Closed loop - open loop, BOB?

[wavlovr1]

Bob, and anyone else that can help me"

I'm going to get TTS Mastertune to use on my 2009 103 (255's) Street Glide with fullsac muffler cores.

I've used various Power Commanders, SERT, and TwinScan II+ with Wego IID to tune my bikes, but I really don't fully understand this 09 closed loop/open loop deal yet. My expierence has mostly been on 02 bikes.

I would really appreciate a lesson on tuning this 09 motor with TTS Mastertune. Any and all explanations of closed loop and open loop appreciated.

jimbob

[wavlovr1]

BUMP

anybody?

[FLTRI]

Bob, and anyone else that can help me"

I'm going to get TTS Mastertune to use on my 2009 103 (255's) Street Glide with fullsac muffler cores.

I've used various Power Commanders, SERT, and TwinScan II+ with Wego IID to tune my bikes, but I really don't fully understand this 09 closed loop/open loop deal yet. My experience has mostly been on 02 bikes.

I would really appreciate a lesson on tuning this 09 motor with TTS Mastertune. Any and all explanations of closed loop and open loop appreciated.

jimbob

Open loop operation: The ECM reads the fuel map and feeds fuel based on the map along with some other influential sensors such as intake air temp, cyl head temp, manifold pressure sensor, and throttle position sensor.
Closed loop operation: Along with the above sensor readings the ECM adjusts the actual AFR based on exhaust output read by O2 sensors.

With the TTS "V-tune" software it will tune your engine with included to actual 14.6 AFR throughout the running area using the VE tables. Then, after you have accomplished this, change the AFR table to the actual AFR you want, and the Mastertune software will calculate the necessary changes to accomplish the new AFR goals.

NOTE: The Mastertune "V-tune" system will only work on newer, '07-up bikes (and '06 FXD) with O2 sensors that operate in closed loop. This is because these bikes have O2 sensors earlier bikes don't have.

Again, basically you get the entire engine running range to operate in closed loop @ actual 14.7 AFR, then by changing the areas where you want the bike to run in open loop (high loading such as passing, or steep uphill, or WOT, etc) to the AFR you want it to operate, the Mastertune software will recalculate and modify the actual AFR to what you want. You leave the area in the AFR table you want to cruise in, or operate in closed loop set to 14.6. This tells the software to read the O2 sensors and base the AFR on the closed loop parameters.

Anywhere the AFR table is set to 14.6 the software will operate in closed loop. You have the adjustability to change the actual AFR by changing the CLB table from 14.7 to about 14.0, which is plenty rich enough to keep running cool and still provide great mileage.
Hope this helps answer your questions without thoroughly confusing you,
Bob Lobenberg

[nc-renegade]

Anywhere the AFR table is set to 14.6 the software will operate in closed loop. You have the adjustability to change the actual AFR by changing the CLB table from 14.7 to about 14.0, which is plenty rich enough to keep running cool and still provide great mileage.

This system sounds pretty cool!  In your opinion, is 14.0:1 rich enough for performance at WOT?

[whittlebeast]

12.5 to 13 is far closer for WOT.  14.1 is way too lean.

AW

[Scramjet]

After V-tune and the VE's are set, here is what I am using for AFR's:

Idle = 13.5 to 14.6 depending on how much "parade duty" type conditons are expected
(for idle in NE Ohio mainly rural riding I like 14.4 - in Phoenix I would probably like 13.5)

Part throttle cruise = 14.1 to 14.6 for fuel economy on the Interstate
(set your CLB's to target this number before you start your V-Tune session so you operate in closed loop mode at cruise)

High throttle = 14.1 down to 13.5 as throttle increases

WOT = 13.3 to 13.5 then down to 12.5 over time (PE AFR table)

B

[FLTRI]

Anywhere the AFR table is set to 14.6 the software will operate in closed loop. You have the adjustability to change the actual AFR by changing the CLB table from 14.7 to about 14.0, which is plenty rich enough to keep running cool and still provide great mileage.

This system sounds pretty cool!  In your opinion, is 14.0:1 rich enough for performance at WOT?

No, I failed to mention WOT is not included in closed loop operation. You cannot set the highest load (100kpa) area (WOT included here) in the AFR table to anything leaner than 13.6 (13.2 on some of the earlier versions) so no worries about 14.0 for WOT. I think this is done to protect the user doing something unintentionally dumb. LOL!
I was mainly referring to where the bike would be operating in cruise (70-80% of the time) area rather than performance area, where you would most likely want to run at richer AFRs.
Bob

[Steve Cole]

There is really no reason to not run closed loop at idle up to 4500 RPM and 30 - 75 kPa This is going to get you the best overall mileage and performance in these areas. If you allow the EITMS to do it's job with our calibrations I think the heat issue will also be solved. If you would like to make it richer for idle conditions then put it in open loop from idle to 1250 and 30 - 40 kPa.

[wavlovr1]

Thanks guys, I can't wait to get started and ask a bunch more questions, LOL...

Thanks again,

Jimbob

[wavlovr1]

Me again...

Ok, I got the TTS Mastertune and think there is a map somewhat close to my build (09 SG Stage II 103 with 255's and Fullsac cores)...

I have been trying to read the help files, but it is overload (I suffered a TBI Tramatic brain injury in 2004) because my memory systems have some shorted circuits making reading and retaining very difficult.   

I just want to use a TTS map close for my build and correct the VEs. Is there a simple procedure to accomplish this without trying to understand all the info in those help files?
Something like 10 simple steps for the mentally impaired?   

thanks, Jimbob

[FLTRI]

Something like 10 simple steps for the mentally impaired?   

thanks, Jimbob

Steve is the best for answering this question and I believe you are not the only one who could use a "12 step program" to better understand the product and tuning procedures. LOL!
Bob

[Jeepster]

Bob,

Go here and download the V-Tune Directions. This should help.

http://www.v-twinforum.com/forums/efi-maps-calibrations/143920-tts-v-tune-instructions-doc.html

[wavlovr1]

Can someone snag that instruction file for me and email it. Seems I don't have access because I'm not a PAYING MEMBER....

jimbob

[WVULTRA]

Can someone snag that instruction file for me and email it. Seems I don't have access because I'm not a PAYING MEMBER....

jimbob

jim:

Try here:

http://www.box.net/shared/pqpeunlzdb

[wavlovr1]

Thank You, Thank You, Thank You

jimbob