Gaterman GP-1023 Lifters Long Term Wear

[AllanW]

Sorry, didn't see it, thanks. Also not sure how I managed to ask 3 times, thought I was modifying it.

[BUBBIE]

 

No Problem Allen. I had to go back and look for myself and saw your question, thought I might as well post it "IF" others wanted to Know..
( Info. from FSG Post he is Usually spot-on)

signed....BUBBIE

[Admiral Akbar]

http://www.mcmaster.com/#gauge-pins/=r7uyof

Good find..

Max

[mike jesse]

Your welcome.

http://www.mcmaster.com/#gauge-pins/=r7uyof

Good find..

Max

[Admiral Akbar]

Your welcome.

http://www.mcmaster.com/#gauge-pins/=r7uyof

Good find..

Max

Sorry for the miss-directed credit.. Max

[mike jesse]

No problem Max. I still like you.

It wouldn't surprise me if Zipper's isn't doing the same thing.
I get the gauge pins in length's of 6 in. Cut what I need.
Of course I'm using them for inspection purpose's only.
Now you need to decide "plus or minus".

[FSG]

Someone would need to sell a different lifter cover... but I've been looking at these...

http://www.jegs.com/i/GM-Performance/809/12550002/10002/-1

edited: I'm a ford guy so my search started with these... I know the ford lifters are larger in diameter not sure if the lifter cuts/keepers are different than a chevy.
http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/ccrp_0710_chevy_small_block/photo_04.html

They went away from pins on the sporty, kinda makes it hard to run a directional lifter.

[q1svt]

Thanks FSG... the dog bone was used by everyone but HD on roller lifters, well until now.  Never liked the alignment pins.  Cannot image running high RPM's and 650+ lift with one.

Cannot find detail yet on S&S cases but think they run something like that too...

[clawdog60]

I plan on working with .015 max. clearance since we have lifter bore to lifter clearance to allow for also.
Has anyone checked the clearance from top of AR pin to top of lifter galley with gasket in place?

[No Cents]

good question!
I noticed the last time I had my lifter block off that the lifter block gasket looked to have the imprint of the pin on it.
Going with an over sized pin...you might have to have the bottom side of the lifter block area addressed where the pin rides up against the ridges.

[FSG]

I've not checked, yet, but if as Ray says the gasket looked to have the imprint of the pin on it you wouldn't think there was any room for them to roll in sympathy with the lifter up and down movement.

[No Cents]

Here you go FSG...here is a picture I just snapped of my old lifter block gaskets. I didn't think I threw them away.
You can clearly see on the fingers of the gasket where the imprint of the roll pin was pressed up against it.
This was with the stock HD roll pins...not over sized.

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[strokerjlk]

This has all been educational .
But what was first the chicken or the egg.
B lifters never needed oversize anti rotation pins .
Biggest question with B's was ... Change lifters at 30,000 when you swapped cams or leave the stock ones in ? because they looked like new .

[FSG]

But what was first the chicken or the egg.

another good question

B lifters never needed oversize anti rotation pins

how do we know, I for one never checked, not a once, did you

it's another one of those things that slips under the radar but once caught we find it's been there all along

[N-gin]

I'll see if I still have my old set of lifters.
I believe I still do.
I'll have to measure.
Another thing is we would have to measure the height of the lifter pin boss. This will tell us if it is tall enough to suport oversize pins. Even if the pin were to be held in place with the gasket I believe it will still turn.

Could this be the reason why all the failures. If it were as simple as a pin diameter.
So if a engine is spinning 5000 rpm how often is the lifter going up and down a second? 42 times a second? Is there enough shatter that creates a harmonic that destroys a lifter?

[strokerjlk]

But what was first the chicken or the egg.

another good question

B lifters never needed oversize anti rotation pins

how do we know, I for one never checked, not a once, did you

it's another one of those things that slips under the radar but once caught we find it's been there all along

Maybe the problem has been there all along . ( rotation)
the results we are seeing now never were a problem when B lifters were the norm.
Something has changed in the manufacturers  material and or the manufacturing process .
In the last 5 years manufacturing cost has sky rocketed , if it involves metal of any kind .
Where I work we have seen a 197% increase in metal cost . This includes precious metals .
We have went to great measures to lower cost . Part of that is testing and sourcing lower grades of metal where permitted . All along the customer and consumer can't see a increase in price .
It's happing everywhere lean is mean .

[FSG]

Even if the pin were to be held in place with the gasket I believe it will still turn.

I'm not sure they will.  The pins are downhill from the lifters so any clearance should be between the lifter flat and the pin before the cover goes on and should remain there unless the act of putting the cover on rolls them uphill.  But then again I've not measured the boss height but is it possible the mark on the gasket is from the pin rolling up against it driven by the lifter rather than compression from holding the pin down? 

[mike jesse]

FYI, I just measured that pocket depth the pin rests in.
It's .251 in.
The gasket is doing it's job holding the pin.
.001-.002 in. more on the pin diameter won't matter.

[N-gin]

FYI, I just measured that pocket depth the pin rests in.
It's .251 in.
The gasket is doing it's job holding the pin.
.001-.002 in. more on the pin diameter won't matter.

Well I have .2535, .2545, and .2555 on their way. Should be here by end of week.
I would have to check the gasket on the lifter covers I don't remember seeing a mark for the pin, but I wasn't looking neither. The pins were defiantly turning though... I'm at work now as soon as I leave I'll go in the garage and hav a looksee

[FSG]

HA!! Just lifted a cover myself, the gasket broke so I'll need to go further to replace it.

The Boss and Pin compression marks are easy to see, this pin ain't moving anywhere.   

These lifters are -99B's and a .04mm (.0015")  feeler gauge fits between the pin and the boss whereas a .06mm (.0023") will not.

So it' probably .05mm (.0019"), the pin itself measures a solid .2505".

As I have to replace this cover gasket I may replace both and drop some GP1023's into this bike at the same time, taking some measurements also.



A close examination of this pin under this lighted mag glass show no signs of ever having touched a moving lifter.

[FSG]

Blow Ray's pic up and it's easy to see the boss compression marks as well

[mike jesse]

Mine looks the same FSG.
Has this turned into the mountain or the mole hill?

[FSG]

Yes.  But I now know more than I did before this thread started.   

[04 SE Deuce]

FWIW not an extreme/severe duty application,  factory installed stock B lifters and 203 cams with stock springs went 80K quiet miles in my bike with very little sign of wear to lifters or cam before lifters were replaced.   Rick

[mike jesse]

Yes.  But I now know more than I did before this thread started.   

Your right. Gotta have some fun though.