT  on AVG Now on a good air day. You will have to shift the afr to the left some and timing back some as well


Also the cal you are using is a MAP based cal not a TPS cal as your bike is a 2009.  The 18 MM vs the 12MM have two different out put codes from what I have read.... so the map may load you will have some off set///  I  have seen this happen and the tune is incorrect after guys have tried to smart tune the bike. But that was a while ago.  Myself if you are using smart tune load the correct base cal and then go from there, open loop tune would will work fine if you are using another data gathering system..

[1Canuck]

 
To explain my question on why the VE  original is different between 009 & 044 for 1690 stage 2 with SE255 cam, and then why does a stock 1580 stage 1 original take more air then stage 2 with SE255.
Only slight differences in the AFR table.
I would have expected more air flow. So what is it that I am missing?

009SAH002 & 044SDH004, both 1690 Stage 2, FT, SE255 cams
Compared to each other, and then compared to 044AAG003 for 1580 stock cam
For comparison purpose only the original 9 cells top left corner of VE front, 750-1125 rpm & up to 30 map

    70.0
   70.0
   70.0
     70.0
   70.0
   70.0
     67.0
   67.0
   67.0
    009SAH002 1690 Stage 2, FT, SE255 cams

    50.0
   50.0
   50.0
     50.0
   50.0
   50.0
     50.0
   50.0
   50.0
    044SDH004 1690 Stage 2, FT, SE255 cams

    79.0
   78.0
   77.0
     79.0
   78.5
   77.0
     79.0
   78.5
   78.5
    044AAG003 1580 stock cam

[strokerjlk]

I would be surprised if any of those cals are generated from a actual motorcycle .
They were more than likely, just generated from another cal. So it's just a formula .
That's why throwing maps at a bike is hit and miss.
There are some differences as I pointed out.
Pistons and head's
CI constant of 103.3 vs 103.0 means the map with .3 more ci is going to add more fuel globally .
So the ve's will be lower , if all things were equal
The timing is altered because flat top big bore with perf or OEM heads cal, is higher compression . ( or they thing it is higher comp)
In the end they are all just a place to start .

[hrdtail78]

 
To explain my question on why the VE  original is different between 009 & 044 for 1690 stage 2 with SE255 cam, and then why does a stock 1580 stage 1 original take more air then stage 2 with SE255.
Only slight differences in the AFR table.
I would have expected more air flow. So what is it that I am missing?

There are other tables we can't see.  Tables that address EGR for example.  Tuning these tables can bring down VE's.

Also the cal you are using is a MAP based cal not a TPS cal as your bike is a 2009.  The 18 MM vs the 12MM have two different out put codes from what I have read.... so the map may load you will have some off set///  I  have seen this happen and the tune is incorrect after guys have tried to smart tune the bike. But that was a while ago.  Myself if you are using smart tune load the correct base cal and then go from there, open loop tune would will work fine if you are using another data gathering system..

That cal. is for open loop only.

[1Canuck]

Both base maps  009SAH002  & 044SDH004 for 1690 Stage 2, FT, SE255 cams for 2010-2013 Touring. both list the same HD part numbers including FT SE Big Bore Flat Top Pistons, both are 103.3. The only difference in the tuning setup (constants?) are max RPM 009=6100, 044=6500.
AFR 009 has 14.4 & 14.3, the 044 has 14.3, 14.4, 14.5 & 14.6 so closed loop but close.
the 044 cal has 14.6 AFR with 50 in the VE, the 009 has 14.4 with 70 in the same cell. (of course displayed in lambda).
Even using a formula to develop cals as Strokerjlk said, there is a large difference (20) for a hidden table to compensate.
Then I compare to a base map for a 96.7ci the same cell is 14.3 & 77. So forgive me for having trouble understanding why a smaller cylinder fills with more air, and even the same 103.3 cylinder has such different base numbers.

[strokerjlk]

Both base maps  009SAH002  & 044SDH004 for 1690 Stage 2, FT, SE255 cams for 2010-2013 Touring. both list the same HD part numbers including FT SE Big Bore Flat Top Pistons, both are 103.3. The only difference in the tuning setup (constants?) are max RPM 009=6100, 044=6500.
AFR 009 has 14.4 & 14.3, the 044 has 14.3, 14.4, 14.5 & 14.6 so closed loop but close.
the 044 cal has 14.6 AFR with 50 in the VE, the 009 has 14.4 with 70 in the same cell. (of course displayed in lambda).
Even using a formula to develop cals as Strokerjlk said, there is a large difference (20) for a hidden table to compensate.
Then I compare to a base map for a 96.7ci the same cell is 14.3 & 77. So forgive me for having trouble understanding why a smaller cylinder fills with more air, and even the same 103.3 cylinder has such different base numbers.

the 96 ci has a smaller injector constant.

[harpwrench]

Both base maps  009SAH002  & 044SDH004 for 1690 Stage 2, FT, SE255 cams for 2010-2013 Touring. both list the same HD part numbers including FT SE Big Bore Flat Top Pistons, both are 103.3. The only difference in the tuning setup (constants?) are max RPM 009=6100, 044=6500.
AFR 009 has 14.4 & 14.3, the 044 has 14.3, 14.4, 14.5 & 14.6 so closed loop but close.
the 044 cal has 14.6 AFR with 50 in the VE, the 009 has 14.4 with 70 in the same cell. (of course displayed in lambda).
Even using a formula to develop cals as Strokerjlk said, there is a large difference (20) for a hidden table to compensate.
Then I compare to a base map for a 96.7ci the same cell is 14.3 & 77. So forgive me for having trouble understanding why a smaller cylinder fills with more air, and even the same 103.3 cylinder has such different base numbers.

Lambda cals don't use CLB, so when spotting differences you need to look at that. 14.6 with a higher-whatever CLB is kinda saying the same thing as 14.3 in lambda-speak. And there can be a difference in what AFR number is there for a given lambda if there's different numbers for stoic value of the fuel.

[1Canuck]

the 96 ci has a smaller injector constant.

all three are 4.35 injectors. but never mind the 96, why is there 20 difference in the VE table between the 009 & 044 cals for the same 103 engine.
Sorry Bubbie, you chose to use a 2010, 009 cal instead of the 205 cal for your 2009 bike and I have high jacked your thread trying to understand why it works.

[1Canuck]

Lambda cals don't use CLB, so when spotting differences you need to look at that. 14.6 with a higher-whatever CLB is kinda saying the same thing as 14.3 in lambda-speak. And there can be a difference in what AFR number is there for a given lambda if there's different numbers for stoic value of the fuel.

again, forget the 96 and just deal with the 009 & 044 cals for the 103.3 only. why is the VE 20% apart when everything else is the same. yes I get the lambda v. CLB

[1Canuck]

Being where you live your bike is only going to see 85-90 KPA  WOT  on AVG Now on a good air day. You will have to shift the afr to the left some and timing back some as well


Also the cal you are using is a MAP based cal not a TPS cal as your bike is a 2009.  The 18 MM vs the 12MM have two different out put codes from what I have read.... so the map may load you will have some off set///  I  have seen this happen and the tune is incorrect after guys have tried to smart tune the bike. But that was a while ago.  Myself if you are using smart tune load the correct base cal and then go from there, open loop tune would will work fine if you are using another data gathering system..

On the underlined I agree 100%. but the OP loaded a cal from the 2010-13 touring into a 09 touring. on close look the ECM is the same, so the 2010 cal is one of the right maps to load or the ECM would not have accepted it.
may be wrong but I think the 09 has the 12mm O2 sensors

[HighLiner]

Glad your getting a lot of help here.  I asked once on another board about buying the software just to play with the timing a little and was shut down, told I would cause major damage seeing how I've never tuned before.  This is a great place for info!  Good Luck.

