My turn for the stator skillset yet No Smell of Burnt Varnish, what gives?

[flhs90]

10:32 am PST Tues. March 10 update.

Sipping coffee, fire just built, went outside and pulled the derby inspection cover. Tried to smell for the burnt "varnish" test. Nothing but the smell of Torco/ Spectro blend (that's what I had on hand) of high quality Primary/Chaincase lube with about 2000 miles on it on towards the change at 5K.

The new regulator from Zanotti will be here today I hope. Will I fry it if my stator has an ohm reading of 0.2 on the "Stator Grounded Test"
as per the web and my Shop Manual.

This is fun. Slow process but fun. Also if I have to pull the clutch assembly, I know by now it's LH thread and according to the SM I just remove the outer retaining ring and release plate then pull the whole shebang. What's not clear in the manual is don't I first have to remove the locknut on the clutch adjuster screw to get at the "mainshaft nut." A little confused. Clarification would help me thanks in advance.
Also, some just jam a folded towel or shop rang inbetween primary chain and gear, a little clarification on that shortcut would help.
Some use the impact tool over  the big breaker and heave approach. Any damage with the air tool approach as Trip advocates?


A while back I pinched the hot wire to my 90 FLHS. Obviously I didn't mean to pinch the wire in the clamp but nonetheless it occured.
Decided to ride the bike with the short, i.e. fix it after a short ride. About 30 miles total.

The next day after a 40 mile ride the bike wouldn't start. I now know that the charging system wasn't charging.

Installed a new battery. Did the following tests with multimeter.

Stator  AC Output test pass.
Voltage DC to the battery with it running = < 12 volts. something like regulator putting out 11.4 v.
Ordered a new Harley oem regulator from Zanotti.
Grounded Stator test for continuity. Failed. So think it's time for a new stator.
Shorted stator test.  Passed resistance 0.1-0.12 ohms.

I will next pull the outer primary and smell for the "burnt varnish smell."

I don't want to fry the new regulator so think it's time for replacement stator. I have the SM so think if I can get the compensator nut off easily enough the rest shouldn't be too difficult.

Would riding the bike with a direct short be enough to fry the stator? Or do they just go out on their own after "x" amount of time?

TIA

Dave

Quote from: Phu Cat on November 16, 2008, 08:27:44 AM
If you wonder why the primary atmosphere smells like varnish instead of oil, this is why:

PC

I had three of the lugs burn't like that, and a fourth starting. Then I lost power! lol I went with a Cycle Electric stator and regulator. I had the old reg that just dumped full power to ground, which meant it was charging full out all the time. With the new one I don't have that. The old reg. would always be hot, new one hardly gets warm.
by: jayjaywideglide 

Checking a stator is easy.  Just check each terminal from the stator to ground with the bike off.  If one or both the terminals are grounded, then the stator is bad even though it may be putting out correct voltage.  It just means that the voltage is going to ground instead of to the regulator (path of least resistance), therefore no charge to the battery.

by: 14Frisco 

Last time I changed primary oil in my 94 FLHR, the oil did smell "a little bad"...
I don't think I have a charging problem, did a 2000 mile trip in October with no problems (although I did change to a new battery prior to that trip).
So my question is, when the stator goes bad like that, is it an all-out failure and there is no charging at all.  Or is it possible that the stator continues to work "somewhat" or intermittenly?  Don't know if the "little bad" smell is bad enough to indicate a burned stator...

by: skeets 

Yup Phu,,,, thats just what mine looked like and MAN DID IT STINK
Posted on: November 16, 2008, 08:27:44 AMPosted by: Phu Cat 
Insert Quote
If you wonder why the primary atmosphere smells like varnish instead of oil, this is why:



PC
by: Phu Cat 

Don't worry Dave.  The first time you smell a primary with a burnt stator you'll never doubt it again.

PC
by: dave_9113 

Quote from: Phu Cat
Checking the stator output at the regulator connection sometimes shows good voltage even tho the stator is shot.


That is so true.  We got fooled a Sturgis this year and thought replacing the regulator was good enough, because stator was putting out good A/C volts.  Thanks for the tip. 

