2015 RGS Amp/Speaker Install

[dirtracin23]

Alright gurus (NutZ, Gann, AAWAV), buddy finally got my mounting plate cut out on the water jet and I'm getting ready to jump into this install as my work schedule allows.

Got the holes drilled for the plate and did a test fit on it last night. It's kind of a b!0tch to get situated and bolted in there but I think it's gonna work. Couple before I go and get everything in it's permanent place.

1. The amp power and ground directly to the + and - posts on the battery correct?
2. No remote power wire needs to be hooked up?

Refreshing your memories, I'm installing a RF T400X2ad amp and Infinity Kappa 62.11i speakers.  My memory isn't what it used to be but I think I recall somebody really liking those speakers as the best bang for buck ones to get. I just can't remember who that would have been.   

[UltraNutZ]

Alright gurus (NutZ, Gann, AAWAV), buddy finally got my mounting plate cut out on the water jet and I'm getting ready to jump into this install as my work schedule allows.
Got the holes drilled for the plate and did a test fit on it last night. It's kind of a b!0tch to get situated and bolted in there but I think it's gonna work. Couple before I go and get everything in it's permanent place.

would like to see some pics of your plate.

1. The amp power and ground directly to the + and - posts on the battery correct?

correct

2. No remote power wire needs to be hooked up?

yes sir that's correct as well providing you're using speaker level inputs to the amp.  I have noticed on 14 and up models that this feature sometimes works and sometimes doesn't work.  Those that haven't worked I've seen voltages as low as 88mV on the speaker outputs.  I can't make heads or tails as to why other than QC issues.  The outputs on 4.3 systems are all supposed to be the same and the outputs on teh 6.5 systems are all supposed to be the same.  The auto-turn on feature requires 150mV to a full 12v to function properly.  If the amp does not turn on automatically when you turn the head unit on without the REM wire connected, you will need to use the REM wire otherwise DO NOT use the REM wire.  When the auto-turn feature is active and functioning, the REM becomes a REM OUT to power other devices so it will feed power back into your electrical system.  The first time I saw this about 3 years ago, I was like WTF!  Then I went and read the manual.. LOL   

Refreshing your memories, I'm installing a RF T400X2ad amp and Infinity Kappa 62.11i speakers.  My memory isn't what it used to be but I think I recall somebody really liking those speakers as the best bang for buck ones to get. I just can't remember who that would have been.   

very nice speakers, and I do believe we all like them.   

[dirtracin23]

Here is the stainless steel plate

[dirtracin23]

Clamped down to drill the holes

[dirtracin23]

Holes drilled. They must be countersunk account the factory HU mounts flat on the plate that the holes are drilled in.

[dirtracin23]

Plate will be mounted under the stock HU using four 10X32X1 SS fasteners. The nylon bushings will be placed between the fabricated plate and the plate the HU sits on to create an air gap in an attempt to reduce heat radiating from amp to HU

[dirtracin23]

Amp will be mounted to plate using two 10X32X1/2 SS fasteners

[dirtracin23]

Plate mounted w/o amp for test fitment. During this process, it was determined that the amp will have to be fastened to the fabricated plate BEFORE it is mounted in position. Can not install and tighten amp fasteners if I don't

View from top


View from front

[dirtracin23]

Amp mounted into place with fabricated plate

View from front



View from below

[dirtracin23]

Now I will have to remove everything. Hook up the wiring and test the system. Set my gains. Hopefully I only have to do this once as it is a PITA to get all this into place. Lots of profanity last night.

Before I take it all out, I am going to wrestle around to see how difficult it is to hook all the wiring to the amp while it is in place. I was able do do it when I had the amp zip tied under there with a couple pieces of wood 1X for spacers while I mocked up my plug and play harnesses. It was a b!0tch, but I was able to do it.

[Modes]

Looks nice.  Counter sinking would have been a better choice.  I intended to set my bolts outside the footprint of the stock HU.  I did not fully succeed.  Two minutes with a dremel to clearance the HU and all fit swell.  HU case is still intact without any penetrations from clearancing THAT deep.

Adam

[ΚĜΗΟŜΤ]

Maybe remove the nuts and drill holes thru the bolts and use a thick washer and some R clips......That way you would be able to remove it quickly and easily....Just a thought.

[UltraNutZ]

Very nice work dirtracin23!  Get it all wired up yet?

[dirtracin23]

Not yet. Worked 12 hours+ the last 3 nights. Still ain't been to bed yet.    Hopefully get to work on it tomorrow.