[hrdtail78]

Being where you live your bike is only going to see 85-90 KPA  WOT  on AVG Now on a good air day. You will have to shift the afr to the left some and timing back some as well


Also the cal you are using is a MAP based cal not a TPS cal as your bike is a 2009.  The 18 MM vs the 12MM have two different out put codes from what I have read.... so the map may load you will have some off set///  I  have seen this happen and the tune is incorrect after guys have tried to smart tune the bike. But that was a while ago.  Myself if you are using smart tune load the correct base cal and then go from there, open loop tune would will work fine if you are using another data gathering system..

On the underlined I agree 100%. but the OP loaded a cal from the 2010-13 touring into a 09 touring. on close look the ECM is the same, so the 2010 cal is one of the right maps to load or the ECM would not have accepted it.
may be wrong but I think the 09 has the 12mm O2 sensors

09's have 18mm sensors.  You can load it with a SE tuner.  Other tuners don't let you do this, and IIRC you do get a warning with the SE stuff.  I brought up EGR because other tuners do allow access to these.  Some have seen the changes these tables make to the VE tables.  There are other ones we don't see.  In order to really explain the 20 difference.  We would have to see all the tables to really see what is going on.  Remember that these are a generic starter map's.  For OE or performance heads.  Flow of the heads are also going to dictate airflow also.

[1Canuck]

Then shall we tell BUBBIE to unload the 2010 cal and load a 2009 cal and tune from there?

[HD/Wrench]

I loaded a 10 cal into a 07 bike it worked. I did not think it would FBW vs non map vs TPS however if you are ont he dyno or have other data tools to gather and use to tune it does work.

He is trying to smart tune his bike with no other help. It will be a stretch to get it running right if at all.   I have sent Bubbie a 103 / 255 map with a close ex with the correct cal for him to load. He stated it runs better thus far and will ride it and then start to smart tune. He is a Mac computer guy so he is dealing with that learning curve and is not a tuner so add that on as well.. He needs a simple fix that he can ride , gather data, reload and get it a better AFR curve. The map that he had did not work to smart tune from what he said.   As for the changes in maps  .. who knows and why does it matter . Not like the starting maps really work well anways and who the heck knows what changes where made in tables that we cannot see. 

[hrdtail78]

Then shall we tell BUBBIE to unload the 2010 cal and load a 2009 cal and tune from there?

YES.

[strokerjlk]

Then shall we tell BUBBIE to unload the 2010 cal and load a 2009 cal and tune from there?

Not if he takes it to open loop like I mentioned .
I have a few 09's running around with 009 cals , in open loop .
They run smooth as silk . One of them I have tuned 4 times with diff cams heads pipes . Etc etc.
I put it in closed loop and rode the bike 20-25 miles . Seemed ok ,it didn't unravel in that amount of time . But I sent it on its way in open loop .
Still runs great . You can't turn off the 02 heaters with a sepst is the only problem . So don't run closed loop .

[BUBBIE]

the 96 ci has a smaller injector constant.

all three are 4.35 injectors. but never mind the 96, why is there 20 difference in the VE table between the 009 & 044 cals for the same 103 engine.
Sorry Bubbie, you chose to use a 2010, 009 cal instead of the 205 cal for your 2009 bike and I have high jacked your thread trying to understand why it works.

I HAVE NEVER A Problem with ANY others asking and Posting... My THREADS are always OPEN for all use...

signed....BUBBIE

[hdmanillac]

 

Interesting thread for an idiot like me !

[BUBBIE]

I have the luck of Gmr Steve that offered his help. Giving me a late dyno tune that is the correct one for my bike.
He dyno'ed the same 103 motor with the Air and 255cams and basic stock other than exhaust is different.

It really solved the small amount of erratic Idle and warm-up... Now Just great there.

The run-ability of the bike IS best it has been using the SE pro...

I had it running good before using the Dobeck Fueler at 103 so I know what to expect for good.. NOT Best but Good... and now with the tunable SE Pro , a lot more choices...

Steve the leaning you did for the Faint burble helped. VERY Livable now....It was so Little of an amount to start with and like you said "came on after the injectors reopened and right at almost lugging idle in a gear. FEW and Very Faint...

Taking it out for More miles this friday and weekend Just to check the mileage and Ride it.

I will need practice and re read-  re read -  re read the instructions to do the Smart tune... I'll get there.

IF the bike had come OFF the Dyno from that hD shop,,,,,,, with YOUR tune you gave me, and running like it does,,,,,, I Would have been Happy ....

It will improve when I get to Smart Tuning it LIKE You Said...

signed....BUBBIE

[BUBBIE]

 

What Gives???

RAIN in Az... well that puts off my riding for a few days.... I might melt if I get Wet...

Just talked with my friend "geezer ron"  from Manitoba and it might warm up to 32* tomorrow and I KNOW he'll be out riding... You Canucks are a Tough Breed ....

Good chance  for me to listen/read and watch my Learning CD again. Smart Tune and the PC are Both new to me BUT I am getting the hang of it. 

Coyote was correct when he said some people just need   well I may need a couple of them

Thanks all until later

signed....BUBBIE

[hrdtail78]

Glad to hear to you got a good starter map.  Good luck.

[BUBBIE]

Just an UP-date.....

I put the 009 tune back into the bike. Changed out the fuel to the ethanol and moved the lower RPM/kpa to 13.9 out of loop. and a few other Secret things....Using that HD tune from the 2010/11 bike with the same Mods as my bike. Don Dorfman's heads Mostly stock but Blueprinted, squeezed down a bit, Singh Grooved,  using .030 gaskets, 190lbs ccc here at 4400' elevation. plus some intake work. then, SE103 flat-tops, SE 255 cams, Gaterman lifters, V&H slip-ons, SE air... Using the SE Pro Tuner and my PC lap-top. Seat of my backside as the Dyno.

One thing I like using this later tune is the Cruise doesn't kick out at 82 like the stock 09 does. Now kicks out at 95...

Whoever thinks the SE255 cams Don't run FAST at Higher RPM and Power at higher RPM NEEDS TO RIDE MY BIKE...

Had a dept. Sheriff ride my bike yesterday, to compare what I did to mine that he might want ( Now WANTS) to do to his 96" 08 SG Skull covered custom painted bike.

He rode it 12 miles and I could Hear him go thru the gears.
Coming back to a stop with the BIGGEST SMILE I have ever seen on him.... Shaking his head saying Several times " MAN",,,,,, "MAN it is surely a TICKET Getter"...  Laughing,,,,Saying he thought a Stater might of seen him on the test ride.

Sure, Thanks, Now I've got to watch out for him...

Thanks for the many HELPS here and JUST waiting for HOT weather here in Az. , to see IF it runs good with NO Ping like Now.

signed....BUBBIE

[fltrdes]

Really enjoy reading this thread. LOTS of  useful information for another NEW SEPST owner. I have the SEPST, cables and training DVD but NOT the BIKE!!! Mine is currently being reassembled by my dealer after warranty replacing flywheel assy, SE Compensator, leaky stator plug and a few other maladies.
Will flash a starting tune when I get the bike back with stock engine and SE-255 cams, Stage 1 A/C and stock exhaust. My intention is to have a reliable map to get the new engine parts broke in (500-1000 miles) before conducting smart tune runs to tune in the new map. Wurk truk was nice enough to guide me towards a starting map in my SEPST software as a starting point.

[strokerjlk]

Problem is you don't know what you have for those first 500-1000 miles .
Much more important to have it tuned correct , during the seating of the rings .
Seating the rings while tuning stoich is not a good idea either .

[fltrdes]

Problem is you don't know what you have for those first 500-1000 miles .

Do you mean I don't know what my ECM parameters are during the break in?

Much more important to have it tuned correct , during the seating of the rings .

Doesn't 'active' tuning actually require the motor to already be 'broken in'? Seems kind of like a 'Catch 22' situation....

Seating the rings while tuning stoich is not a good idea either .

