Thundermax map help.

[03NhHarley]

So for starters my build is

Hillside 117
10.5 comp
Stage IV heads
S&S 585g cams
S&S roller rockers
HPI 51mm 1.800 manifold
HPI 5.3 injectors
Thunderheader.

Ive tried 2 maps one runs good but doesnt have the punch that it should. (793) and map 812 which has great power and runs great but sometimes will stall coming up to a stop light and it starts like "Potty mouth" hot or cold. There arent many maps for 5.3 injectors. the ones they do have are for 124 with much bigger cams that i am using.

Map 812 is for
113" engine using 4.375 stroke
HD CVO ported heads with 2.0/1.62 valves
Thunderheader
54mm throttle body with 4.89 inj.
redshift 657 cam

I thought this map would be close as everything is similar except the injectors are 4.89 vs my 5.3 and the cam has the cam intake close.

map 793 is
106" 10:1 4.375" stroke
s&s 585 cams
5.12 injectors
Fat cat
52mm throttle body
ported heads.

I loaded map 812 and it kept stalling so i reloaded map 793 and now it runs terrible.

[q1svt]

I'ld try to fine a zippers cam thats is ... RS 577?

Since you like trying maps I would try map 872 closes @ 47 and correct for the 5.3 (4.9) injectors... just take your time to allow the tune to sync up to the 113ci

or
try map 869 correct for injector and again take is slow to allow the tune to sync up for the 113ci.  It for 10.5+ compression

I tried a number of maps and the ones for the  zipper muscle seem to produce the bigger power.... believe that they ran them on the dyno for their builds and many of the others are derived.

[Admiral Akbar]

So for starters my build is

Hillside 117
10.5 comp
Stage IV heads
S&S 585g cams
S&S roller rockers
HPI 51mm 1.800 manifold
HPI 5.3 injectors
Thunderheader.

Ive tried 2 maps one runs good but doesnt have the punch that it should. (793) and map 812 which has great power and runs great but sometimes will stall coming up to a stop light and it starts like "Potty mouth" hot or cold. There arent many maps for 5.3 injectors. the ones they do have are for 124 with much bigger cams that i am using.

Map 812 is for
113" engine using 4.375 stroke
HD CVO ported heads with 2.0/1.62 valves
Thunderheader
54mm throttle body with 4.89 inj.
redshift 657 cam

I thought this map would be close as everything is similar except the injectors are 4.89 vs my 5.3 and the cam has the cam intake close.

map 793 is
106" 10:1 4.375" stroke
s&s 585 cams
5.12 injectors
Fat cat
52mm throttle body
ported heads.

I loaded map 812 and it kept stalling so i reloaded map 793 and now it runs terrible.

Not sure what you did but if you get the idle stop setting off a bit the bike will run like crap... On a trip I did, I go into the habit of starting the bikes with me pulling on the front brake.. It open the throttle a little.. 3 starts and the bike ran like crap.. I stopped hold the brake or at least made sure the throttle was rolled all the way off when turning in the ignition.. Problem went away.. Clear learned offset and do the on/off initializing sequence..  You should probably do that for every map change...

Max


Also make sure you didn't blow off the little rubber cap on the side of the throttle body..

Max

[7hogs]

What year and model is your bike

[03NhHarley]

What year and model is your bike

03 Electra glide.

[03NhHarley]

I'ld try to fine a zippers cam thats is ... RS 577?

Since you like trying maps I would try map 872 closes @ 47 and correct for the 5.3 (4.9) injectors... just take your time to allow the tune to sync up to the 113ci

or
try map 869 correct for injector and again take is slow to allow the tune to sync up for the 113ci.  It for 10.5+ compression

I tried a number of maps and the ones for the  zipper muscle seem to produce the bigger power.... believe that they ran them on the dyno for their builds and many of the others are derived.

How do i correct for injectors? Seems like the SE 4.89 injectors are popular on the t-max.

So for starters my build is

Hillside 117
10.5 comp
Stage IV heads
S&S 585g cams
S&S roller rockers
HPI 51mm 1.800 manifold
HPI 5.3 injectors
Thunderheader.

Ive tried 2 maps one runs good but doesnt have the punch that it should. (793) and map 812 which has great power and runs great but sometimes will stall coming up to a stop light and it starts like "Potty mouth" hot or cold. There arent many maps for 5.3 injectors. the ones they do have are for 124 with much bigger cams that i am using.

Map 812 is for
113" engine using 4.375 stroke
HD CVO ported heads with 2.0/1.62 valves
Thunderheader
54mm throttle body with 4.89 inj.
redshift 657 cam

I thought this map would be close as everything is similar except the injectors are 4.89 vs my 5.3 and the cam has the cam intake close.

map 793 is
106" 10:1 4.375" stroke
s&s 585 cams
5.12 injectors
Fat cat
52mm throttle body
ported heads.

