Can a SERT tuned bike be retuned w/ a TTS

[Merc1100sc]

My bud has an 07 bike w/ an 07 SERT (not sure of the verison #) that was dyno tuned and has never really ran right at all.
I know the SERT locks itself to a certain bike, but, can we put a TTS on it and over write what the SERT has done?

Thanks,.

[Herko]

My bud has an 07 bike w/ an 07 SERT (not sure of the verison #) that was dyno tuned and has never really ran right at all.
I know the SERT locks itself to a certain bike, but, can we put a TTS on it and over write what the SERT has done?

Thanks,.

Yes indeed. Do quite a few SERT and SEST to TTST conversions here.
It's the Interface Module (dongle) that gets locked. The ECM will accept a new tuner.

[Merc1100sc]

Thanks for the info.

ANother question if you dont mind.

If im reading correctly, the TTS can take AFR values and make VE table changes, but only in closed loop?
Anything in open loop, which I believe is WOT conditions?, has to be tuned on a dyno?
Is this correct?

[Don D]

You can set the whole map in closed at 14.6 and ride to sample and get the VEs right after 3 or 4 uploads then go back to the AFRs and set the areas you want to be closed loop (14.6) and the others to whatever AFR you want. Pretty easy. Reason for a dyno would be to wring out a few more HP by tuning the AFRs to optimum and the timing. Might be value of steady state load too for sampling.

[Merc1100sc]

Thanks Don..

[ToBeFrank]

You can set the whole map in closed at 14.6

Not the whole map. At most, you'll only get a few cells into the 60% TPS covered on the VE tables.

[Merc1100sc]

frank,

so you're saying the other 40% would have to be tuned on a dyno to get right?

[ToBeFrank]

frank,

so you're saying the other 40% would have to be tuned on a dyno to get right?

Yes, but keep in mind that the 60% is where you spend 90% of your time riding. The other 40% is the fun area, but if it were me I'd want it tuned properly.

[Merc1100sc]

Gotcha.

I know for sure that i'm going to be tuning two bikes w/ the TTS.
THe buddies that runs like crap. He prob wont want to spend the money to get it dyno tuned.
So, hopefully I can get it close.

Mine I want to get it as close as possible and then have it tweaked on a dyno.

[Scramjet]

You can set the whole map in closed at 14.6

Not the whole map. At most, you'll only get a few cells into the 60% TPS covered on the VE tables.

Frank, not exactly correct.  You can map your VE's up to 80 MAP.  You then project the VE's out to 100 Map.  My final V-Tune table is attached to demonstrate the actual results.

B

[attachment removed after 60 days by system]

[Steve Cole]

Well some people are kind of in the ball park while others are just spinning tales. Mastertune and V-tune on a closed loop application will allow you to tune from idle to 5500 RPM and from 30 kPa to 80 kPa. How people think that's less than 60% 0f the area the engine runs in is beyond me. Your bike idles at about 1000 RPM and 35 kPa, full load is 100 kPa. So you can tune from idle to 5500 and most have a rev limit of 6200, so that gives you tuning ability in 87% of the RPM range. Tuning from no load idle to 80 kPa gives you 72% of the load area tuned. So how people would figure that adds up to less than 60% of the area I have no idea. Now that is only the closed loop ability of the system. If you use DataMaster and use the Dyno Data to capture your changes you can tune the remainder of the area you cannot do in closed loop tuning. So those two things that are part of our standard off the shelf product allow you to tune 100% of the engine running range. A dyno will make it easier and quicker but it can and has been done without it.

On an open loop bike it can be done without a dyno and without O2 sensors, how do you think that carburetor bikes were tuned all these years before a dyno and O2 sensors were around? A dyno is a big help in these cases just as O2 sensors are but it's been done without for more years than it's been done with them. The dyno and O2 sensors allow for a more precise tune to be done by someone who knows how to tune but that doesn't mean everyone that has a dyno knows how to tune either!

[Merc1100sc]

Thanks for the clarification guys.

Im sure you guys will be around the forum when it comes to for me to actually do this, as i'm sure to have questions.

[ToBeFrank]

You can set the whole map in closed at 14.6

Not the whole map. At most, you'll only get a few cells into the 60% TPS covered on the VE tables.

Frank, not exactly correct.  You can map your VE's up to 80 MAP.  You then project the VE's out to 100 Map.  My final V-Tune table is attached to demonstrate the actual results.

It depends on the bike. I have high flowing heads so at 60% throttle I'm above 80 MAP. Actually, I cross 80 MAP at 40% throttle. The point was you cannot cover the whole map with V-Tune alone. You either have to make an educated guess at the rest (projecting and road testing) or get that area dynoed.

[ToBeFrank]

Well some people are kind of in the ball park while others are just spinning tales. Mastertune and V-tune on a closed loop application will allow you to tune from idle to 5500 RPM and from 30 kPa to 80 kPa. How people think that's less than 60% 0f the area the engine runs in is beyond me. Your bike idles at about 1000 RPM and 35 kPa, full load is 100 kPa. So you can tune from idle to 5500 and most have a rev limit of 6200, so that gives you tuning ability in 87% of the RPM range. Tuning from no load idle to 80 kPa gives you 72% of the load area tuned. So how people would figure that adds up to less than 60% of the area I have no idea.

Because the table we're tuning does not have a MAP axis, it has a TPS axis. If at 60% throttle I'm above 80 MAP, I wouldn't get any V-Tune data above 60% TPS and my VE table above that won't be tuned. Thus, 40% of where my bike can go is left untuned. And as I said, 90% of your riding will be below that anyway.

[Steve Cole]

So if you have a well tuned point at 80 kPa and it is only possible to get to 100 kPa are you saying you could not figure out a very close value to be placed there from what V-tune has done................ Within the Mastertune documentation it tells the customer how to fil the information in to those few areas it does not do automatically for them.  End result is a well tuned bike with over 90% of the tuning done for them!

[ToBeFrank]

So if you have a well tuned point at 80 kPa and it is only possible to get to 100 kPa are you saying you could not figure out a very close value to be placed there from what V-tune has done................ Within the Mastertune documentation it tells the customer how to fil the information in to those few areas it does not do automatically for them.

Could I? Yes. Would I rely on it? No.