Stoich being 14.6 in closed loop, which is where the better breakin RPM range would be running with 205UH005.dt0. Seems like the SE Exhaust parameter for this MAP would add more fuel with the injector pulse. I am running a more restrictive OEM stock exhaust system.

The 044SBN004.dt0 map for newer 2010-2013 and similar configuration w/SE255 cams allows stoich adjustment for Ethanol fuel (14.6, 14.3 & 13.5), which we have in this area. Strange the 205UH005.dt0 MAP does not allow for this change (I know I am missing something here...!). Probably the 02 sensor type...? Can I just readjust this area manually?

[strokerjlk]

You might know what the map says the parameters are . But until you calabrate the ve's you have no idea what the Afr actually is .
It can be set at 14.6 in the Afr table , and be actual 17.0 Afr .
Or it can say 12.5 at wot in thr afr table and be 10.0 Afr actual .
If your going to tune it . Tune it right away . Riding 500-1000 miles untuned is far more Detrimental than anything a proper dyno tune will do . If your gonna try to tune with the stock narrow bands , you might as well start as soon as you do a heat cycle .
But tuning with narrow bands creates a lot of heat . That's the catch 22 .
Your choices are riding in tuned for 1000 miles , or seating the rings and tuning at stoich .

You seem to have a lot  of faith in a canned map . They are just a place to start tuning from .

[hrdtail78]

Closed loop tuning does not equal 14.7 or 1 lambda.  While in CL mode the ECM will hold AFR to a tolerance around the target AFR.  The tolorance is not 10-17:1 AFR.

I believe in getting it tuned right away.  No reason to wait. 

[fltrdes]

Closed loop tuning does not equal 14.7 or 1 lambda.  While in CL mode the ECM will hold AFR to a tolerance around the target AFR.  The tolorance is not 10-17:1 AFR.

I believe in getting it tuned right away.  No reason to wait. 

You might know what the map says the parameters are . But until you calabrate the ve's you have no idea what the Afr actually is .
It can be set at 14.6 in the Afr table , and be actual 17.0 Afr .
Or it can say 12.5 at wot in thr afr table and be 10.0 Afr actual .
If your going to tune it . Tune it right away . Riding 500-1000 miles untuned is far more Detrimental than anything a proper dyno tune will do . If your gonna try to tune with the stock narrow bands , you might as well start as soon as you do a heat cycle .
But tuning with narrow bands creates a lot of heat . That's the catch 22 .
Your choices are riding in tuned for 1000 miles , or seating the rings and tuning at stoich .

You seem to have a lot  of faith in a canned map . They are just a place to start tuning from .

strokerjlk, please don't interpret my post as having so much 'faith' in canned maps. I just think that the maps provided by HD are supposed to be close enough that you wouldn't harm your motor. Maybe I am mistaken there... I am just looking for a STARTING point to at least get the bike through some initial heat cycles and get the bike the 6 miles home from the dealer. I may well be too far over my head to do that and should just take my SEPST and cables in there and let them not only conduct the first initial break in heat cycles, but let them tune it on the dyno. I was trying to save some $$ and learn this at the same time.
hrdtail78, thanks for your input as well. You guys have far more experience than I and if you've built motors and gone through the tuning process as well as break in process, then you know exactly what I need to do. Right?

I will have a conversation with my tech and have him make the final say so on how to proceed. After all, he built it and should know what I need to do to get this bike safely out of the shop and road worthy. Once they have re-mapped it with whatever base map they use, I can get that from them as well as the tuned map from my VCI once the bike is released to me. I may be allowed to watch and learn from them while the tune it in.
It has been a lot of years since I had to break in a new bike, or new motor parts for that matter, so am a little rusty on procedure or what the Twin Cam requires... Googling the issue brings up several opinions.

I confess I have a set of Xied's I've not used yet, too. Could throw them on to enrichin the 02s till I have a few local miles on the thing...(don't laugh, damn it!)

[hdmanillac]

The 044SBN004.dt0 map for newer 2010-2013 and similar configuration w/SE255 cams allows stoich adjustment for Ethanol fuel (14.6, 14.3 & 13.5), which we have in this area. Strange the 205UH005.dt0 MAP does not allow for this change (I know I am missing something here...!). Probably the 02 sensor type...? Can I just readjust this area manually?

205UH005 is an AFR cal that is tuned for 14.68 stoich fuel (gas). It need to be adjusted each time you change fuel.

044SBN004 is a lambda cal that adapts itself to the fuel you choose.

AFR is always related to a stoich AFR value depending on the fuel (gas, E10, E85...), whereas lambda is independant value.

[strokerjlk]

Closed loop tuning does not equal 14.7 or 1 lambda.  While in CL mode the ECM will hold AFR to a tolerance around the target AFR.  The tolorance is not 10-17:1 AFR.

I believe in getting it tuned right away.  No reason to wait. 

You might know what the map says the parameters are . But until you calabrate the ve's you have no idea what the Afr actually is .
It can be set at 14.6 in the Afr table , and be actual 17.0 Afr .
Or it can say 12.5 at wot in thr afr table and be 10.0 Afr actual .
If your going to tune it . Tune it right away . Riding 500-1000 miles untuned is far more Detrimental than anything a proper dyno tune will do . If your gonna try to tune with the stock narrow bands , you might as well start as soon as you do a heat cycle .
But tuning with narrow bands creates a lot of heat . That's the catch 22 .
Your choices are riding in tuned for 1000 miles , or seating the rings and tuning at stoich .

You seem to have a lot  of faith in a canned map . They are just a place to start tuning from .

strokerjlk, please don't interpret my post as having so much 'faith' in canned maps. I just think that the maps provided by HD are supposed to be close enough that you wouldn't harm your motor. Maybe I am mistaken there... I am just looking for a STARTING point to at least get the bike through some initial heat cycles and get the bike the 6 miles home from the dealer. I may well be too far over my head to do that and should just take my SEPST and cables in there and let them not only conduct the first initial break in heat cycles, but let them tune it on the dyno. I was trying to save some $$ and learn this at the same time.
hrdtail78, thanks for your input as well. You guys have far more experience than I and if you've built motors and gone through the tuning process as well as break in process, then you know exactly what I need to do. Right?

I will have a conversation with my tech and have him make the final say so on how to proceed. After all, he built it and should know what I need to do to get this bike safely out of the shop and road worthy. Once they have re-mapped it with whatever base map they use, I can get that from them as well as the tuned map from my VCI once the bike is released to me. I may be allowed to watch and learn from them while the tune it in.
It has been a lot of years since I had to break in a new bike, or new motor parts for that matter, so am a little rusty on procedure or what the Twin Cam requires... Googling the issue brings up several opinions.

I confess I have a set of Xied's I've not used yet, too. Could throw them on to enrichin the 02s till I have a few local miles on the thing...(don't laugh, damn it!)

6 miles is a lot diff than 500-1000
good luck 

[fltrdes]

The 044SBN004.dt0 map for newer 2010-2013 and similar configuration w/SE255 cams allows stoich adjustment for Ethanol fuel (14.6, 14.3 & 13.5), which we have in this area. Strange the 205UH005.dt0 MAP does not allow for this change (I know I am missing something here...!). Probably the 02 sensor type...? Can I just readjust this area manually?

205UH005 is an AFR cal that is tuned for 14.68 stoich fuel (gas). It need to be adjusted each time you change fuel.

hdmanillac,
So I would manually change the AFR tables to a Ethanol mix gas to say 13.6 to account for our area gas? Aren't our 02 sensors designed to to force the ECM to adjust back to 14.7, even if we flashed the new table?

044SBN004 is a lambda cal that adapts itself to the fuel you choose.

AFR is always related to a stoich AFR value depending on the fuel (gas, E10, E85...), whereas lambda is independent value.

Are you tuning your own '09? I know our 02 sensors are different than '10 & later...

[hdmanillac]

with and AFR based cal you'll have to manually change the stoichiometric factor for the specific gas you use.

