big bore shovel cases

[ronn]

who makes a set of big bore shovel cases, from what i have read 3 11/16 is the biggest bore you can go with the stock bolt patten.

[hd76fxlr]

That'll get you 113 inches...How big you looking for?Charlie

[ronn]

130ish

[ricochet]

I know S & S and STD will make cases up for whatever size you want and Delkron probably too but it'll involve bigger base stud pattern.  Is Ultima offering big bore Shovel cases yet?  Each company offers that as special order.  Special order is not much more than regular prices on new cases from them.  Will be more than you might find elsewhere like e-bay though.

ricochet

[stroker800]

  The only shovel to get that big was a John Harmon motor,,,I had a stock 120 couple yrs ago..You might be able to see what Axtell has for cyls..As its possible to get an Evo big bore case and use shovel studs and cyls,,but gonna have some head issues.
Dave

[randallwhitman]

Odds are, that when you go over 3 13/16, you'll have more deck height, which won't fit in a stock frame.

[ronn]

modifiying the frame is not an issue, we have the tools and the technologie

[Kevin]

We may need a new hack saw blade........

[ricochet]

Yup. My alternator/generator cases are STD panhead right case to a shovel or later left case with Timkens and plus .500 on the deck height.  Hyperformance made the cylinders requiring a a 1.775 square expanded cylinder base bolt pattern.  I think the hole in the case is 4.26".  Very thin gasket surface on the cam side.  The heads are also STD and made up with 4" spread bolt pattern.  I'm finding I do have to get the hacksaw out to stuff it into the frame and it's an aftermarket frame.  I also have interference at the generator area of the cases to the single downtube in this DNA frame.  I just had to have that slabside!   I'm thinking through the options now.  Considering just dropping the engine and tranny mounts down and back rather than cutting into the frame at all.  I have to mock up the primary parts to check on that side.  I've got plenty of room behind the tranny.

ricochet

[Kevin]

Rico, sounds like you have your work cut out for you. Keep us posted!

[Jusbo48]

Not a guru here but if you lower the mounts wouldnt that make the driveline lineup out of whack causing major headaches?.

[ricochet]

Not if you move them as a unit so they retain their relationship to one another.  The tranny plate and rear engine mount are together so it makes it easier to do it. It's a matter of lowering that first then the front mount.  The whole grouping has to be kept in line and perpendicular to the rear axle.  I have to fit everything back there and will have to space the wheel assembly appropriately.  It's almost better to work backwards from the wheel forward mocking up the whole driveline.  This frame will fit a 250 tire and I'm using 200 so I could even shift things right if I wanted.  All this means also making a custom top motor mount and I would have probably had to do that anyhow since I'm stuffing a pan into a frame designed for an EVO softail.

ricochet

[76shuvlinoff]

Somewhere along the way I recall seeing a mod to raise the tranny an inch to get the crankshaft, the transmission main shaft, and the rear axle in better alignment.  I don't know if there was a real benefit or not but lowering the motor without lowering the tranny should bring about nearly same results...

[Ultrashovel]

Odds are, that when you go over 3 13/16, you'll have more deck height, which won't fit in a stock frame.

I was just thinking that. There's really not nuch room to lift the cylinders up any further in a four speed frame. Some people will take a hammer to them. That's one reason that good frames are getting scarce.

[randallwhitman]

The reason the deck height is higher, is because you begin to run out of case between the jugs.  With a bore of 3 13/16, you get a sliver of case between the jugs that is slightly larger than a pencil lead.  Got 'em.

[Ultrashovel]

The reason the deck height is higher, is because you begin to run out of case between the jugs.  With a bore of 3 13/16, you get a sliver of case between the jugs that is slightly larger than a pencil lead.  Got 'em.

Correct. Also, if the stroke is increased a lot, the cylinders need to go up to keep the pistons at a decent length.

[ricochet]

I measured up the cylinders last night and find that they're 5.550 tall versus stock of 5.330 so between that and the .500 increase in the cylinder base deck height that's almost 3/4 of an inch taller.  Considering no base or head gaskets it's really about 11/16 ths or so overall assembled.  On moving the motor and tranny mounts I think getting the driveline between the tranny and rear axle on the same plane horizontally as the engine to tranny is less important since it's a rigid frame.  Vertically and perpendicularly is critical.

ricochet

[ronn]

this may sound like a dumb question to you some of you guys but if the only thing connecting the engine to the tranny and it is a belt switch spins around what difference does it make if the engine is higher or lower than the tranny as long as the distance from the tranny is correct and belt alignment is correct, it should spin the tranny the same.

[ricochet]

That's what I mean except from the tranny to the rear axle.  It may make a difference on a frame with suspension.  Something to do with the arc of the suspension travel but not on a rigid.  But engine to tranny relationship must be maintained as if it were one unit because of the rigid primary unless you start changing mounting holes, run without a primary or some such.  On a older 4 speed with tin primary it's less important.  AFAIK

ricochet

[Ultrashovel]

I don't see how you could find another 11/16" of room in a four-speed frame. Maybe in an FXR or FLT frame but not a four-speed. Then you get into the area f having to cut and modify an original piece. That's not something I would do.

It would be best to get something like a Paughco frame. By the way, Paughco is a great company. I bought a used Harley sidecar form Ron Paugh back around 1995 or so and he took me through the factory on a guided tour. They make all of their items right there in the plant at Carson City. They may import some things I don't know about but when I was there, they were building exhausts, frames, forks and you name it right there. If I were going to build another bike, I'd sure get one of their frames.

[randallwhitman]

this may sound like a dumb question to you some of you guys but if the only thing connecting the engine to the tranny and it is a belt switch spins around what difference does it make if the engine is higher or lower than the tranny as long as the distance from the tranny is correct and belt alignment is correct, it should spin the tranny the same.

Theoretically, if you take a straight edge from the engine pulley to the axle, the transmission mainshaft will be along that line.  What happens in most frames, is that the tranny mainshaft is considerably BELOW that line between the engine and axle.  So what is going on is that the driveline is trying to pull the transmission up, off its mounting plate.  The closer that you can get everything to line up, the better.