MegaLogViewer HD has a new feature

[whittlebeast]

Here is an example of a fairly well tuned later bike.  It was apparently tuned with a Power Vision with the wideband option.

http://www.nbs-stl.com/HarleyTuning/PowerVisionWBTune01.png

http://www.nbs-stl.com/HarleyTuning/PowerVisionWBTune02.png

Good job by whoever tuned it.  The front cylinder is doing something a little bit funny in the midrange that may need attention.

Andy

[whittlebeast]

This same motor has AE and DE issues.  Look how the AFR1 is following the AFR Target fairly well except in the transitions.

http://www.nbs-stl.com/HarleyTuning/PowerVisionWBTune04.png

This is one of the big things we look at the race motors where driveability is everything.

Have fun tuning

Andy

[whittlebeast]

Does anyone have a Knock data log off one of the newer bikes that has some serious knock.  I would love to play with the log and see if I can come up with some cool filters and tricks to make trouble shooting really easy.

Andy

[FLTRI]

Here is an example of a fairly well tuned later bike.  It was apparently tuned with a Power Vision with the wideband option.

http://www.nbs-stl.com/HarleyTuning/PowerVisionWBTune01.png

http://www.nbs-stl.com/HarleyTuning/PowerVisionWBTune02.png

Good job by whoever tuned it.  The front cylinder is doing something a little bit funny in the midrange that may need attention.

Andy

When 1 cylinder gets leaner and 1 cylinder gets richer how can that be a good tune? Just look to the right of the cursor.
Can you point out the "funny" condition you are talking about?
Bob

[FLTRI]

This same motor has AE and DE issues.  Look how the AFR1 is following the AFR Target fairly well except in the transitions.

http://www.nbs-stl.com/HarleyTuning/PowerVisionWBTune04.png

This is one of the big things we look at the race motors where driveability is everything.

Have fun tuning

Andy

What I see is AFR2 is not getting good sampling and consequently the virtual straight line even during shifts. AFR1 looks like the sensor is getting better readings.
Bob

[whittlebeast]

Bob,  On the plot above, the red line is the AFR Target that the ECU has in the Lambda target table.  The green line is what is being detected by the on-board wideband.

Here is one of my race motors out on course.  This is about 90 sec of testing.  You can see the same sort of plot here but the colors are just different.

http://www.nbs-stl.com/RxpxTuning/Log%20Viewer%20Racing%20Plot.png

[whittlebeast]

I updated the screen shot above.  I added VE Front and VE Rear and also PW Front and Rear

http://www.nbs-stl.com/HarleyTuning/PowerVisionWBTune04.png

I can't believe Harley is doing that with the injectors on the shifts.  What a driveability nightmare.  You guys need to get on the Harley ECU hackers to give you the ability to fix that.

Andy

[FLTRI]

Andy,
Why is the target AFR all over the place? That's why I mistook it for the other cylinder (hard to see on my iPad)...target is not consistent at all except WOT.
Another irritant is there are no side scales to quantify changes to know if the changes are major or minor. Guess the only way is to use the cursor.
If so, a screen shot is hard to quantify due to not knowing value of max-min data.

Gotta be honest here Andy, this looks like very old analysis software that was originally converted from DOS?
It reminds me of the 80s when we only had strip charts to evaluate engine, chassis, aero, and driver/rider info look at.
Once the D/A software gurus got interested we got much more user friendly visual analysis software...ie: Pi, MoTec, CDS, and others that offer animation analysis to speed up getting the answers to questions posed.
As always, JMHO,
Bob

[whittlebeast]

Bob, the graph scales are always on the left.

I am told the software is written in java to run on several different operating systems.  I only run it on Windows...  The code is kept fairly tight to allow running on the older versions of windows as may people tune on older laptops at the track.

Bling does not get motors tuned, extremely adjustable SW does.

Andy

[FLTRI]

Bling does not get motors tuned, extremely adjustable SW does.

Andy

I doubt all the engine builders, chassis and aero engineers call the $100,000 animation graphics they use to see what's happening in a quick time period, Bling. LOL
Strip charts are passe nowadays. Graphics is where analysis software has developed into. The faster the question can be answered the faster the vehicle gets back to the track.
JME,
Bob
Note: Here's an example of crude software to graph engine data.
http://performancetrends.com/Engine-Analyzer-Pro.htm

[whittlebeast]

Cool stuff,  I bet, but that is a far cry from $39.95 or whatever MLVHD goes for to get software that is designed to look at engine data off almost any system that will export a CSV or TXT file. 

[whittlebeast]

Bob, it makes me sick but I wrote a suspension program very similar to their program.  It was written in GWBasic way back in about 1985.  It was later rewritten to run in excel in about 1995.  Wow does that bring back memories. 

I will look around tonight on the big servers at home and see if I can generate a screen shot.

At times, I really miss racing.

Andy

[FLTRI]

Cool stuff,  I bet, but that is a far cry from $39.95 or whatever MLVHD goes for to get software that is designed to look at engine data off almost any system that will export a CSV or TXT file.

....and $34.95 more than simply using the data log software that comes with the better tuners.
Granted that software normally will not allow for all the graphing "tricks" you like to dream up.
I guess I just don't see the issues you seem to see finding and correcting tunes.

We have tuned bikes that come back for service and we do pulls on just to see if things have changed...very rare to see a good tune change...unless the O2 sensors are not getting good sampling...also very rare with the newer exhaust systems as it appears most all exh mfgs have come to the party and have relocated the sensors so they are much better than in the beginning when they went out of their way to keep the sensors out of the exhaust stream.

That said, more high performance builds need more scrutiny as far as O2 sensor sampling is concerned.