With a lambda based cal, you will have nothing to do.

O2 sensor only return a value in mV related to O2% in exhaust gases regardless the fuel you use.

O2 sensor are different models between 2009 (not heated) and 2010 (heated) bikes but they return the same value in mV.

And yes I'm tuning my own 09'. I'm not a profesionnal tuner, just fan of HD V-Twin !

[hrdtail78]

Both sensors are going to put out the same voltage.  They are both lambda sensors and put out lambda signal voltage.  Changing the scale in the program is going to do nothing on how the ECM reads the voltage or what lambda it is going to target.  It is just a scale you our reading.

Lambda = 450mv  If 14.2 is stoich, That will put out 450mv.  If 13.8 is stoich, that will put out 450.  No reason to change from fuel to fuel.  It is scaling.

[fltrdes]

Wrapping my head around Dr. Dyno explanations of 02 sensors and other tuning black magic here:

http://www.drdyno.com/AIM_2010-09.html
http://www.drdyno.com/AIM_2010-07.html

Great explanations of cause and effect!

[jty]

Both sensors are going to put out the same voltage.  They are both lambda sensors and put out lambda signal voltage.  Changing the scale in the program is going to do nothing on how the ECM reads the voltage or what lambda it is going to target.  It is just a scale you our reading.

Lambda = 450mv  If 14.2 is stoich, That will put out 450mv.  If 13.8 is stoich, that will put out 450.  No reason to change from fuel to fuel.  It is scaling.

If you use 10% ethanol gas, the AFR at stoic is about 14.1 but sensors do not know it.

Assuming you smart tune the bike with 10% ethanol gas (95E this side of the pond), the VE's will still be adjusted properly for that fuel. Thus if your AFR table says 14.6, the real AFR will be 14.1 but combustion will be stoic - and lambda 1. All good. If you set your afr table to 13.2, i.e. lambda 0.9, the real afr will be 12.9 - but it's the lambda that matters so again, all good. As long as you use the same gas, all is good.
What happens if you then use 100% gasoline? The VE's were adjusted for 3% lower AFR fuel. In the area where the AFR table is set for closed loop (14.6), the ecm automatically adjusts and over time it learns the difference (afv).  In the areas where the AFR table is in open loop, say, 13.2, the actual mixture is then about 3% richer, thus the actual AFR would be about 12.9, but the learned afv may affect that too. But at least the mixture will not  not too lean.

[fltrdes]

It appears (reads...) that the VE tables may be the best bet in adjusting overall AFRs on the narrow band 02 equipped Twin Cam '07-'09...

[hrdtail78]

It appears (reads...) that the VE tables may be the best bet in adjusting overall AFRs on the narrow band 02 equipped Twin Cam '07-'09...

Not in my experience.  If the VE's are mapped to airflow correctly.  Adjustments to the AFR table is better.

[fltrdes]

It appears (reads...) that the VE tables may be the best bet in adjusting overall AFRs on the narrow band 02 equipped Twin Cam '07-'09...

Not in my experience.  If the VE's are mapped to airflow correctly.  Adjustments to the AFR table is better.

I would think that VE mapping can be adjusted to tell the ECM that it is getting more airflow that it actually is, and therefore you would get an enriching pulse from the injectors in closed loop mode. The narrow band 02 sensors will only read between 15:1 to 14.2:1. 14.2:1 is far better than 14.7:1 but I believe the higher 13:1 range will giver better performance and cooler motor overall (quoting some Dr. Dyno info here...). He suggests putting 02 sensor eliminators on the narrow band 02 sensor bikes and tune them with a PC III-usb as if they were pre '02 machines.

[lonewolf]

I would think that VE mapping can be adjusted to tell the ECM that it is getting more airflow that it actually is, and therefore you would get an enriching pulse from the injectors in closed loop mode. The narrow band 02 sensors will only read between 15:1 to 14.2:1. 14.2:1 is far better than 14.7:1 but I believe the higher 13:1 range will giver better performance and cooler motor overall (quoting some Dr. Dyno info here...). He suggests putting 02 sensor eliminators on the narrow band 02 sensor bikes and tune them with a PC III-usb as if they were pre '02 machines.

Don't believe everything you read on the internet. Hrdtail's got it right.

[hrdtail78]

Set those areas to 13.1 and run that area open loop.

[fltrdes]

Set those areas to 13.1 and run that area open loop.

With 02 eliminators?

[hrdtail78]

There is no need for those with SEPST.

[fltrdes]

I watched my Harley tech flash a map into my ECM today, and I noticed when he checked the boxes for "Enable Smart tune Reflash" and "Reset Adaptive Fuel". When he clicked the reflash button, he got a warning message on his screen. I don't remember exactly what it said but it was something to the effect that "Smart tune is not recommended for this MAP" or something similar. When he selected 'continue' and clicked the reflash button, the software unchecked the "Enable Smart tune Reflash" box but continued with the reflash. I was not able to manipulate the software myself so I could not check to see if he was in the advanced mode (not sure if this would have cured this issue or not). I did have him use file 205UH005.dt0 and reset the CID to 96.1 in Tuning Setup.
He will test ride and I should be able to pick up the bike this weekend.

[1Canuck]

The message said that he set up the tuner to collect data for VE adjustments but the warning said do not ride the bike with that setting except for collection of data. after he rides he will collect the data, update the VE and reflash without checking the enable smart tune box. I hope, I mean you hope. Be sure to ask if he reflashed without the box checked when you pick up the bike

[fltrdes]

The message said that he set up the tuner to collect data for VE adjustments but the warning said do not ride the bike with that setting except for collection of data. after he rides he will collect the data, update the VE and reflash without checking the enable smart tune box. I hope, I mean you hope. Be sure to ask if he reflashed without the box checked when you pick up the bike

My tech originally reflashed the ECM with a Stage 1 download. When I came in this morning to check on his progress with the bike I was told it was done. I had my tech reflash again with a Stage II download and that is when I noticed the "Enable Smart tune Reflash" box was being unchecked by the reflash process.
I will be doing the Smart Tune process on the street instead of the dealer doing it on the Dyno. My tech suggested they NOT do the smart tune on the Dyno because it is too hard on the motor. Apparently they are taught to use the Dyno break to apply load to the rear tire and it is too much (in his opinion...). I am not real clear on their exact procedure.

[hrdtail78]

I would get your bike out of there ASAP.  Brake load on the dyno is dependent on several things, and making a blanket statement is ignorance.  IMHO

[1Canuck]

I watched my Harley tech flash a map into my ECM today, and I noticed when he checked the boxes for "Enable Smart tune Reflash" and "Reset Adaptive Fuel". When he clicked the reflash button, he got a warning message on his screen. .............
He will test ride and I should be able to pick up the bike this weekend.

now you say it is finished today, which is it?
you flashed with stage II, because?
In any event retrieve the stage II flash from the VCI and look at the AFR table, if it is all 14.6 you have a problem

[fltrdes]

I watched my Harley tech flash a map into my ECM today, and I noticed when he checked the boxes for "Enable Smart tune Reflash" and "Reset Adaptive Fuel". When he clicked the reflash button, he got a warning message on his screen. .............
He will test ride and I should be able to pick up the bike this weekend.

now you say it is finished today, which is it?

Yes, I was told the bike is done today. No, they did not do a dyno tune on it, they only flashed map 205UH005.dt0.

you flashed with stage II, because?

Bike has a Stage 1 aircleaner and SE-255 cams. That was the closest BASE file for my hardware config. That is what base file 205UH005.dt0 is for except we modified the displacement to 96.1 c.i..

