What Carb is this?

[RoadGlideRob]

Ok,  Shovelhead newbie question .  I've got a carb that says AMF|Harley Davidson on it and Made in Japan with some wierd fat K.  No part numbers no other markings.  Could you guys help figure out what this is so i can get a rebuild kit for it?

Dont have pic's cause I'm at work.  If needed I'll take some and post tonight.

Thanks

[76shuvlinoff]

Keihin?

[RoadGlideRob]

thats what i thought but wanted to make sure.  Do you know if the rebuild kits for these are the same for all Keihin carbs? 

[loneman]

The rebuild kits usually contain 17 parts and fit all Keihin carbs from 1976-89 except CV carbs.

[CraigArizona85248]

The rebuild kits are not all the same.  There are at least two types of Keihin carbs that Harley used.  Butterfly and CV.  The CV was used from the late 80's until 2006.  The Butterfly is the type that would have come on a shovelhead.  I'm not that familiar with Keihin Butterfly carbs ... check the parts book to see if they offer multiple rebuild kits for the Butterfly carb.

-Craig

[panz4ever]

76-89 were Keihin non-CV, 90 , I thought, started the CV type. Not sure what the rebuild kits contain but things like but things like main and slow jet sizing changed thru the years as well as some of the torque specifications.

[MMOCGuy]

Rob.

If your bike is a '76 or newer Shovelhead, the stock carb was a butterfly Keihin. Prior to '76, they were Bendix. The older Shovelhead (Generator motors) were Zeniths). Harley used the butterfly Keihin from 1976 up until 1989 but started using the CV Keihins on some models in 1988. The rebuild kits for the butterly keihins are the same for all years ('76 - '89). Just make sure you order the one for the butterfly carb.

Hope this helps.

Norm.

[243ron]

Do yourself a favor, crush that carb and put on a Bendix or a newer Kiehn.

[RoadGlideRob]

The bike is a 73 FX but I bought it as a basket case and there seems to be alot of different year parts on it.  Which is probably to be expected.  Would a picture help?  I can post one today if it would.

[RoadGlideRob]

Ok, so after doing some research... it appears that I probably dont have a CV carb seeings how mine is still single throttle cable.  I have found several Keihin CV carbs on ebay.  Will any of these work on an old shovel?  for examle one was off a 96 FL.  Also found one off a 78 but was an andrews flowmaster???  has that been converted to CV?

[76shuvlinoff]

 Go with the Keihin CV

I am not a tuner but I put a 1996 CV on my 76. For me it is leaps and bounds over the stock butterfly K9. It's no slouch but not a drag racing carb. However it starts better, idles smoother, has better throttle response and is generally much better behaved.  Finding one that has not be molested is the toughest part and make sure you get one with an accelerator pump. There are throat adapters on ebay, I suggest the press-on metal one. I also needed a 96 and up throttle assembly.

You will not regret it.

[loneman]

76shuvlinuff,

Go with the Keihin CV

I am not a tuner but I put a 1996 CV on my 76. For me it is leaps and bounds over the stock butterfly K9. It's no slouch but not a drag racing carb. However it starts better, idles smoother, has better throttle response and is generally much better behaved.  Finding one that has not be molested is the toughest part and make sure you get one with an accelerator pump. There are throat adapters on ebay, I suggest the press-on metal one. I also needed a 96 and up throttle assembly.

You will not regret it.

I was recently "gifted" a CV carb by a biker buddy. It is a brand new take-off so it has the throttle assembly. I was hoping to put it on my 1980 FLT, but I don't know about these throat adapters and why they are necessary. Could you explain for us newbies?

Thanks,
loneman

[76shuvlinoff]

 Loneman
First off I've only had that CV on less than a year so in all honesty I'm a newbie myself. There are guys here much more qualified than I am but I appreciate the confidence.

I can tell you about MY cv though.  The rear of the carb is a straight thru tube instead of having a flange that would bolt to the intake. On ebay there are press on metal adapters that come with installation instructions. You press them on with a little JB Weld for sealer and you have a very solid method for bolting the carb to your intake.  I understand there are soft adapters on ebay too but from what I've read here the metal one is considered better. You still need to use a carb support bracket of some kind to protect your intake seals.

The beauty of this site is if I've missed something here someone will speak up soon and correct it or maybe offer a better explanation.

Mark

   

[loneman]

Thanks Mark. I know I'm going to have some other questions as I go along, but you guys are always great at sharing information.  I love this site. I will open up a new thread when the time comes to actually install the thing. I didn't mean to hog RoadGlideRob's thread.

loneman

[MMOCGuy]

On the old HTT site, UltraShovel posted directions on using a CV Carb. In it he included jetting recommendations. I don't know if he is still around on this site but, if he is, maybe he can post it again. If not, I have it saved in MS Word format. I don't want to post someone else's writings here unless I have his approval to do so but I think it would be OK to email it.

Hope this helps.

Norm.