I know if I had to do it all again, I would fabricate some sort of modified L bracket/plate and use the 4 primary mounting bolts for the fairing to attach it. In retrospect, although more difficult to fabricate, the end result would hopefully be a piece that would be easier to get in there and secured. This one is is gonna work but it's kind of a pain in the a$$ to get in there and mounted up.

[UltraNutZ]

i think the only thing I would have changed and I think was stated above with a different method would be the mounting holes for the amp, using something like a Nutsert to make the amp very easy to remove and mount.
http://www.amazon.com/Astro-Pneumatic-Tool-1442-Riveter/dp/B003TODXQW/ref=sr_1_sc_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1394421545&sr=8-1-spell&keywords=nutsert+took

[dirtracin23]

i think the only thing I would have changed and I think was stated above with a different method would be the mounting holes for the amp, using something like a Nutsert to make the amp very easy to remove and mount.
http://www.amazon.com/Astro-Pneumatic-Tool-1442-Riveter/dp/B003TODXQW/ref=sr_1_sc_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1394421545&sr=8-1-spell&keywords=nutsert+took

Hey       I think my brother might have a tool/kit something like that. Guess I better get on the phone.

I still have to take every thing back out so it's not like I can't still make some tweaks.

[dirtracin23]

Hey NutZ , you asked me in another thread across the road to let you know what the current draw on the amp was after I get it all up and running. Well, then you went and "resigned" before I could ask you how I would go about measuring it so that I could provide you with that information.

While you're answering questions, I have a couple more...........

I would like to set my gains using the DMM meter as I really don't trust my ears after Navy jets, loud race cars, and screaming railroad locomotives (now you see why I need the audio upgrade). My DMM is not auto ranging. None of the links on your stickys will work across the road so I'm needing some help. Bike is 2015 RGS. Amp is the RF T400X2ad and speakers are Infinty 62.11i.

Will the stock speaker grills work with this set up? I thought I had read somewhere that I would need the SE grills.

[UltraNutZ]

Hey NutZ , you asked me in another thread across the road to let you know what the current draw on the amp was after I get it all up and running. Well, then you went and "resigned" before I could ask you how I would go about measuring it so that I could provide you with that information.

you have 2 ways of measuring this with a DMM. 

   
• a DMM that has a clamp specifically for reading current draw where you simply clamp it around your main power wire and turn volume up to it's distortion level.
• a DMM with the ability to measure current up to 20A DC.  You would disconnect your battery wire for the amp, connect the red meter lead to the battery, then connect your black meter lead to the main power wire going to the amp so you're putting your meter inline with the battery wire.  crank it up to distortion level and read the meter

While you're answering questions, I have a couple more...........

I would like to set my gains using the DMM meter as I really don't trust my ears after Navy jets, loud race cars, and screaming railroad locomotives (now you see why I need the audio upgrade). My DMM is not auto ranging. None of the links on your stickys will work across the road so I'm needing some help. Bike is 2015 RGS. Amp is the RF T400X2ad and speakers are Infinty 62.11i.

here you go sir.  How to Set Amp Gains with DMM

Will the stock speaker grills work with this set up? I thought I had read somewhere that I would need the SE grills.

you have 2 options here. 

   
• When you take the speaker pods out, you'll need to take them apart and mount the speaker from the inside of the pod.  This will provide for enough clearance to use the stock grills.
• Mount your speakers on the outside of the pods but you'll need to replace the stock grills with the Boom Audio grills to provide clearance for the tweeter and woofer surround.

[dirtracin23]

So am I correct in my figures that I am shooting for 20v on the DMM with this setup?

Amp 200 watts RMS power x 2 @ 2ohm

Speakers 2 ohm load

200 X 2 = 400

√ 400 = 20

[dirtracin23]

Or do I use the figures off of the Certificate of Performance that came with my amp which are 295 watts per channel @ 2 ohms?

[UltraNutZ]

no sir, use the what the amp is rated at RMS, not the birth sheet.

actually your amp is rated at 150 RMS x2  so it would be 150x2 = 300.  √300 = 17.32VAC

[dirtracin23]

150 watts per? You sure?

It is the T400X2, not the PBR300X2.  I think mine is rated @ 200 per channel @ 2 or 4 ohms.

[UltraNutZ]

crap.. my bad.. lol.. i'm bouncing around so much..

your calcs are spot on.   

[dirtracin23]

crap.. my bad.. lol.. i'm bouncing around so much..

your calcs are spot on.   

Thanx. I know you have a lot going on. Just wanted to be sure.