In any event retrieve the stage II flash from the VCI and look at the AFR table, if it is all 14.6 you have a problem

I believe the base map for any of the Twin Cams would have 14.6 AFR in the closed loop areas. Not sure because I have not looked through all of them. In your opinion, why would I be in trouble over and above it was already a toaster to begin with? Believe me, I intend to richen up the closed loop AFR one way or the other....
hrdtail78 posted that I should set them all at 13.1:1. Seems a little rich to me for good mileage and a cooler motor, but then who am I to judge. Hope he meant well with that suggestion. Bike is a full dress 'casual' ride for the wife and I, not a street light-to-street light asphalt burner...
Thanks for your post, 1Canuck.

[1Canuck]

My replies were for the question you asked about the warning when he flashed with "enable smart tune" checked.
I said you need to check to make sure it was not left with ALL the AFR at 14.6, it will be too lean outside the cruise area

[fltrdes]

My replies were for the question you asked about the warning when he flashed with "enable smart tune" checked.
I said you need to check to make sure it was not left with ALL the AFR at 14.6, it will be too lean outside the cruise area

Thank you, I must have misunderstood your question... I did not compare the entire AFR table for the Stage II map but I am pretty sure the red 14.6:1 cells were only in the usual closed loop area, not high speed... Is that what you meant? In any case, this is still too high AFR! I could attach my Xieds to the 02 sensors and that will richen up the AFR outside the ECM and affect only the closed loop area... At least that or I just adjust the closed loop AFR map down at least to 13.5:1 and reflash...

[harpwrench]

You might wanna read about closed loop bias.

[hrdtail78]

When you check the smart tune button.  It doesn't show you the AFR/ spark tables.  You can pull it back out and see what it changes though.

What is the desired AFR you are looking for and in which areas?  Idle, light load, medium load, and WOT?

[fltrdes]

When you check the smart tune button.  It doesn't show you the AFR/ spark tables.  You can pull it back out and see what it changes though.

What is the desired AFR you are looking for and in which areas?  Idle, light load, medium load, and WOT?

hrdtail78, I guess I am not sure what AFR I want in closed loop other than I want to cut way down on the heat generated but I am willing to sacrifice a minimal amount of fuel mileage too. I use the bike for touring and pulling a trailer, so it is more of a 'truck' for us as opposed to a 'sports car'. We wanted more low and mid range torque, hence the SE-255 cam option. With that said, I think the light load and medium load areas, running in closed loop, would be the concentration of the final tune.
I am comparing all the map settings between 205TD004 map, which appears to be a Stage 1 for my '09 RG and the 205UH005 map, which appears to be the closest choice for my SE-255 cams and Stage 1 A/C setup.

Snowing again here in the part of Montana where I live, so getting the bike back home from the dealer this week end is looking tentative at best.

[strokerjlk]

maybe this will help.
you got some bad info somewhere.

http://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,26802.0.html

[joe_lyons]

Not doing smart tune on the dyno is absolutely dumb.  A. Controlled temp. B. Ability to view rear afr. C. You can properly control load for all rpm ranges  D.  No possible way of breaking roadway laws due to speeding.    I guess I don't understand why those guys even have a dyno if they don't use it but mabie its because they do not know how to.  In the words of my priest "Run to the hills, run for your life".
Others may have other ideas but this I think is a decent afr table to use after smart tuning

[fltrdes]

Not doing smart tune on the dyno is absolutely dumb.  A. Controlled temp. B. Ability to view rear afr. C. You can properly control load for all rpm ranges  D.  No possible way of breaking roadway laws due to speeding.    I guess I don't understand why those guys even have a dyno if they don't use it but maybe its because they do not know how to.  In the words of my priest "Run to the hills, run for your life".
Others may have other ideas but this I think is a decent afr table to use after smart tuning.

Joe, thanks for bringing up some REAL valid points. In my case, I have been dealing with a service tech at the dealership I've known for several years but only recently has he spent some major engine work on my bike. He does not operate the dyno for tuning I believe, I think there is another tech there that actually does the tuning, and I WILL be have conversation with him to understand THEIR tuning process. If the tech thinks it is too hard on the vehicle, I want to know exactly why he thinks that. Is your AFR MAP off your smart tune? What year, model and upgrades does this one represent?

[fltrdes]

maybe this will help.
you got some bad info somewhere.

http://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,26802.0.html

strokerjlk, an interesting read, even if I don't understand ALL of it, I came away with that the 02 sensor works best if allowed to do its job in the middle of its operation range. I believe most metering devices are like that. (ie: torque wrenches are more accurate with readings in the middle of their settings than at either end of their range.).
The question is, then, where are the BEST and most effective areas in the MAP to affect a closed loop functionality to achieve a lower AFR (all other inputs and outputs of the ECM considered), cooler running bike, and most effective power for any given hardware menu?
It seems to me (being a band-aid of sorts) that the Xieds that change the effective MV range of the narrow band '09 02 sensors on my bike would effect a change in the stoich AFR ALONG with changing the AFR MAP in the closed loop area commensurate with what the Xied value range is supposed to be (14.0:1 to 13.8:1).

[Grillfish]

"cooler running bike, and most effective power"

That takes a combination of accurate VEs, with a well established target AFR table AND timing   Many people throw fuel at the bike to cool it down, but slight changes to timing can impact EGTs tremendously.

Few posts above, Joe shared what he uses as a good target AFR map to use, AFTER the VEs are calibrated.  Other folks use a different approach and their map looks slightly different.

[fltrdes]

"cooler running bike, and most effective power"

That takes a combination of accurate VEs, with a well established target AFR table AND timing   Many people throw fuel at the bike to cool it down, but slight changes to timing can impact EGTs tremendously.

Few posts above, Joe shared what he uses as a good target AFR map to use, AFTER the VEs are calibrated.  Other folks use a different approach and their map looks slightly different.

I have read the smart tune process varies results on the environment you record smart tune in, so if I were to do my own smart tune recording 'on the road' this process will have to wait till our Spring kicks in!
I have read that the optimum smart tune should be done around 75° or so. I would need to do this to accomplish correct VE calibration, right? Then induce Joe's target AFR and then retune? (considering Joe's hardware mix is similar to mine??).

[strokerjlk]

Once you change your Afr table ( as joe ) then you want to run it like that .
If you had a way of checking Afr other than smart tune ? This would be the time to use it .
You want to go back and verify what smart tune did was indeed what you actually have .
And if you really want to see if you have a good closed loop tune ? You would check the actual Afr after some time riding the bike. All close loop tunes are not the same . Some  deteriorate after a few miles . Garbage in garbage out .
If its setup right in closed loop, the adaptive values won't affect the "originally tuned map"
If you had a PV tuner you could shut off the adaptive learn.
But with sepst your stuck with living with them .
You should be able to find a decent medium with your bike .
Some bikes have no business running closed loop anywhere .
It is amazing how one spot in a map that doesn't sample correct , can effect the overall tune.


Your question about perfect temp to smart tune . I suppose 75 deg would be ok . Perhaps 100 deg would be better . Regardless the ECM dictates changes based on intake temp, barometric pressure , ambient temp , engine temp . Etc . Close loop or and open loop .So it really isn't necessary to wait for a certain ambient temp to tune . But I suppose 75 deg would be somewhat a middle ground .

[joe_lyons]

I would say that a cooler temp would be better for road tuning because of the heat that you can encounter.  That afr table that I put up is a general run of the mill afr table that just about anyone can use if hardcore cams are used then it needs to change but for a 255 it will work fine.

[HV]

One thing I like about the PV too is you can set two screens to read the O2 Integrator Values Front and Rear  as your riding after a tune...if they stay at or near 100% the AFV is not correcting anything any way

[fltrdes]

I would say that a cooler temp would be better for road tuning because of the heat that you can encounter.  That afr table that I put up is a general run of the mill afr table that just about anyone can use if hardcore cams are used then it needs to change but for a 255 it will work fine.

Thanks Joe, I will adjust my 205UH005.dt0 map to those settings and see how it runs.

My AFR map differs from yours slightly. I have an 75% column where yours shows 85% column.