[RoadGlideRob]

No worries Loneman.    I actually had the same question.  Buddy of mine found this on ebay and I was hoping Shuvlin could let us know if this will do the trick.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/SHOVELHEAD-IRONHEAD-SPORTSTER-CV-CARBURATOR-INTAKE-KT_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp3286Q2em20Q2el1116QQitemZ260294517873QQptZMotorcyclesQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

[dave_9113]

Roadglidebob,

What Shuvlin is saying is right on.  If you are going to put the Keikin CV on your shovel, it will like it very much. 
When buying one, look for '93 or newer because they have an accelerator pump.  You can tell because there's a blue tag on the carb body that has numbers like....24589-95 (or something like that, meaning 1995 carb).  A good starting point for Shovel jetting is 50/190 and 1.5 turns out on fuel/air mixture.  That's the screw that you have to drill out the "cover plate" on an unmolested CV carb (bottom side towards engine on carb). 

Buy the metal flange press on type and do what Shuvlin noted.  Be sure you get the holes vertical, so it mounts exactly onto the manifold.  You may or may not want to use the fiber spacer, depending on how much you want the carb to stick out.  You can use most compatible air cleaners as long as you make it fit.  Some guys are real creative.   Also, you can run just one throttle cable because the return spring is plenty strong.

One last thing, be careful when you take off the 4 short phillips screw to split the carb body in order to replace the jets, because they strip easily and are on there tight, if they've never been touched.

Good luck.  Sorry for bouncing around, but you will enjoy the CV for it's function for the price. 

dave   

[flhtcu2007]

assuming that a 1996 kehin cv carb is 40mm which of these 2 adapters is best?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/HARLEY-DAVIDSON-CV-40MM-CARBURETOR-SHOVELHEAD-FLANGE_W0QQitemZ280320886431QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotorcycles_Parts_Accessories?hash=item280320886431&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245&_trkparms=72%3A1171%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318

or

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/SHOVELHEAD-IRONHEAD-SPORTSTER-CV-CARBURATOR-INTAKE-KT_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp3286Q2em20Q2el1116QQitemZ260294517873QQptZMotorcyclesQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

[flhtcu2007]

also for those of you who have made this modification what are you using for the head to aircleaner bracket? Will an S&S bracket work for this? Just trying to undertsand the whole installation of this changeover and see what the easiest way is.

[76shuvlinoff]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/HARLEY-DAVIDSON-CV-40MM-CARBURETOR-SHOVELHEAD-FLANGE_W0QQitemZ280320886431QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotorcycles_Parts_Accessories?hash=item280320886431&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245&_trkparms=72%3A1171|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318

This is what I used except mine did not have the O ring cut into it like this one. I had to make a gasket for mine and this looks like a better deal.  A little JB weld, a press (or mallet if you have to) and a good eye you'll be good to go. Make sure your mounting bolts are not too long and end up against the carb body.  BTW I would avoid the mallet if possible.

I hate to reveal my ignorance but yes I do think my 1996 stock cv is 40mm. 

I used the old strap from the head to secure the carb.
I heated it up and bent it until it touched the backing plate. Actually I think there was a hole already there that lined up with it, if not just drill it.  I polished the strap back up with a buffer and it was good to go.
I wanted a little bling so I replaced the plastic top cover with a chrome one and replaced all the phillips screws with sockethead cap screws because I wrecked most of them just taking the carb apart to check the jetting and needle.     I think the chrome sockethead cap screw kit came from Jireh or JP  I got a needle from ArizonaCraig that seems to work great. My stock round air cleaner fit just right. At one time I had pics stored on the old HTT Managers site and on another computer but the site is gone and I'm on a laptop right now.

All I have to say is it must be damn simple if I can do it.

Norm I remember Ultras tuning document but I lost it.


  Mark


edit to add:  there is a big difference between the bore of the adapter and the E manifold I bolted it to, The manifold ID is bigger than the carb bore, almost disturbingly so. I figured there's be a pressure drop and gas puddling there. Well if there is I have not noticed it. I put 50 and 190 jetting in it and I think I might go to 200 just to see what happens.  I wish I could remember the numbers on the needle but maybe Craig does. This is not a drag racing carb but on my fatass FLH 93" shovel it ate my buddies evo Fatboy's lunch. He got the launch but at the end of 3rd gear he was enjoying my Thunderheader. Maybe he was having a bad day... 

Sorry, long winded but one more thing...  For the record I am no pro and everything I leaned about my cv and for that matter my shovel, I learned from the folks on this site and the manual.

[flhtcu2007]

thanks a ton. At first glance I thought the second was better but I see the benefits of the first now. Thanks for the input. That sounds like a great setup!!! I ecspecially appreciatte the mentioning of the carb bracket and how you made it. The setup is stock heads, cylinders and jugs with an H grind cam. Gonna be straight pipes so I'm wondering about the jetting. I know the lowend power that is lost with the open pipes. anyone have any sucess with welding washers in straight pipes to regain the lowend power. Anyone have any specs on that setup? Thanks so much for the replies.

[96flhpi]

76 - if it's not a hassle could you post pics of your A/C.  The only thing keeping me from pulling the trigger on a CV is I really want to keep that 7 inch round A/C.  I assume that's what you mean by stock.  It looks like the CV carb would be too big to sit in the backing plate like the butterfly does, if you know what I mean, but then again I don't have a CV on hand to experiment with.

