Baker comp almost ready for shipping.

[Mark P]

Have a look at the attachment. Anyone been able to determine how the sprocket is supported at the chain. The offset if unsupported at the chain will subject the sprocket bore to tremendous lateral stress. The spring pressure on the sliding cam against the sprocket cam is inadequate to hold the load and maintain a true chain alignment.  I have asked them and not gotten any response to it. Thought someone may have heard something on it.
RichardK

So how much spring pressure is on the sliding cam? If it is inadequate, what would be adequate. Oh yeah, and who did you ask? Put a 1000 very hard miles on the second version of the Baker comp and the only wear we are seeing is in the bottom of the lobes and zero naked eye evidence on the teeth of the sprocket or the extension shaft.

[BJB]

As a very successful Supt. for commercial work I always ran things by the motto:
"If you think it is too expensive to do things right the first time, then do it wrong, tear it out, and see how much it costs the 2nd time."
I understand and have done value engineering on jobs. I still always lived by above.
Under warranty, I have the newest SE comp. in my '13 FLTRU. Have one of Steve's fixes for that waiting for warmer weather for an install.
I have a '09 FXDF that is banging on hot starts and will be watching very close how the Baker works out. I, for one hope proves to be another solution. It does frost my azz, and I am not talking about Baker here, that I will also need a new rotor for the fix on the '09. 

[Mark P]

As a very successful Supt. for commercial work I always ran things by the motto:
"If you think it is too expensive to do things right the first time, then do it wrong, tear it out, and see how much it costs the 2nd time."
I understand and have done value engineering on jobs. I still always lived by above.
Under warranty, I have the newest SE comp. in my '13 FLTRU. Have one of Steve's fixes for that waiting for warmer weather for an install.
I have a '09 FXDF that is banging on hot starts and will be watching very close how the Baker works out. I, for one hope proves to be another solution. It does frost my azz, and I am not talking about Baker here, that I will also need a new rotor for the fix on the '09.

We actually tried the first prototype on a bike with the -07 style rotor with the spring cup. Because our spring cup is on the outside it really limited the amount of oil getting to the components. Sorry, we tried to avoid making folks buy a new rotor just no way around it.Harley does a lot of these one piece assemblies to save money on manufacturing cost. Cruise drive mainshafts anyone.

[FSG]

Mark, what if that cup was machined off the -07 rotor?

[Coyote]

So how much spring pressure is on the sliding cam? If it is inadequate, what would be adequate. Oh yeah, and who did you ask? Put a 1000 very hard miles on the second version of the Baker comp and the only wear we are seeing is in the bottom of the lobes and zero naked eye evidence on the teeth of the sprocket or the extension shaft.

I keep hearing this 1000 miles number. Is there a reason you don't have more miles on one than that? Hell I put 1000 miles on my bike in the first 3 weeks of Jan doing only weekend lunch rides. 

[No Cents]

I keep hearing this 1000 miles number. Is there a reason you don't have more miles on one than that? Hell I put 1000 miles on my bike in the first 3 weeks of Jan doing only weekend lunch rides.     

   

Ray

[FSG]

Come on Ray get with the program and stop stuffing up the quotes.   

[No Cents]

 I'm laying low Gary   

Ray

[Mark P]

Mark, what if that cup was machined off the -07 rotor?

Don't see any reason why that won't work as long as the wall thickness is the same on the out board portion of the rotor.

[Mark P]

So how much spring pressure is on the sliding cam? If it is inadequate, what would be adequate. Oh yeah, and who did you ask? Put a 1000 very hard miles on the second version of the Baker comp and the only wear we are seeing is in the bottom of the lobes and zero naked eye evidence on the teeth of the sprocket or the extension shaft.

I keep hearing this 1000 miles number. Is there a reason you don't have more miles on one than that? Hell I put 1000 miles on my bike in the first 3 weeks of Jan doing only weekend lunch rides. 

Because that's how many miles the person testing it was able to get in by the time the Cinci show rolled around. Had to have it at the show so the fine folks from HTT that go to the show could see it.

[Coyote]

So how much spring pressure is on the sliding cam? If it is inadequate, what would be adequate. Oh yeah, and who did you ask? Put a 1000 very hard miles on the second version of the Baker comp and the only wear we are seeing is in the bottom of the lobes and zero naked eye evidence on the teeth of the sprocket or the extension shaft.

I keep hearing this 1000 miles number. Is there a reason you don't have more miles on one than that? Hell I put 1000 miles on my bike in the first 3 weeks of Jan doing only weekend lunch rides. 

Because that's how many miles the person testing it was able to get in by the time the Cinci show rolled around. Had to have it at the show so the fine folks from HTT that go to the show could see it.

So there is only one prototype that's been run?

[No Cents]

 if this Baker comp doesn't fix the problems we all have been having...I'm giving up on running a comp all together.
I have this saved in my favorites and ready to buy for the comp fix.