[strokerjlk]

if you have decel pop  richen up, the 20 kpa column from 1700-4000 rpms

[BUBBIE]

if you have decel pop  richen up, the 20 kpa column from 1700-4000 rpms

Jim said that to me in this thread way back, and IT Worked well in mine ....

My settings= 20 kpa over thru 60 kpa all set at 13.9 and down to 2250 on RPM (rectangle box set the same 13.9)

Thanks Jim...

signed....BUBBIE

[fltrdes]

Today was the first day I connected my SEPST to my bike and re-flashed my ECM. Upon connecting the tuner with the software initialized, I was required to download and update the software. After updating software and restarting, I was required to install software to the VCI. All good and the software populated with ECM P/N, Year, Family and Model. Since I have only ridden my bike a couple times since major engine warranty work and installation of the SE-255 cams, the only issue I have recognized at this point is some decel popping. I decided (after reading several posts about this issue) to richen up the fuel in the 'decel enleanment' area of the ECM.
I opened the custom file I modified (Original flash 205UH005-001.dt0) Don205UH005.dt0 and LOWERED the values in the 'Mult' (Multiplier?) column as you can see in the image below, saved the file as Don205UH005_DecelFuelMods3-17-14.dt0 and re-flashed the ECM selecting 'Enable Smart Tune Reflash' and 'Reset Adaptive Fuel'.
I am hoping to sneak up to an acceptable and positive fuel change to fix the decel popping without overkill....
I have not ridden the bike yet to check the decel popping 'cure'.

[joe_lyons]

Which decell pop are you having?  Poping when shifting or quick roll off or long drawn out poping?  Decell enleanment takes care of the short pops or when there is a delta change in throttle closing and if you have long drawn out poping you can add timing to the low map area and or adjust afr in that area also.

[fltrdes]

Which decell pop are you having?  Poping when shifting or quick roll off or long drawn out poping?  Decell enleanment takes care of the short pops or when there is a delta change in throttle closing and if you have long drawn out poping you can add timing to the low map area and or adjust afr in that area also.

Decel popping occuring rolling off throttle (closed throttle) from 30, 40mph. Not so much downshifting.
I've read other posts (here or elsewhere) that timing changes we mostly ineffective. I'll know more on the next ride. I'm still in break in stages so thrashing around in a lot of hard pulls to push decel analysis may be a bit premature.
Question: When making these changes in the map and re flashing,  is it better to check the 'clear adaptive fuel' until I'm ready to do my smart tune runs?

Do you suggest any specific throttle applications to check decel popping?

[strokerjlk]

Question: When making these changes in the map and re flashing,  is it better to check the 'clear adaptive fuel' until I'm ready to do my smart tune runs?

Yes ...don't select smart tune unless you are collecting data .
You might want to try riding your bike without smart tune enabled , with the changes you made.
You might not have as much decel pop as you do with it enabled .

[fltrdes]

Decel Popping is address in the SEPST instructions (Version 7.004.0000) within the software SEPST Online Help section:

Deceleration Enleanment
"The Decel Enleanment Table, located in the Advanced Tuning, is a multiplier, which in part, tells the ECM how much fuel to remove during a throttle roll-out at a specific engine temperature. This is one of several tables and variables that make up the total Deceleration Enleanment fuel that is delivered to the engine. Other variables that affect the amount of fuel removed include: engine speed, map load, how fast the throttle is moved, and how much the throttle is moved.

Prior to a deceleration event, the engine is running in a steady state condition and is delivering a steady flow of fuel. When the throttle position is decreased, the engine eventually reaches a new steady state condition with a lower rate of fuel flow. The engine needs less fuel delivered during this change as the amount of fuel in the intake system is more than the engine needs for the new condition. On an EFI bike, this is called Deceleration Enleanment.

Decel exhaust popping is combustion occurring in the exhaust. Since combustion occurs over a narrow range of A/F ratios, popping can be cured by either richening or leaning the unburned mixture in the exhaust so it cannot combust.

Any changes made to the Decel Enleanment table increase or decrease the amount of fuel delivered while the Deceleration Enleanment mode is in effect.

Use this Tuning Table to increase or decrease the fuel removed during a Deceleration event so that it runs properly.
If exhaust smells of fuel on throttle roll-off – increase the Decel Enleanment cells to increase the amount of fuel Enleanment.
Use Data Items to identify what engine temperature the problem is located in."

This is from the Gospel. Not intended for any other purpose than to share what is IN the Moco instructions for those to read here, in case those with this device that may have missed it.

strokerjlk: Thanks for your suggestion. I think the selecting 'Smart Tune' would clear the VE tables and any other 'Adaptive' tables that have self adjusted entries during running.

[strokerjlk]

strokerjlk: Thanks for your suggestion. I think the selecting 'Smart Tune' would clear the VE tables and any other 'Adaptive' tables that have self adjusted entries during running.

It doesn't clear the ve tables . It sets the map up to be tuned .
Doing so will alter the map so that the software can collect data .
It's gonna be leaner with smart tune activated . Therefore your decel pop may not be as bad as you are experiencing with smart tune activated .
Set your smart tuned map up for the way you want to use it when your not collecting data . ( less closed loop) then flash that map without selecting smart tune , just select reset adaptive values . Then ride it to see if the decel pop is better .

[harpwrench]

On my bike the injectors shut off on full decel, then there's a little pup-pop near the end of coast down when they turn back on. Fixable or "they all do that"? CVO 009 cal.

[fltrdes]

strokerjlk: Thanks for your suggestion. I think the selecting 'Smart Tune' would clear the VE tables and any other 'Adaptive' tables that have self adjusted entries during running.

It doesn't clear the ve tables . It sets the map up to be tuned .
Doing so will alter the map so that the software can collect data .
It's gonna be leaner with smart tune activated . Therefore your decel pop may not be as bad as you are experiencing with smart tune activated .
Set your smart tuned map up for the way you want to use it when your not collecting data . ( less closed loop) then flash that map without selecting smart tune , just select reset adaptive values . Then ride it to see if the decel pop is better .

OK, I will hook up SEPST, reset the Decel Enleanment table back to 'Original', save as 'Working', reflash ECM without selecting Smart Tune, then ride to check for changes....
Got it...

[strokerjlk]

You didn't make a very big change in your decel table . I would leave it as it is now . Just don't enable smart tune 
Harp
As long as the little pop isn't when you open the throttle back up slightly ? Then you should be able to pin point it and take it out .

[harpwrench]

Yeah it's if I don't open the throttle, almost have to do it on purpose actually, but working it out would be something to tinker with thanks. 

[fltrdes]

This is a partial list of base maps that are in my SEPST selections. The one with the arrow is the base map that was selected to flash to my ECM for the closest match to my hardware set up: 2009 Road Glide, stock motor except with SE-255 cams and Arlen Ness ig Sucker air cleaner with stock oval cover. It also has SE lifters and Quick Install push rods.
This base map was modified for 96 cu in displacement.

In your opinion, is this the best base map to start with?
I want to start out on the right foot on this tuning setup before I start smart tuning process...

[hdmanillac]

I'd prefer the 044SBN004 cal for 1800CVO 2010-2012. Just modify Engine Displacement.

[strokerjlk]

Use the 2009 touring .009 sat cal
It's a lambda cal. Modify ci/ inj constants to fit your combo .

[fltrdes]

I'd prefer the 044SBN004 cal for 1800CVO 2010-2012. Just modify Engine Displacement.

I appreciate your input, but could you please explain what the differences between my selected map and yours, for MY build?
I believe the O2 sensors are different and possibly the compression ratio as well?
What other basic map features of the 044SBN004 made you decide to use this on your '09?

[fltrdes]

Use the 2009 touring .009 sat cal
It's a lambda cal. Modify ci/ inj constants to fit your combo .

Is your suggestion due because you can select fuel quality in the lambda settings? What makes this map stand out over and above the base map I chose?