Bob

[whittlebeast]

I just played with a TwinScan3 log and all is good.

http://www.nbs-stl.com/HarleyTuning/TwinScan3_01.png

http://www.nbs-stl.com/HarleyTuning/TwinScan3_02.png

http://www.nbs-stl.com/HarleyTuning/TwinScan3_VE_Corrections.PNG

Since the TwinScan3 has Front and Rear VE in the scan, it is fairly trivial to generate VE New Front and Rear.

Andy

[whittlebeast]

Here is a couple of different screen shots of how I would use MLV to tune from a Twin Scan 3 Log

In the first screen shot, I added VE New Front.  This is based on the the Target AFR that I generate within MLV and by how far the AFR WEGO Front missed the target AFR.

http://www.nbs-stl.com/HarleyTuning/TwinScan3_03.png

Then I applied a filter to the data like ignore all data that the AFR WEGO is out of range or if the Injector Duty Cycle is 0 and generate the New average VE New's

http://www.nbs-stl.com/HarleyTuning/TwinScan3_VE_New_Front.PNG

Once set up for your RPM and MAP tuning points, you have VE New values in a few seconds.

Andy

[whittlebeast]

Here is a log of a motor running a MAF. This motor happens to be a turbo build with fairly huge dynamic range.  Notice how well the MAPxRPM matches the MAF. 

http://www.nbs-stl.com/HarleyTuning/MAPxRPM%20vs%20MAF.png

Andy

[FLTRI]

Here is a log of a motor running a MAF. This motor happens to be a turbo build with fairly huge dynamic range.  Notice how well the MAPxRPM matches the MAF. 

http://www.nbs-stl.com/HarleyTuning/MAPxRPM%20vs%20MAF.png

Andy

Not that this relates to this forum, it's bikes, or the folks looking for tuning info for this harley, are you surprised the MAF follows MAP?
Bob

[whittlebeast]

I sure was surprised the first time I saw it. 

[whittlebeast]

Bob, this has everything to do with Harley tuning.  All motors are a <suck> <squish> <BANG> <blow> and what you find on one setup almost always holds a similar pattern on the next motor.  Sure a Harley has a couple of relatively rare quirks, but the similarities are very common.

Have fun tuning

Andy

[Mirrmu]

At this stage i give the MLVHD a big thumbs down, since the update i have had nothing but trouble with the software

Efianalytics have stopped communicating with me in regards to the issue, they keep telling me i have some other software on my computer which is doing something to log file

Worked fine prior to update, since update problems

I use an apple computer, bought a cheap windows XP for winPV and MLVHD, they the only two softwares on pc apart from windows XP operating system

[whittlebeast]

How are you fetching the data log off of the PV.  Is it possible to send me that data log without attempting to open it?

The issue you are having appears to be that some piece of software is generating a non standard CSV file.  We need to figure out what piece of the sequence you are doing, is creating this.  The dead giveaway is a trace with thousands of vertical lines in MLV.

At this point, unfortunately you can no longer get updates for your computer as the underlying OS is close to 15 years old.

Andy

[Mirrmu]

Sure, can you send me your email

I open winPV, get log, save to folder, i done some logs yesterday and still same issue, the log opens but doesnt load up, only after i click around menu, or reload file

It would be good to try version prior to MLVHD again but not sure whether can re-instal this

[whittlebeast]

Here is an example of how I use MAPxRPM to locate, identify and verify a tuning issue in a tune.

I got a log from a member that was generated on a dyno.  The first thing I do is scatter plot MAPxRPM vs Duty Cycle Front and Rear and AFR.  I get this trace.

http://www.nbs-stl.com/HarleyTuning/MAPxRPM%20Issue.png

Notice that strange tail off on the right trace, see the circle.  Also notice how that cylinder went lean.

From there I go to the log viewer and the trace center goes to where the event happened.

http://www.nbs-stl.com/HarleyTuning/MAPxRPM%20Issue%20Trace.png

Notice where the rear cylinder dropped very lean as did the VE and the Duty Cycle.  The front cylinder also dropped leaner then I would prefer.

I then opened the Histogram view and plotted RPM, MAP and VE.  Look how the average VE Rear dropped about 20 points right at the point we had trouble.

Here is an additional view of the motor.

http://www.nbs-stl.com/HarleyTuning/MAPxRPM%20Issue%2001.png

The next thing to look into is knock.

Have fun tuning

Andy

[whittlebeast]

Here are the knock traces on the same motor.

http://www.nbs-stl.com/HarleyTuning/Knock%20Issues.png

Knock on the bottom end of the pull

http://www.nbs-stl.com/HarleyTuning/Knock%20Issues%20Bottom%20End.png

Shown in the Histogram..

http://www.nbs-stl.com/HarleyTuning/Knock%20Issues%20Histogram%20Bottom%20End.png

Now on the top end

http://www.nbs-stl.com/HarleyTuning/Knock%20Issues%20Top%20End.png

And on the histogram view

http://www.nbs-stl.com/HarleyTuning/Knock%20Issues%20Histogram%20Top%20End.png

This view makes it real easy to tell where the motor came from to get into this over loaded (knocking) situation.

Note that this log happens to be off a Power Vision log but MLVHD has no problem using logs off one system to tune a bike using a different to hack the ECU.  Mix and max in any way you want.  Street riding, Dyno Tuning...  It simply does't matter.

Have fun tuning

Andy

[FLTRI]

Gotta ask. Since the AFR trace shows a lean condition, why not just look at that and richen up the area the AFR graph shows as lean?
Why do we need all the other graphs? AFR is all I need to see lean spots that need correcting.
Same with knock. Start a bit of retard right before the event and retest.
Those basic traces are all that's needed IMO to identify and correct tuning issues.
What am I missing in all the other graphs?