[attach=0]

Ray

[Just Nick]

if this Baker comp doesn't fix the problems we all have been having...I'm giving up on running a comp all together.
I have this saved in my favorites and ready to buy for the comp fix.

[attach=0]

Ray

I call dibs on your Evo clutch basket

[No Cents]

 

[rbabos]

if this Baker comp doesn't fix the problems we all have been having...I'm giving up on running a comp all together.
I have this saved in my favorites and ready to buy for the comp fix.

[attach=0]

Ray

Seriously? Might as well weld the sprocket up then and a hell of a lot cheaper.  A belt offers no (0) shock protection what so ever. If it did,  the pitch would always be changing under load causing an effect like an over stretched chain for sprocket tooth engagement.
They do look cool but only a real compensator can do the job effectively if designed correctly.
Ron

[rbabos]

Have a look at the attachment. Anyone been able to determine how the sprocket is supported at the chain. The offset if unsupported at the chain will subject the sprocket bore to tremendous lateral stress. The spring pressure on the sliding cam against the sprocket cam is inadequate to hold the load and maintain a true chain alignment.  I have asked them and not gotten any response to it. Thought someone may have heard something on it.
RichardK

So how much spring pressure is on the sliding cam? If it is inadequate, what would be adequate. Oh yeah, and who did you ask? Put a 1000 very hard miles on the second version of the Baker comp and the only wear we are seeing is in the bottom of the lobes and zero naked eye evidence on the teeth of the sprocket or the extension shaft.

Well, since you asked about 75% of the available engine torque should be held by the springs prior to bottoming out. By then the remaining 25% of the shock will have little effect. If it only can hole 25% the rotation will have too much of a running start and create an impact on the crank when it hits the wall in rotation.
Don't know what you have exactly for spring pack but lets say you have 4 discs in series as an example. Only one spring can be used to determine the pressure. All the 3 provide is more effective range in rotation. There will be no extra spring force from the additional 3 springs. This makes it none progressive as a system so to handle the 75% theoretical goal the springs need to be massive in the stack. When this is done the available rotational range is seriously reduced due to available room for spring compression. What happens then is they are too stiff to soften the cruise load impulses to give a smooth ride. As ugly as those SE spring packs are they seem to achieve the goals of my above explanation. The down side of achieving the ability to hold the 75% nominal torque is more pressure on the moving parts. More oil is needed to counter the natural wear that would happen. Light springs as in the past comps required less need for oil due to this lower level of friction on the cam/sprocket interface.
Ron

[No Cents]

if this Baker comp doesn't fix the problems we all have been having...I'm giving up on running a comp all together.
I have this saved in my favorites and ready to buy for the comp fix.

[attach=0]

Ray

Seriously? Might as well weld the sprocket up then and a hell of a lot cheaper.  A belt offers no (0) shock protection what so ever. If it did,  the pitch would always be changing under load causing an effect like an over stretched chain for sprocket tooth engagement.
They do look cool but only a real compensator can do the job effectively if designed correctly.
Ron

Ron...yes seriously.
S&S is running the 3" Primo open primary on their Project Dragon 143. I seen it on the bike at the Expo and talked to them about it. They didn't seemed too concerned about not having a comp on that power plant.
I haven't gave up hope on running a comp yet...but this looks like my best option if my current comp bites the dust and this Baker comp isn't the cure.
I have a few friends that have ran open belt primaries for years...and none of them have had any issues running them.

Ray

[07heri]

So how much spring pressure is on the sliding cam? If it is inadequate, what would be adequate. Oh yeah, and who did you ask? Put a 1000 very hard miles on the second version of the Baker comp and the only wear we are seeing is in the bottom of the lobes and zero naked eye evidence on the teeth of the sprocket or the extension shaft.

I keep hearing this 1000 miles number. Is there a reason you don't have more miles on one than that? Hell I put 1000 miles on my bike in the first 3 weeks of Jan doing only weekend lunch rides. 

I'm with Coyote on this one.  1000 miles isn't squat.  I've been waiting on this for quite a long time.  But, there's no way I can justify the cost on a product that's only seen duty for 1000 miles, especially a compensator.  I'd rather wait for proven comp that will get the job done instead of tossing hundreds down the drain.  Come on....tell us the real deal about this compensator.  Is this going to fix the problem or is it just another guess?  What about different gear ratios?  I try not to bust on vendors but this one has been dragging out for too long with no real solid answers.  Do we have a proven solution/product or just a guess?

[BJB]

As a very successful Supt. for commercial work I always ran things by the motto:
"If you think it is too expensive to do things right the first time, then do it wrong, tear it out, and see how much it costs the 2nd time."
I understand and have done value engineering on jobs. I still always lived by above.
Under warranty, I have the newest SE comp. in my '13 FLTRU. Have one of Steve's fixes for that waiting for warmer weather for an install.
I have a '09 FXDF that is banging on hot starts and will be watching very close how the Baker works out. I, for one hope proves to be another solution. It does frost my azz, and I am not talking about Baker here, that I will also need a new rotor for the fix on the '09.