[dirtracin23]

Hey NutZ , you asked me in another thread across the road to let you know what the current draw on the amp was after I get it all up and running. Well, then you went and "resigned" before I could ask you how I would go about measuring it so that I could provide you with that information.

you have 2 ways of measuring this with a DMM. 

   
• a DMM that has a clamp specifically for reading current draw where you simply clamp it around your main power wire and turn volume up to it's distortion level.
• a DMM with the ability to measure current up to 20A DC.  You would disconnect your battery wire for the amp, connect the red meter lead to the battery, then connect your black meter lead to the main power wire going to the amp so you're putting your meter inline with the battery wire.  crank it up to distortion level and read the meter

While you're answering questions, I have a couple more...........

I would like to set my gains using the DMM meter as I really don't trust my ears after Navy jets, loud race cars, and screaming railroad locomotives (now you see why I need the audio upgrade). My DMM is not auto ranging. None of the links on your stickys will work across the road so I'm needing some help. Bike is 2015 RGS. Amp is the RF T400X2ad and speakers are Infinty 62.11i.

here you go sir.  How to Set Amp Gains with DMM

Will the stock speaker grills work with this set up? I thought I had read somewhere that I would need the SE grills.

you have 2 options here. 

   
• When you take the speaker pods out, you'll need to take them apart and mount the speaker from the inside of the pod.  This will provide for enough clearance to use the stock grills.
• Mount your speakers on the outside of the pods but you'll need to replace the stock grills with the Boom Audio grills to provide clearance for the tweeter and woofer surround.

Need a link to download the test tone to a thumb drive. The one in your link to How to Set Gains with DMM above does not work. The link to the how to tutorial works. It's the link in the tutorial to download the test tone that does not.

[UltraNutZ]

https://www.dropbox.com/s/px233gv713ahi5x/1000Hz%200dB.mp3?dl=0

[dirtracin23]

 

Thank you sir.  I am making progress.

[dirtracin23]

Alright NutZ, I got the gain set and have a few more questions.

1) The amp has an EQ dial and also a FREQ dial and both were set at their minimums while setting the gain, what would be a good balanced setting for these? Since this setup is a PITA to get under there and secured with no easy way of adjusting these dials after the fact, I would like to set them before I put it all back together.

2) Per your instructions for setting gain with a DMM, I used the right speaker outputs. Got them set precisely @ 20V. Just for shits and giggles I put the DMM probes on the left speaker outputs and the reading is 19.8V.  Why would there be a difference between the two?

3) Unless I am not looking at things right (definitely a possibility), on a RGS there is no way to mount the speaker inside the pod that I can tell as you posted earlier. The stock grills have an alignment tab on the outside edge and a snap in tab at top and bottom of the inside edge. The top one goes in just fine but the bottom hits the woofer surround. I am worried that the constant motion of the surround against this tab will quickly wear a hole in the surround. If I need to, would there be any harm in taking a Dremel and kind of creating a pocket in the basket/body for the tab to sit in? Or should I just look at cutting the tab off and figuring out another way to secure the grill. I think I might be able to get a small screw thru the grill and into the speaker basket.

[UltraNutZ]

Alright NutZ, I got the gain set and have a few more questions.

1) The amp has an EQ dial and also a FREQ dial and both were set at their minimums while setting the gain, what would be a good balanced setting for these? Since this setup is a PITA to get under there and secured with no easy way of adjusting these dials after the fact, I would like to set them before I put it all back together.

2) Per your instructions for setting gain with a DMM, I used the right speaker outputs. Got them set precisely @ 20V. Just for shits and giggles I put the DMM probes on the left speaker outputs and the reading is 19.8V.  Why would there be a difference between the two?

3) Unless I am not looking at things right (definitely a possibility), on a RGS there is no way to mount the speaker inside the pod that I can tell as you posted earlier. The stock grills have an alignment tab on the outside edge and a snap in tab at top and bottom of the inside edge. The top one goes in just fine but the bottom hits the woofer surround. I am worried that the constant motion of the surround against this tab will quickly wear a hole in the surround. If I need to, would there be any harm in taking a Dremel and kind of creating a pocket in the basket/body for the tab to sit in? Or should I just look at cutting the tab off and figuring out another way to secure the grill. I think I might be able to get a small screw thru the grill and into the speaker basket.

   
• The EQ setting i believe on this amp is non-effective if the crossover switch is in the AP position.  Basically what this does is kinda like timing for your car.  It keeps the output signal in sync with the input signal.  I would leave this as is
• The speaker outputs will only (or technically should) be the same both left and right with balanced RCA inputs.  This is to be expected with speaker level inputs as they are not a balanced input.
• Yes you're correct on the pods for the roadies.  I've not done one (14/15) myself so I made the assumption the pods came apart like the batwings do but in fact they do not so the speaker have to be mounted from the outside of the pod.  If trimming the bottom tab off and a screw used to secure the bottom and not affect the speaker's performance, I say go for it.  Otherwise you're probably going to need the Boom Audio grills.