I loaded map 812 and it kept stalling so i reloaded map 793 and now it runs terrible.

Not sure what you did but if you get the idle stop setting off a bit the bike will run like crap... On a trip I did, I go into the habit of starting the bikes with me pulling on the front brake.. It open the throttle a little.. 3 starts and the bike ran like crap.. I stopped hold the brake or at least made sure the throttle was rolled all the way off when turning in the ignition.. Problem went away.. Clear learned offset and do the on/off initializing sequence..  You should probably do that for every map change...

Max


Also make sure you didn't blow off the little rubber cap on the side of the throttle body..

Max

I do the IAC relearn everytime i change maps. But i deffinalty know what you mean about holding the brake  when starting as my neutral light doesnt work at the moment. Strange part is it idles great on 1 map and not the other. So i put the good idling lower power map in and it ran terrible. coughing all the time nasty lean pops. Strange because i put 500 miles on this map before and it ran very good. I changed maps because it seemed to be lacking power. With map 812 it ran awsome even idled good most of the time but every couple stops i would be down shifting then pull in the clutch to stop and it woud quit. Then have to crank and crank and crank to restart. I also dont  belive the hpi throttle body had the rubber cap but i will look.

[Admiral Akbar]

The 793 maps uses a shorter injector PW duration over most  of the PW maps compared to the 812.. IIRC it is better to let the motor start out a little rich and let the tmax lean it out so you are better with the 812..It will learn that map faster.. Did you save the 793 map after the 500 miles just to see what it was doing?   The IAC step versus temp for the 812 is much less than the 793 so I'd make sure the IAC learn took and was programmed into the unit..

Max

[Admiral Akbar]

BTW,, You can collect the data and send it to thundermax and tell them what is going on.. Not sure if they even care is you were the original purchaser or whether it is still under warranty..

Max

[03NhHarley]

BTW,, You can collect the data and send it to thundermax and tell them what is going on.. Not sure if they even care is you were the original purchaser or whether it is still under warranty..

Max

I did not save the data from map 793. Still new to this and figuring it out. I am the org buyer the unit is #309-460 and its only 2 months old. I bought it from Cycle Soloutions as they do dyno tunes at bike week and will be in Laconia. So i just need to get it running nice so i can ride till then when they will do everything.

I'm going to put 812 back in and try bumping the idle up to aroudn 1000 rpm for now and see if it helps. Plus make sure the throttle is closed all the way for the IAC learn like Max said. Is there any way of adjusting for my bike using bigger injectors than the map?

[7hogs]

2006 street glide I'm running map 855 and my injectors are 5.3

map 824 looks like a good starting point and the map I would have started with. Here is a  copy of my map running

117
662-2
58 HPI 5.3
CS M pipes w/modified baffle
11.1 comp


[attachment removed after 60 days by system]

[q1svt]

BTW,, You can collect the data and send it to thundermax and tell them what is going on.. Not sure if they even care is you were the original purchaser or whether it is still under warranty..

Max

I did not save the data from map 793. Still new to this and figuring it out. I am the org buyer the unit is #309-460 and its only 2 months old. I bought it from Cycle Soloutions as they do dyno tunes at bike week and will be in Laconia. So i just need to get it running nice so i can ride till then when they will do everything.

I'm going to put 812 back in and try bumping the idle up to aroudn 1000 rpm for now and see if it helps. Plus make sure the throttle is closed all the way for the IAC learn like Max said. Is there any way of adjusting for my bike using bigger injectors than the map?

In the top drop downs open 'Tools', then select 'Injector Size Compensation'
enter 4.89 then 5.3

[itsafatboy]

i would use the 824 also ,  real close

[03NhHarley]

I acually looked at 824 but i thought i needed to use a map for a 4.375" stroke crank

[Admiral Akbar]

BTW,, You can collect the data and send it to thundermax and tell them what is going on.. Not sure if they even care is you were the original purchaser or whether it is still under warranty..

Max

I did not save the data from map 793. Still new to this and figuring it out. I am the org buyer the unit is #309-460 and its only 2 months old. I bought it from Cycle Soloutions as they do dyno tunes at bike week and will be in Laconia. So i just need to get it running nice so i can ride till then when they will do everything.

I'm going to put 812 back in and try bumping the idle up to aroudn 1000 rpm for now and see if it helps. Plus make sure the throttle is closed all the way for the IAC learn like Max said. Is there any way of adjusting for my bike using bigger injectors than the map?

You can do the "send data" to thunder-max and see what they say.. They are very good at diagnosing issues if there are any.. Something like 90% of the problems is something else wrong with the bike.. Those guys have enough experience that they can tell you things, like weak fuel pressure, manifold leaks, bad TPS, head temp and more... 

Max

[q1svt]

yeah, they have additional tables and data...

