Power Vision Quick Tune Question ?

[sandrooney]

I was getting some pinging while on a ride in Arizona. I went into Quick Tune and pulled 4* of timing in the low and mid range. That fixed the ping but noticed a little decel pop after pulling the timing. Do I need to go in and add 4* in the decel range ? I was getting no decel pop before this. Can timing even cause decel pop or is it just coincidence ?

Thanks,
SR

[whittlebeast]

Let me try to explain something.

A motor is at some RPM and some MAP reading at any given time.  Your bike's tuning map is divided into 250 or so of these MAP by RPM bins.  If your bikes fuel tuning is MAP and RPM based tuning, that is known as Speed Density.  Here is what about 2 hours of data logging looks like when you graph it with RPM along the bottom and MAP (or Load) on the vertical axis.  The color of the dots indicates AFR.

http://www.nbs-stl.com/HarleyTuning/Harley%20Engine%20Trace%202.png

I have added boxes to give an idea of what is happening in each area of the map.

Green is idle
Black in the middle is the typical riding range where you spend 70 or 80% of your riding.  Note that this is a Sporty.  Your area may be a little different.
Red is the higher power section of the map.  More power as you go up and to the right.
The purple is trailing throttle where the motor is dragging the bike generally to a lower speed.

From reading your description, you removed some of timing from the purple area where there is no real need to do this as detonation will never happen.  Detonation is most likely only in the red area, or in the transitioning area between the black to red boxes.

Hope this helps

Andy

[whittlebeast]

Here is a typical sampling that a Dyno Based tuning uses to attempt to get to everywhere that the bike will get to in the real world.  You can see how on the dyno, you get  very small sampling by comparison to street tuning.

http://www.nbs-stl.com/HarleyTuning/Harley%20Engine%20Dyno%20Trace.png

Andy

[sandrooney]

I set up a couple of the PV gauges to read the spark knock and it was pinging and pulling timing at 15 to 20 percent throttle between 2700 and 3000 rpms. Now that I am home and have access to my computer I will try to adjust the tune if I can figure out how to.

Thanks,

[rbabos]

I was getting some pinging while on a ride in Arizona. I went into Quick Tune and pulled 4* of timing in the low and mid range. That fixed the ping but noticed a little decel pop after pulling the timing. Do I need to go in and add 4* in the decel range ? I was getting no decel pop before this. Can timing even cause decel pop or is it just coincidence ?

Thanks,
SR

Timing was pulled in the low end decel areas when you chose low end. Yes that can cause decel popping. You could replace the 4* in the low back to where it was and just keep the -4* in the mid area.
Ron

[whittlebeast]

15-20% throttle can produce fairly high MAP readings approaching the lower red box area.  Especially at low RPM ranges.  I use MegaLogViewer HD to look at the data. It gets fairly easy to get your head around what is going on and how to fix it.

Andy

[sandrooney]

Ron, so you think I only need to pull the timing from mid range keeping in mind the pinging was at 15 to 20 % throttle at 2700 to 3000 rpm ? Would that be considered mid range? Thanks, SR

Thanks Andy I will try to figure it out.

[whittlebeast]

At the very least, have the two knock fields plus MAP and RPM on your display. Timing is a MAP and RPM adjustment table.

Big data logs make this sort of thing way easier to figure out.

Andy

[rbabos]

Ron, so you think I only need to pull the timing from mid range keeping in mind the pinging was at 15 to 20 % throttle at 2700 to 3000 rpm ? Would that be considered mid range? Thanks, SR

Thanks Andy I will try to figure it out.

Look at it this way. Any kpa  below what the engine would idle regardless of rpm could be considered decel. Yes, only the mid range timing needs to be pulled if mid range is the only area it pings at. Not a tune by no means but a short term adjustment should fuel dictate a need for the change. Then set it back to the original settings when better fuel shows up. I've not used the feature but suspect it's quite global rather then RPM/MAP specific, which was done on your actual tune. Don't know what it considers mid range for rpms. Great for on the road adjustments should the need arise, as on your case. I guess a bike could be tuned using quick tune but the overall result likely won't be a good as a real tune. Quick tune does not equal good tune but the feature has it's uses.
Ron

[FLTRI]

You may be at 15-20% but the timing table doesn't go by t/p so that info is not important.
What IS important is what the MAP kpa value is when the pinging occurs. That and the rpm will give you the place where to retard timing.
That said, make small 2 deg changes starting 250 rpm prior to where you see the knock retard.
Do not take out the whole reported knock retard amount. Start with smaller changes.
Again, go by MAP kpa NOT t/p.
Hope this helps,
Bob

[joe_lyons]

You may be at 15-20% but the timing table doesn't go by t/p so that info is not important.
What IS important is what the MAP kpa value is when the pinging occurs. That and the rpm will give you the place where to retard timing.
That said, make small 2 deg changes starting 250 rpm prior to where you see the knock retard.
Do not take out the whole reported knock retard amount. Start with smaller changes.
Again, go by MAP kpa NOT t/p.
Hope this helps,
Bob

+1

[KE5RBD]

I was getting some pinging while on a ride in Arizona. I went into Quick Tune and pulled 4* of timing in the low and mid range. That fixed the ping but noticed a little decel pop after pulling the timing. Do I need to go in and add 4* in the decel range ? I was getting no decel pop before this. Can timing even cause decel pop or is it just coincidence ?

Thanks,
SR

I would put the timing back and richen the fuel in the areas about 5. You can also increase the VE's in same area 3 to 5.   Usually the reason one will start pinging is it got little warm due to being too lean.  The hotter it gets the more likely to have a glowing piece of carbon that causes the pinging.  This  may make your idle too rich and if it does just lean the idle back out. You can make the decel numbers smaller will stop the decel pop also.  The slow timing will cause it to run hotter.  Without seeing the map it is best guess as to what caused the issue. The low mid cruise rely on richer mixture to help keep cool as not enough air moving over cylinders.  An exception is if it is a wet head.

[sandrooney]

Thanks for all the help