[dirtracin23]

After a closer inspection it is indeed the tweeters that are posing the clearance issues. Guess I'll be getting a pair of Boom grills to see if they work. If that doesn't solve the problem then, as much as I hate to, I might be having to find a different pair of speakers.

[UltraNutZ]

nah you'll be fine with the BA grills.  they are designed to protrude outwards more to provide better clearance

[dirtracin23]

nah you'll be fine with the BA grills.  they are designed to protrude outwards more to provide better clearance

I sure hope so. But just in case, I have already been looking at BT7P1 Titan II but I don't know if they will clear either. If they would, I would think Bill would be listing them on his site as '15 RG replacements. Also looking at Cycle Sounds Series 6.

I'll get a pair of Boom grills and see what happens. If they don't work, I can return them and start looking for another solution.

You have the P/N for them grills handy Todd?

[slothy]

if its sounds super harsh you will need one of these or have radio flashed


http://www.cyclesounds.com/dsp-line-level-shifter-magic-box-harley.html

[UltraNutZ]

slothy, have you used one bud?  I've only used one and it seemed to work ok.  I'm seeing a lot of info since then about the no amp and 8 speaker flash being the best since it seems to disable the DSP crap altogether.

[UltraNutZ]

you'll need the grills, the 4 clips and not sure about the gaskets but i would think so being a different fit for the grills.

[dirtracin23]

Thanx.

I'm gonna sacrifice a stock grill to the dremel to try and get clearance between it and the tweeter. Turned that tweeter a 180° (tweeter button to the top) and it looks like it doesn't hit it as bad so that may work. Then I'm going to cut off the snap in mounting tabs and try the screw idea for the mounting points. If that doesn't work, I'll order up all the Boom stuff and see how it goes.

Hope all with a '15 RG are paying attention to this thread so I can be the guinea pig and save others a lot of hassle.

[UltraNutZ]

well the tweeter itself, because it's protected by the screen itself isn't going to be an issue if it's touching the grill.  Just make sure you've got good clearance for the woofer cone and it's surround as that's where your problems will surface likely in failure of the speaker.

[dirtracin23]

well the tweeter itself, because it's protected by the screen itself isn't going to be an issue if it's touching the grill.  Just make sure you've got good clearance for the woofer cone and it's surround as that's where your problems will surface likely in failure of the speaker.

Yeah, that mounting tab hitting the woofer surround really caught my eye. I could see that surround getting a hole rubbed in it REAL fast!

[slothy]

slothy, have you used one bud?  I've only used one and it seemed to work ok.  I'm seeing a lot of info since then about the no amp and 8 speaker flash being the best since it seems to disable the DSP crap altogether.

i have one, haven't used it yet. i'm just running a setup of hertz spl 6.5 with a set if their st25 compression drivers off a hdp4. if i was going to run more speakers i would just get it flashed.

[dirtracin23]

if its sounds super harsh you will need one of these or have radio flashed


http://www.cyclesounds.com/dsp-line-level-shifter-magic-box-harley.html

I am going with the dealer flash. I have read too many varied opinions/results with the Magic Box.

[Gnarl78]

Dirt racing - are you still running this setup? How do you like it? Sounds like a lot of effort went into it.

[AAWAV]

Nevermind - If I just go to the end of the posts!!!! 

dummy post - sorry guys

[dirtracin23]

Dirt racing - are you still running this setup? How do you like it? Sounds like a lot of effort went into it.

I had it all in there and hooked up but no dealer flash so I can't comment as to the actual sound quality yet. I can say that it was definitely louder than stock. Took the amp out and sent it to AAWAV's independent testing facility and haven't got it all put back in yet. I have a severe case of OCD on certain things (bike being one of them) so there are some things I am working on to get them to my satisfaction. The plug and play wiring harnesses that I made were too long to suit me so I'm redoing those. The bolts that hold the amp mounting plate I made are a royal PiTA to get started so I am going to TIG the nuts in place on the mounting plate to remedy that. Been down in the back real bad for over a week as a result of swapping motors on my Simplicity garden tractor and getting my snowblower and tire chains put on for Snowmeggedon '15 that never materialized last weekend. When I get my back straightened out, barring another sugery, I'll get back to working on this audio project.