Thanks.

[MMOCGuy]

76,

Craig also made a post on the old HTT site that had jetting recommendations for various engine configurations. Maybe he would be willing to post it again. (How about it Craig? ).

With all I've said about it, I have to admit that I can't verify anything because my bike is still in the process of construction. I won't be installing my CV carb until I get the bike back together.

Hope this helps.

Norm.

[76shuvlinoff]

I climbed up on the telephone pole, fired the old PC, oiled the spring, and fed the hamster.







enrichener out the other side

[76shuvlinoff]

 using cv back plate, bolt on right lines up with support, one on left is just a dummy filling a hole



I can't believe I don't have a straight on shot of filter or 7" cover but here's one showing that it really doesn't interfere with my knee. This is the best I can do, hope it helps.

[flhtcu2007]

that was really cool of you to post the pics. Thanks a ton!

[96flhpi]

Thanks a lot!  From what I can see it doesn't seem to stick out much farther than the butterfly, if at all.  Thanks again!

[76shuvlinoff]

No problem, btw the carb is mounted straight up and down... but it appears the guy with the camera was a bit skewed...

[RoadGlideRob]

Thanks to all who posted on this thread!   You saved me $500 as I was going to go get an S&S to replace the old carb.

Once again HTT community comes through.  What a bunch of great brothers I've never met!   

[loneman]

You can say that again RoadGlide. As soon as I sell some of the crap I bought on ebay and buy what I really need to do this conversion, I hope to be money ahead too. 

You guys are awesome. Thanks for sharing. If I can ever figure out how to adjust my picture sizes to the meet the limits, and then figure out how to upload them, I will finally post a picture of my sled.

After looking at Mark's pictures I noticed two things: (1) that I will needs to buy an enricher cable, and (2) that one of you guys will have to explain to me why the vacuum line that is plugged off could be used on a shovel, and if so, what would be the advantages/disadvantages. Thanks,

loneman

[flhtcu2007]

76.... Was that a stock HD carb to head bracket you heated and bent or was it an S&S bracket? Just curious because it looks very good!
Thanks!
-James

[76shuvlinoff]

James,
I don't honestly remember, I think when I got the carb it came with a bracket to go to the case bolt below it so that may be the stock bracket. All I did was change the angles at the ends a little.

  Mark

[flhtcu2007]

thank you very much! Very very good information!

[MMOCGuy]

Well,

I don't know if Craig is still around or away from the site, or ? ? ? ? But, I have the information that he posted re: starting points for the jetting for various engine configurations. Again, I don't want to publish his writing without his permission. Another "Again" - I don't see anything wrong with sharing via direct email so, if anyone is interested, email me directly and I'll send it to you. If you send me your email address via the HTT site messaging system, I'll send it direct or else I'll send it return via the HTT site messaging system.

Craig, if you see this and OK my posting your info, say so and I'll post it for all.

Norm.

[CraigArizona85248]

Feel free to post it Norm.  The way I see it, anything I post is public domain once I post it in a forum like this.

-Craig

[MMOCGuy]

Thanks Craig.

OK Guys, here it is.

Norm.

===========================================================

CV Carb tuning posted by Craig

I see lots of questions about jetting the CV40 for panhead, shovelhead, and knucklehead 74" motors.  I thought I'd post my jetting info here so that it's easy to reference:

**Keep in mind these numbers are just for reference.  Your jetting will very depending on pipes, aircleaner, head modifications, etc.

PANHEAD:
Slow Jet: #50
Main Jet: #175
Needle Jet: 0.115
Needle Type: N86E
Idle Mix Location: 2 turns

Engine Specs:
Displacement: 74c.i. +0.060
Cam: Crane 296A
Compression: 8.5:1
Exhaust: Free Flowing (upsweeps with 22" baffles)

SHOVELHEAD (recommendations from those who have done it, not my personal experience):
Same at Panhead except the following:
Main Jet: #170

KNUCKLEHEAD (recommendations from those who have done it, not my personal experience):
Same at Panhead except the following:
Slow Jet: #48
Main Jet: #180

Kent (1992Fatty) from HTT posted this info about CV40 jet and needle part numbers.  Great info I didn't want to lose so I'm posting it here.
Jet Needle
Part Number   Jet Needle    
27175-90                N72R           Rich
27176-90            (CA Only)           V
27178-90               N72S              V
27179-90            (CA Only)           V
27184-92               N86F              V
27186-92               N86E              V
27280-92               (CA Only)         Lean
27094-88      1988 1200 Sportster    


Pilot Jet
Part Number
(Slow Jet)   Jet Size    
27165-90                 48        Rich
27170-89                 45          V
27171-89                 42          V
27281-92                 40          V
27117-88                 35         Lean

 
Main Jet
Part Number
(High Speed)   Jet Size    
27105-88                200          Rich
27185-90                185            V
27114-88                180            V
27090-89                175            V
27115-88                170            V
27116-88                165            V
27152-89                160            V
27154-89                155          Lean