We actually tried the first prototype on a bike with the -07 style rotor with the spring cup. Because our spring cup is on the outside it really limited the amount of oil getting to the components. Sorry, we tried to avoid making folks buy a new rotor just no way around it.Harley does a lot of these one piece assemblies to save money on manufacturing cost. Cruise drive mainshafts anyone.

Time is on my side here. I'll wait and see. The fact is that I'd need a new rotor with either HD SE or Baker. If the Baker holds up I'd go that way.
This site is a wealth of good info for this old Limey rider. 

[Mark P]

So how much spring pressure is on the sliding cam? If it is inadequate, what would be adequate. Oh yeah, and who did you ask? Put a 1000 very hard miles on the second version of the Baker comp and the only wear we are seeing is in the bottom of the lobes and zero naked eye evidence on the teeth of the sprocket or the extension shaft.

I keep hearing this 1000 miles number. Is there a reason you don't have more miles on one than that? Hell I put 1000 miles on my bike in the first 3 weeks of Jan doing only weekend lunch rides. 

Because that's how many miles the person testing it was able to get in by the time the Cinci show rolled around. Had to have it at the show so the fine folks from HTT that go to the show could see it.

So there is only one prototype that's been run?

Ah...no. The one that was in Cinci was the second prototype which is very similar to the 7 pre-production models that are currently being tested by 7 other individuals.Including one on this forum. Bet you'd like to know who...huh.

[Soft 02]

Mark of your 7 testers what is the most miles a comp has seen so far?

[Coyote]

Ah...no. The one that was in Cinci was the second prototype which is very similar to the 7 pre-production models that are currently being tested by 7 other individuals.Including one on this forum. Bet you'd like to know who...huh.

No, not really. Talking in circles this way, you're starting to sound like a salesman though. 

[Mark P]

Have a look at the attachment. Anyone been able to determine how the sprocket is supported at the chain. The offset if unsupported at the chain will subject the sprocket bore to tremendous lateral stress. The spring pressure on the sliding cam against the sprocket cam is inadequate to hold the load and maintain a true chain alignment.  I have asked them and not gotten any response to it. Thought someone may have heard something on it.
RichardK

So how much spring pressure is on the sliding cam? If it is inadequate, what would be adequate. Oh yeah, and who did you ask? Put a 1000 very hard miles on the second version of the Baker comp and the only wear we are seeing is in the bottom of the lobes and zero naked eye evidence on the teeth of the sprocket or the extension shaft.

Well, since you asked about 75% of the available engine torque should be held by the springs prior to bottoming out. By then the remaining 25% of the shock will have little effect. If it only can hole 25% the rotation will have too much of a running start and create an impact on the crank when it hits the wall in rotation.
Don't know what you have exactly for spring pack but lets say you have 4 discs in series as an example. Only one spring can be used to determine the pressure. All the 3 provide is more effective range in rotation. There will be no extra spring force from the additional 3 springs. This makes it none progressive as a system so to handle the 75% theoretical goal the springs need to be massive in the stack. When this is done the available rotational range is seriously reduced due to available room for spring compression. What happens then is they are too stiff to soften the cruise load impulses to give a smooth ride. As ugly as those SE spring packs are they seem to achieve the goals of my above explanation. The down side of achieving the ability to hold the 75% nominal torque is more pressure on the moving parts. More oil is needed to counter the natural wear that would happen. Light springs as in the past comps required less need for oil due to this lower level of friction on the cam/sprocket interface.
Ron

It the same spring pack as the 5 speed.

[Mark P]

So how much spring pressure is on the sliding cam? If it is inadequate, what would be adequate. Oh yeah, and who did you ask? Put a 1000 very hard miles on the second version of the Baker comp and the only wear we are seeing is in the bottom of the lobes and zero naked eye evidence on the teeth of the sprocket or the extension shaft.

I keep hearing this 1000 miles number. Is there a reason you don't have more miles on one than that? Hell I put 1000 miles on my bike in the first 3 weeks of Jan doing only weekend lunch rides. 

I'm with Coyote on this one.  1000 miles isn't squat.  I've been waiting on this for quite a long time.  But, there's no way I can justify the cost on a product that's only seen duty for 1000 miles, especially a compensator.  I'd rather wait for proven comp that will get the job done instead of tossing hundreds down the drain.  Come on....tell us the real deal about this compensator.  Is this going to fix the problem or is it just another guess?  What about different gear ratios?  I try not to bust on vendors but this one has been dragging out for too long with no real solid answers.  Do we have a proven solution/product or just a guess?

As I just explained to Coyote this was the Second prototype that was 1000 miles in 2 weeks time both dyno and road. Dragging out too long? Bert didn't start working on it till November of last year. Let's see, you want it quick but you want it to be proven over time.

[Mark P]

Mark of your 7 testers what is the most miles a comp has seen so far?

Good question, I'll see if I can find out.