Now I have to find some varnish and burn it.

dave
by: Phu Cat 

I picked this tip up somewhere, don't remember where.

When your bike quits charging the battery, beside checking for the obvious shiny battery connections, there is one thing that can cut down your diagnostic time.  Take off the derby cover that's over the clutch and smell the primary atmosphere.  If it smells like burnt varnish (instead of like oil), your stator has burnt thru the insulation and is grounding itself.

Checking the stator output at the regulator connection sometimes shows good voltage even tho the stator is shot.

PC

[flhs90]

Just looking at the internet suppliers like Jireyh (sp), J& P, online HD oem, Cycle Electric gives me quite a range of options pricewise and quality wise. New to the Harley charging system, I have some "dumb questions" so to say about why the original equipment stator can either replaced with Harley's 299970-88, 29979-88A, or 29970-88B (high output); thinking the low end stator rotor kits from Jireyh must be Chinese aftermarket. The Accell, Spike, Compufire, and Cycle Electric products are no "doubt." a little more higher end perhaps not have to do it twice type of options.

Also the rotors seem to have a more durable longer lasting lifespan or "failure rate" is more unlikely.

Anyway, I would like to know if I am screwing up by putting the Harley stator #29970-88 back in there and just looking to get back on the road with a "middle of the road" price tag.

Weather here has chilled but were headed for the 60's soon.

TIA, not trying to be a 'slow learner" more a wise consumer, not spend money unnessarily, unless that is my "best option."

[dave_9113]

I'll try to get this straight, because I just speed read your writing.

1)  Taking off clutch pack.  Yes, you must take off the adjusting screw, then the large cirlip, then the metal plate which will give you access to your clutch nut.  Left hand thread as you stated.

2)  Use breaker bar first.  Clutch nut will not be a problem, but you may have to use impact for your compensator nut.  Do not use impact to put back on.  Make yourself a "jam bar" to place between sprockets to lock them up so you can get those nuts off.  You can also use a robust triangle rubber doorstop.  There are many ways, but ensure you protect your sproket teeths.  Don't forget your chain tension adjuster, then take the whole drive out as a unit.     

3)  You're gonna need some type of puller to get the rotor off also.  Do you have one? 

I think the new H-D stators are very good from what I've been told.  Not first hand experience.  I know an Indy here that will not warranty work without putting both new components on.   Just take your time.

dave

[flhs90]

Dave 9913:

Thank you for your post. The clutch info and everything else was explained very clearly.
Think I'm leaning towards the Cycle Electric Stator. My HD regulator arrived yesterday. Part #74519-88A. Zanotti's ($79.63 with UPS shp.)
I'll get the stator next and have at it.

Dave

[dave_9113]

Cycle Electric does make quality stuff.  I have a generator w/ regulator on my 67 shovel bought second hand and it has been very good.  If both components are compatible, you will be set. 

dave

[flhs90]

Evos:

Bike is up and running. All new electric system. Harley AGM, battery, Harley regulator, and Cycle Electric Stator.

Turns out I did have the grounded stator. The insulation where one of the two wires comes right off the  stator was missing some black rubber insulation. With all the little magnetized metal shavings in the primary, magnet wear I'm guessing, they must have formed a little pathway to "ground out my stator."

All advise I got was to put the new regulator on although it "might" still be fine. I saved it. Not sure why just yet.

Thanks again for all the tips. I used a little block of maple hardwood about 7 1/2 inches long. 1/2 drive impact. 100 psi. Had to turn the compressor up from 80 psi. , she wouldn't budge, even with the torch. Big breaker bar and extension seemed a little hairy and my back is a little sore from other  shenangigans. Not Harley, lawnmower loading, dumb, use a come-a-long, it was offered. No sense being a tough guy, comes back to bite ya in the arse.



Oh ya, Karl, at Cycle Electric is to be applauded for being extremely kind to a "newbee". I learned that his company used to supply the Harley Generator models with their oem parts. All his kits come with a Harley oem rotor though.

Mine looked fine. He told me rotor problems are "rare."

Much appreciation, good Karma back at HTT.

Moondog (FLHS 90.)