[strokerjlk]

Use the 2009 touring .009 sat cal
It's a lambda cal. Modify ci/ inj constants to fit your combo .

Is your suggestion due because you can select fuel quality in the lambda settings? What makes this map stand out over and above the base map I chose?

It's a lambda cal . Ve table is map based instead of t/p
Easier to tune and smoother running . ( especially for a street tuner ) 

[hdmanillac]

I'd prefer the 044SBN004 cal for 1800CVO 2010-2012. Just modify Engine Displacement.

I appreciate your input, but could you please explain what the differences between my selected map and yours, for MY build?
I believe the O2 sensors are different and possibly the compression ratio as well?
What other basic map features of the 044SBN004 made you decide to use this on your '09?

I don't use 044SBN004 on my bike because I use Dynojet Power Vision and this cal is for SE Pro Super Tuner.

I use the stock cal of a 1800CVO RK 13' saved with DPV. It's a 044 cal like 044SBN004. MAPE TOOTH IVO & IVC parameters are set for SE255 cams. You just have to change ci and do some smart tune sessions to get it set for your bike.

The 009 cal is also a good base cal.

[fltrdes]

I'd prefer the 044SBN004 cal for 1800CVO 2010-2012. Just modify Engine Displacement.

I appreciate your input, but could you please explain what the differences between my selected map and yours, for MY build?
I believe the O2 sensors are different and possibly the compression ratio as well?
What other basic map features of the 044SBN004 made you decide to use this on your '09?

I don't use 044SBN004 on my bike because I use Dynojet Power Vision and this cal is for SE Pro Super Tuner.

I use the stock cal of a 1800CVO RK 13' saved with DPV. It's a 044 cal like 044SBN004. MAPE TOOTH IVO & IVC parameters are set for SE255 cams. You just have to change ci and do some smart tune sessions to get it set for your bike.

The 009 cal is also a good base cal.

hdmanillac
With all due respect, brother, this thread is titled "How to use a SE pro Super Tuner for IDIOTS"
I am one of those 'IDIOTS' this thread refers too, so I expect (hope) responses here are by those with the intimate knowledge of the SEPST. I know nothing of the Powervision unit so trying to extrapolate its functions, maps, etc. and relate that to the SEPST is just confusing to me...
Thanks just the same...

strokerjlk
It's a lambda cal . Ve table is map based instead of t/p
Easier to tune and smoother running . ( especially for a street tuner )

It would be nice if I had a Dyno to run different maps with the controlled environment a Dyno offers and with a sniffer, but I don't. I would have a better understanding of what you mean by your post. Am I assuming that your abbreviation "t/p" is throttle position???
Since the thread is for idiots like myself, a better explanation of your statements would be helpful. Having had little experience with the SEPST I have no basis for comparison for "easier to tune and smoother running" from one map to another.

So far, I haven't been persuaded to change from my original flash 205UH005-001.dt0 which in the listing still sticks out with the correct year, cam selection, intake, and other parameters to set up for smart tune.
I know the fuel injectors from '09 (maybe earlier...) through '14 are the same, but the O2 sensors for '09 are different than '10 and later. I am thinking this is a significant factor for choosing the correct BASE map to start with. I also am considering that the different O2 sensors in '10 and later is the reason for lambda based settings in those base maps as well? This issue brings up a whole list of questions as well, like, what was the reason for the O2 sensor change by Harley?

[1Canuck]

2010 SG 96" stage 1
I posted previously that in 2010 the 1580 map was 009FY002.
2011 repeated, then the 2012 & 2013 included both 009FY002 & 044AAG003
so I decided to flash 044AAG003 and the base map was stronger before data runs.
on comparison of the original 009 & 044 tables no difference was found. several data runs later there was small VE changes.

Now the latest 2014 update has removed the 009FY002 map form the calibration list.

Others still using an 009 map may want to see if the 044 map benefits.

Interested if anyone knows why the 009 map was dropped

[pappy]

Not doing smart tune on the dyno is absolutely dumb.  A. Controlled temp. B. Ability to view rear afr. C. You can properly control load for all rpm ranges  D.  No possible way of breaking roadway laws due to speeding.    I guess I don't understand why those guys even have a dyno if they don't use it but mabie its because they do not know how to.  In the words of my priest "Run to the hills, run for your life".
Others may have other ideas but this I think is a decent afr table to use after smart tuning

Joe, I was wondering how this afr table would work out on a 57h. Any thoughts?

Pappy

[joe_lyons]

Should work ok.

[pappy]

I'm guessing that is what the table looks like in 14.6 mode correct?

pappy

[joe_lyons]

Yes

[pappy]

thanks

[fltrdes]

2010 SG 96" stage 1
I posted previously that in 2010 the 1580 map was 009FY002.
2011 repeated, then the 2012 & 2013 included both 009FY002 & 044AAG003
so I decided to flash 044AAG003 and the base map was stronger before data runs.
on comparison of the original 009 & 044 tables no difference was found. several data runs later there was small VE changes.

Now the latest 2014 update has removed the 009FY002 map form the calibration list.

Others still using an 009 map may want to see if the 044 map benefits.

Interested if anyone knows why the 009 map was dropped

My understanding is that there are a lot of settings in the ECM that the SEPST and other tuners do not affect and are not seen or changable. Very well could be those areas were changed with the later base map.

[1Canuck]

My understanding is that there are a lot of settings in the ECM that the SEPST and other tuners do not affect and are not seen or changable. Very well could be those areas were changed with the later base map.

I agree. Just wondering if anyone has discovered the hidden secrets. There must be a difference in the hidden files between the 009 & 044.
This still leaves one to wonder how many bikes are tuned with a 009 map no longer listed

[joe_lyons]

044 has active idle timing control and 009 does not.  Active idle timing control "helps" to stabilize idle with varying the timing +-8°.

[pappy]

044 has active idle timing control and 009 does not.  Active idle timing control "helps" to stabilize idle with varying the timing +-8°.

Joe
I'm wondering weather or not SEPST 044 cals deal with cam estimation. Not like TSS does, of course with an active input from the operator, but does the function somewhere exist, or otherwise the only difference from one 044 cal to another would be only what we see in the tables we are shown?

Form what you are saying there is certainly one function that I was unaware of and that we do not have access. I do know that the 044 cals feel a hell of a lot different from the earlier version I had.

pappy

[1Canuck]

044 has active idle timing control and 009 does not.  Active idle timing control "helps" to stabilize idle with varying the timing +-8°.

I can see this through data items. However I went further. with a print out of the spark advance table, there are numerous areas where the requested timing is not followed. Is this new? I may have to roll back the last software update as I am suspect that their may be a glitch but cannot put my finger on it.
The spark advance/retard has a number of large retards but there is no knock detected. As map goes up advance goes down.

may not be something new, just not noticed

[strokerjlk]

044 has active idle timing control and 009 does not.  Active idle timing control "helps" to stabilize idle with varying the timing +-8°.

I can see this through data items. However I went further. with a print out of the spark advance table, there are numerous areas where the requested timing is not followed. Is this new? I may have to roll back the last software update as I am suspect that their may be a glitch but cannot put my finger on it.
The spark advance/retard has a number of large retards but there is no knock detected. As map goes up advance goes down.

may not be something new, just not noticed

no its nothing new . thats the reason I dont use 044 cals.

[1Canuck]

The 009 for 10-13 touring is no longer in the tuning files. The latest update removed it?
I looked at 009 recordings and the occasional spark dip & map rise occurs with steady rpm & speed.

chalk it down to the hidden files making corrections behind the scene.

[pappy]

I was not sure weather to start a new thread or not but chose here because I am an idiot.

My question is what does the super tuner actually mean when that say match your cam to the closes of the screamin eagle base calibrations. On which number is the closest match to consider.
I'm questioning this because although TTS has labeled calibrations as applying to a specific cam in part of their literature they also refer to the lift and duration in other parts. So is it lift, duration, intake valve closing degree, or other timing?

