S&S Premium Lifters & SE Tapered Push Rods

[Coyote]

IMO, lifter adjustment is clearly not your problem.  I'd be looking elsewhere... months ago. 

[Thumper Buttercup]

IMO, lifter adjustment is clearly not your problem.  I'd be looking elsewhere... months ago. 

With helping a few people with computer problems and reworking our yard and garden we've
not had a lot of time for our bike.

This year has been nuts for weather for us.


Our problem sounds a lot like this bike.

It looks like it's time to pull the heads and ship them out.

http://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,81138.msg923846.html#msg923846

[bajabob]

A/R pins ?

[Thumper Buttercup]

A/R pins ?

You are talking the rod pins, bushings?  When Rev-Perf did our crank they inspected our
original rods with 24,000 miles on them and said they were good and did not change them
or the bushings out.


OK, we will in the next week get her out and get her as hot as I can and take the stescope to
try and pin point this noise, I'll report back, we'll inspect the cylinders for carbon buildup
with our camera and see where to go.


If it's in the top end I would like to purchace new heads with lighter beehive springs and a
compression releases then we can just pull it down and replace the heads and get her
ready to ride without having to break it in.

With the work we've had done to our current heads I guess my best bet is to send them
back to wfolarry but we don't want the down time.  I don't even know if there is a good
local shop up this way that we can get the work done at.



 

[04 SE Deuce]

A/R pins = lifter anti-rotation pins,  which I doubt is your problem and IIRC you have already tried.   -Rick

[truckee]

good topic on your reply #51, do a leak down, factory seats have been a problem with headwork. talk to baisley, they ran into this problem some time ago

[Thumper Buttercup]

Guys I'm going to let this post die and pickup the discussion in this thread so I don't
have two different discussions going here on the same problem.


http://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,81138.0.html



04 SE DEUCE,

I've got the zippers pins and with the S&S Premium lifters I had to go back to stock
pins to get them in, the stock pins were .003 clearance.

truckee,

when wfolarry did the heads he replaced the valve guides and seals but I don't
know if anything else was done with the valves such as a valve job with the headwork.


Max,

my problem with some miss communication on the push rods, I've got a set here
but not the easy installs.

[Admiral Akbar]

Guys I'm going to let this post die and pickup the discussion in this thread so I don't
have two different discussions going here on the same problem.


http://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,81138.0.html



04 SE DEUCE,

I've got the zippers pins and with the S&S Premium lifters I had to go back to stock
pins to get them in, the stock pins were .003 clearance.

truckee,

when wfolarry did the heads he replaced the valve guides and seals but I don't
know if anything else was done with the valves such as a valve job with the headwork.


Max,

my problem with some miss communication on the push rods, I've got a set here
but not the easy installs.

You don't have HTCC heads do you... Seat on HTCC heads are known for dropping seats.. This is your thread and it seems to have most of the facts about your dilemma.. Why cloud the other one.?

[Thumper Buttercup]

Guys I'm going to let this post die and pickup the discussion in this thread so I don't
have two different discussions going here on the same problem.


http://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,81138.0.html



04 SE DEUCE,

I've got the zippers pins and with the S&S Premium lifters I had to go back to stock
pins to get them in, the stock pins were .003 clearance.

truckee,

when wfolarry did the heads he replaced the valve guides and seals but I don't
know if anything else was done with the valves such as a valve job with the headwork.


Max,

my problem with some miss communication on the push rods, I've got a set here
but not the easy installs.

You don't have HTCC heads do you... Seat on HTCC heads are known for dropping seats.. This is your thread and it seems to have most of the facts about your dilemma.. Why cloud the other one.?

Heck I'm easy, I'll close off my comments on the other thread and point to this one.

My heads are the orginial 04 heads reworked by wfolarry, he did a valve job and porting job with
new valve guides and seals and ported the heads and squish grooves cut.  He installed Beehive
springs that are stronger than Harleys.

He did install stock seats in the valves.

[Thumper Buttercup]

OK,

My leak down tester is messed up so we had to make do with a hot and cold compression test.

I did start with our new bore scope and the piston tops and what I could see of the cylinders
don't look bad.  I'll post up the photos as soon as I find them on the laptop.

The front cylinder sparkplug was dirty and the rear is nice and clean looking.

We did the cold compression, it was 85 degrees and humid in the shop, Rear 195, Front 196

then we started her up, after about 30 seconds she started ticking, took the stethoscope
and Checked all the following areas of the engine.

Rear Exhaust - quiet
Rear Intake - quiet
Rear Intake and Exhaust push rod covers - quiet no noise at all
Front Intake - quiet
Front Exhaust - steady ticking very clear on the exhaust flange
Front intake and exhaust push rod covers - quiet no noise at all

Hot compression  Rear - 202 ,  Front - 184-185


So it looks like we are pulling the front cylinder only and go from there.

Monday looks like a good shop day we'll get her pulled down then.

[kd]

OK,

My leak down tester is messed up so we had to make do with a hot and cold compression test.

I did start with our new bore scope and the piston tops and what I could see of the cylinders
don't look bad.  I'll post up the photos as soon as I find them on the laptop.

The front cylinder sparkplug was dirty and the rear is nice and clean looking.

We did the cold compression, it was 85 degrees and humid in the shop, Rear 195, Front 196

then we started her up, after about 30 seconds she started ticking, took the stethoscope
and Checked all the following areas of the engine.

Rear Exhaust - quiet
Rear Intake - quiet
Rear Intake and Exhaust push rod covers - quiet no noise at all
Front Intake - quiet
Front Exhaust - steady ticking very clear on the exhaust flange
Front intake and exhaust push rod covers - quiet no noise at all

Hot compression  Rear - 202 ,  Front - 184-185


So it looks like we are pulling the front cylinder only and go from there.