The stalling with map 812 may be caused by not correcting the injector fuel rate before... By sending your data/map to them you can ask them to also correct the map for the details of the HPI injector spray pattern along with the 5.3 flow rate.  IIRC HD 4.9's are 8* and the HD 5.3's are 25*, HPI doesn't say directly on theirs.

'HPI; Our injectors feature a specifically engineered spray pattern that optimizes fuel atomization.'

[03NhHarley]

Just a little update. I have been using map 812 as i liked it. i used the 'Injector Size Compensation' thanks q1svt It has been running great. It been idling pretty good hoping it will get better with more riding time. Every so often i get a lean pop on decel but not bad. I did bump the idle up 1 click but have since moved it back down. It drops low every so often then will bring itself back up and idle fine. its set at 976 i think it was now. Still starts hard. Usually have to twist the throttle and keep it running for the first few seconds then it will idle on its own when i first start it in the morning or after sitting for a while.

[q1svt]

Just a little update. I have been using map 812 as i liked it. i used the 'Injector Size Compensation' thanks q1svt It has been running great. It been idling pretty good hoping it will get better with more riding time. Every so often i get a lean pop on decel but not bad. I did bump the idle up 1 click but have since moved it back down. It drops low every so often then will bring itself back up and idle fine. its set at 976 i think it was now. Still starts hard. Usually have to twist the throttle and keep it running for the first few seconds then it will idle on its own when i first start it in the morning or after sitting for a while.

I tried playing with the 'Cranking Fuel' at starting... with no luck.  The up/down I believe TMax is using data from more than one cell at a time.

What worked for me was increasing the timing on either side of and at the closed TPS position 1-3* overall, between just over cold & just below  hot idle.
Map 812 that's 1536 (1293 actual) & 768 (976 actual)

hook the bike up and turn on 'Monitor' while in the Timing vs TPS 1280 page, note where the TPS is at (for my bike it's 14.076).  make the three the same if different then add 1* more (left, [tps closed position]center, & right).  do the same thing to the other rpm's range noted above (your not making them the same timing, just the three the same, plus 1 to what the closed TPS was for THAT RPM range).

Then each time I start the bike if it's cranks a little long I add +1 to the three positions for the rpm range e.g. if started cold to the 1536 & 1280, If it was hot then 768 & 1024...

For my idle range I have three rpm ranges for the three positions at the closed position (left, center, right):
@ 768 rpm my timing is 15*
@1024 rpm my timing is 19*
@ 1280 rpm my timing is 20*

You can save a map before you start this... but the Yellow boxes will still show your changes and it's easier to move them back so you will not loose the Leaned Fuel in all of the other rpm's 

[03NhHarley]

Ok so i changed the injector size to 5.3 and it runs great but still having the idle issues. It seems like a bad IAC. It does not high idle when cold either. It sees as tho the IAC is not doing anything so i bought a new one. I started the bike and it idled at 2500 rpm then went up cto about 2800. So i shut it down the clear all the learned fuel settings then did the iac relearn. I pulled the air filter and saw the valve move once. Now it is the same as before and will not idle. I emailed thundermax tonight. Hopefully they can help.

[Admiral Akbar]

Ok so i changed the injector size to 5.3 and it runs great but still having the idle issues. It seems like a bad IAC. It does not high idle when cold either. It sees as tho the IAC is not doing anything so i bought a new one. I started the bike and it idled at 2500 rpm then went up cto about 2800. So i shut it down the clear all the learned fuel settings then did the iac relearn. I pulled the air filter and saw the valve move once. Now it is the same as before and will not idle. I emailed thundermax tonight. Hopefully they can help.

You may have issues with the wiring to the IAC motor.. You should be able to see what is going on by connecting a laptop and running in monitor mode.. Monitor IAC steps.. See where they are going.. If it goes to a real low value and the bike is running fast, the IAC may not be under control.. Also look for manifold leaks, Blown off cap from the throttle body.  Look at the throttle blade make sure it is closing all the way..

IN monitor mode you may want to check the stability of the tps output.. It will dance around a little but should be semi stable when running. If it is bouncing say,  above 10 degrees, replace it..

Max

[q1svt]

Ok so i changed the injector size to 5.3 and it runs great but still having the idle issues. It seems like a bad IAC. It does not high idle when cold either. It sees as tho the IAC is not doing anything so i bought a new one. I started the bike and it idled at 2500 rpm then went up cto about 2800. So i shut it down the clear all the learned fuel settings then did the iac relearn. I pulled the air filter and saw the valve move once. Now it is the same as before and will not idle. I emailed thundermax tonight. Hopefully they can help.

03NhHarley, wondered what the resolution was....

[1931jamesw]

Also monitor and check connection of engine temp sensor and the map settings related to temp. That was the problem that Gordon here on the forum had with his. The map was messed up in the temp table. It made a drastic jump with just a small change in temp and was causing similar problems.