Pappy

[1Canuck]

The HD tuners expect you to use their cams. Therefore you start with the base cal which is closest though not exact. you said Andrews 57 in an earlier post, others may suggest something else I say the SE204 is close enough.
If I knew what bike/engine you have I could suggest the cal to start with

[pappy]

1Canuck
2011 Road King 103" SE Ventilator Andrews, 57H, V&H Power Duals, Crusher Mellows
Yes the se204 does seems the closest in timing but not in lift.

Pappy

[1Canuck]

You may find one closer as said. 044SDH004 is the only choice for SE204

[attachment removed after 60 days by system]

[BUBBIE]

I'm wondering?  Will I loose my original 009 map if I hook my SEPT in the computer? (been reading of Problems on doing this) I really have tune running top Notch right now. I don't need to change anything. If HD can change My files to Update, That would Not be what I'd want.
I have opened the tuning program in the PC but it will say I need an Up date. Clicking on Up Date and Nothing happens. I must need my cable to sept and computer hooked up? 

signed....BUBBIE

[1Canuck]

just save the 009 file to a folder somewhere else in the computer than where the software goes to look
you may want to save a copy of the base 009 too as the one I used before is no longer listed

[dynablack07]

THE SE update does not require the VCI to be connected, but older version's don't fail to update ( 3.x ). I found that with newer versions ( 7.x ) that the map I had been running 176PI005, can no longer be flashed to the ECM,, I get a message that a improved map 176PI006 must be used..

[strokerjlk]

I'm wondering?  Will I loose my original 009 map if I hook my SEPT in the computer? (been reading of Problems on doing this) I really have tune running top Notch right now. I don't need to change anything. If HD can change My files to Update, That would Not be what I'd want.
I have opened the tuning program in the PC but it will say I need an Up date. Clicking on Up Date and Nothing happens. I must need my cable to sept and computer hooked up? 

signed....BUBBIE

when you open up the software and it asks to update ,you have to have a internet connection to update.
when you hook up the vci ,it will say it needs to be updated as well. you don't need a internet connection to update the vci.

when doing the updates to the software, it wont affect any cal. you have saved.
it will change some of the factory canned maps ,that you have never re named .
so if you like a canned map that you tuned off of , and want to keep it as it was from the factory ,just open it and re name it .
if your worried about losing any map you have previously saved , it wont ever do that with a update .

[BUBBIE]

Thanks Guys...

Good to know. The re-name is the way I went to start with. At least added 0000 to the end.

I Imagine that will work.

signed....BUBBIE

[BUBBIE]

044 has active idle timing control and 009 does not.  Active idle timing control "helps" to stabilize idle with varying the timing +-8°.

009SAH002-01.dt0 ...... SAVED TO;  009SAH002-0100000.dt0

With my 009 map based set and running GOOD, fuel changed @ 20 kPa over to 60 kPa, full Block over and down to 2000RPM set at 13.9... 

Even with engine temp (C) and RPM modified for the Cold Idle, I CAN feel the need for some Auto timing changes...
Nothing really drastic felt BUT on first cold start-up, Even in the Warm mornings here in Az.

I might have to give a little throttle twist to smooth out the idle (catch it) once or twice after first started then in 20 seconds, all is fine.
I usually let it run for a full minute or two before I easily ride off...

signed....BUBBIE

[strokerjlk]

044 has active idle timing control and 009 does not.  Active idle timing control "helps" to stabilize idle with varying the timing +-8°.

I can see this through data items. However I went further. with a print out of the spark advance table, there are numerous areas where the requested timing is not followed. Is this new? I may have to roll back the last software update as I am suspect that their may be a glitch but cannot put my finger on it.
The spark advance/retard has a number of large retards but there is no knock detected. As map goes up advance goes down.

may not be something new, just not noticed

spark temp corrections are still operating . with no control from the user
PE spark and PE fuel has no control from the user either ,but is still operating .
this is why you will see your requested timing differ .its either being pulled because of temp or holding the throttle wide open
or as Joe said it is the auto adj. of the 044 cal.
there is nothing we can do about spark temp or PE. but the auto correct isnt in a 009 cal.

[1Canuck]

Thanks Strokerjlk

[BUBBIE]

Not doing smart tune on the dyno is absolutely dumb.  A. Controlled temp. B. Ability to view rear afr. C. You can properly control load for all rpm ranges  D.  No possible way of breaking roadway laws due to speeding.    I guess I don't understand why those guys even have a dyno if they don't use it but mabie its because they do not know how to.  In the words of my priest "Run to the hills, run for your life".
Others may have other ideas but this I think is a decent afr table to use after smart tuning

Joe,

Looking at My old thread and see something I want to try... Your above Settings for open and closed Loop...

I see your MAP has an 85 where as MY MAP has a 75 instead...

What do you suggest to do when I Copy to MY MAP (kPa) Having NO 85? (Wing-it?)

or just go straight across and do it like it Stands....

Here at 4400 feet like GMR said...... "Doubt if he'll see anything above 70    85-90 kPa on any good day...

I'm going to Just try this in my 009SAH002-01.dt0  (2010-11) or should I try it in the Other stock MAP I have?  #205UH005.dt0 ? ( '09)

PM sent to Joe_Lyons for an answer...

signed....BUBBIE

Corrected what GMR said....  don't know where I got the 70 number 90 was meant...

Hope Jim comes back... His Box is FULL so Hopefully...

[strokerjlk]

Look at a wot data log and see what your kpa is .
If you truely only see 70 kpa . Then you want it in open loop at 13.0 like joes 100 kpa , because that would be your WOT kpa . You would never hit 75 kpa with your reasoning so you would set it at 13.0 also .
I would like to see you log and see what your actual Kpa range is .

[BUBBIE]

Jim,

Corrected information.... GMR said 85-90

signed....BUBBIE

[joe_lyons]

Then yes make 85-90 13.0. I would not use the cal made for 2010+ in a 2009 bike because of the o2 sensor heaters.  Use the 205 cal and go from there.  I would just keep closed loop from 40-70kpa.  The closed loop section on the far left at 20kpa was a oops on my behalf as I like to have as lean as possible before the bold numbers pop up.  Jim is right in that a log of some spirited riding would give us a good idea of where your idle, cruise, decell and heavy load KPA is at.

[whittlebeast]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/88/Atmospheric_Pressure_vs._Altitude.png

Keep in mind the the altitude is in meters.  But at any given altitude, that chart will come real close to giving your WOT MAP reading in a log.

For example Denver is close to 6000 feet or 2000 meters.  Find on the bottom 2000, move up to the curve and then over to find 80 kpa.  In denver, you will never get over 80 kpa.

Hope this helps

[BUBBIE]

Thanks for the above link...

Looks like I'm about strong 80-90 like GRM said...

signed....BUBBIE

[strokerjlk]

Thanks for the above link...

Looks like I'm about strong 80-90 like GRM said...

signed....BUBBIE

if you data log you will know what you're actually dealing with.

[BUBBIE]

Trying the again... 009SAH002.dt0...

Need to check the VE values for my bike on this tune.

So far the bike runs Great and looking at the Running Graph after tune in the bike, Looks good on all fronts I can see nothing jumping out. Timing functions pulled and advanced seem good on Revs... I do like the SE pro off road tuner and the PC program. Glad I have it...

I'm not looking for Perfect, just a good running 103 and I think I'm happy with the latest settings. I have had it set close to here before from a Dyno tune using this program... got lost in the stupid screwing around I did and Improper saving it out of bike.

Copy of the AFR modified table below...

signed....BUBBIE

Checking mileage on Longer runs and more normal riding= 44/46 best

[BUBBIE]

Posting the REAR VE's working on the 009 tune... to compare with the AFR changes I made. (thumbnail above)

To me? they look ok... No starving I can tell,  giving more than 100 at the needed times. Correct?

signed....BUBBIE