Monday looks like a good shop day we'll get her pulled down then.

Sounds like the front exhaust guide and or seat is suspect with the sound test results.

[lilchief]

Ya know I used to have this very same problem with a set of Stage I Hillside heads. That front exhaust ticked, and not quietly. It was so loud that it would echo off of a vehicle or a highway divider/barricade when you rode past it. To this day, I still have no idea what it was. A very reputable local machinist here has gone thru those heads & couldn't find anything wrong at all. I no longer have that bike, but before I traded it in, I had a different top end on it than the Hillside, and that thing was a quiet running motor. I'm still a firm believer that there was something amiss in the front head, but it couldn't be found. (By the way, I still have those heads & they are for sale  )

Lil' Chief

[Thumper Buttercup]

lilchief,

I've got a noisy head now why do I want another .


OK Guys,

Looks like we are pulling both heads now, there was some oil sitting in the intake
this has been there lately, not much but sometimes there, we are running 1/4 mark
cold on the dipstick.

The front intake valve looks great to me




The rear intake valve has a bit of oil on the bottom of the guide, and it looks to me like it's not seating??




Could not get good shots of the pistons, I was in a hurry with all this smoke up here.

Front piston



Rear Piston




Guys,

Leaning on just get the front fixed as is and rider her, How bad would it
be to pull the cover off the rear cylinder and use our air compressor and
a jig to pull the valve springs so I can change the seals??

Either that or we will just run her for now with that little oil loss.

[Admiral Akbar]

I'd try the pushrods first...

[Thumper Buttercup]

I'd try the pushrods first...

I'm working on getting the push rods shipped fast, it will mean waiting part of a week but we will give it a try.


But in checking over the bike today letting it warm up for the hot compression test she was making
noise that we usually don't hear until she is good and hot and running faster.  Putting the stethoscope
against the push rod tubes there was no tapping at all, in fact we could not get a good reading on the
noise until I came in front onto the exhaust flange then it was very clear the tapping.

[Admiral Akbar]

I'd try the pushrods first...

I'm working on getting the push rods shipped fast, it will mean waiting part of a week but we will give it a try.


But in checking over the bike today letting it warm up for the hot compression test she was making
noise that we usually don't hear until she is good and hot and running faster.  Putting the stethoscope
against the push rod tubes there was no tapping at all, in fact we could not get a good reading on the
noise until I came in front onto the exhaust flange then it was very clear the tapping.

If the pushrod it flexing it can drop the valve on the seat.. The noise will at the valve seat not the pushrod..   It may or may not be the issue.. Sounds like you gone far enough to not turn around.. So you'll throw a bunch of parts at it and hopefully fix the problem..   

[BUBBIE]

I would Concede that SOME of the SE slender's DO flex or Bend when Out on the long threaded side of the pushrod... Mine have not done this... Long ago I did have a set that did...

Recently on HTT there have been talk about them Not being straight...

Never thought about the noise of the Valve Hitting Down from the flexing pushrod...

Thanks Max...

signed....BUBBIE

[Thumper Buttercup]

I'm holding off on the tear down until I have the pushrods, then I'm only going
to install the front cylinder set and do the test.

I was looking around for a good set of take offs heads that have bee ported, but with the newer heads would
my HPI intake work with just the new intake flanges???

I would really like a quick turn around to try and keep what ever riding season we have here going, we've only
got three day rides in this year and that is not helping my disposition on this bike.

[Thumper Buttercup]

Ok,

We had a new set of S&S quick install push rods, a lot thicker than the SE pushrods.
So these are 32 tpi we set them 4 turns 2 flats for .135 depth, we only changed the
front push rods.

Started her up and the noise was there but as the bike warmed up the noise got louder,
took the stethoscope and again checked over the whole engine to find the noise is coming
from the front exhaust flange the same as the SE pushrods.

So could these be flexing also??  I guess we will pull the front head and go from there.

[Admiral Akbar]

Pull the pipe and look at the valve seat through the port..

[Thumper Buttercup]

Sounds like a plan, got to pull it anyway, I'll start there, maybe
we can see what is going on.

OK we are going to back off and wait for the Smith Bro's push rods,
the S&S quickies are 1/4" adjuster and 7/16 nuts where the SE's
are 5/16" adjuster and 1/2" nuts.

If we are flexing with the 5/16" then we are going to flex with a 1/4".

[rageglide]

Smith Bros will only have about 1/2-3/4" of exposed thread.  The nuts are 7/16, not 1/2.  Unless you are getting something different than my SB's.

Max, what do you expect to see looking in the ex port?  Evidence of the seat moving? 

[Thumper Buttercup]

Smith Bros will only have about 1/2-3/4" of exposed thread.  The nuts are 7/16, not 1/2.  Unless you are getting something different than my SB's.

Max, what do you expect to see looking in the ex port?  Evidence of the seat moving?

What I was trying to express that the SE pushrods threaded section is a 5/16" thick section, and the
S&S quickies I tried tonight had a 1/4" thick section, if the 5/16" was flexing I am thinking the S&S
quickies with the 1/4" (thinner threaded section on the bottom) will probably flex more than the SE's.

The SB's we have comming are the set that Garfields Garage sells.

[rageglide]

My SB's have 5/16 adjusters.  Curious what Garfield is selling didn't know there was a larger option.

[Thumper Buttercup]

My SB's have 5/16 adjusters.  Curious what Garfield is selling didn't know there was a larger option.

I have not seen the SB's that I am getting, they will be what you have, I was talking of the test
we did today with the S&S quick install push rods seeing if we still have the tick in the engine (we did),
and hopefully we are still getting some flex and that that still is the problem.

Waiting for the SB's to show up and we will test again, hopefully it will fix this or then we will
tear into this.