spoking snafu

[LilBill]

i'm having a hard time spoking up a wheel and it has me scratching my head (which is putting my little remaining hair in jeopardy). the parts involved are a 77 oem flh dual flange steel hub, an oem 62 panhead 16" rim and aftermarket chrome spokes. my problem is that the only way i can get all 40 spokes to fit properly puts the outer spokes going in opposite directions. i checked the spoke lengths against some oem take offs and they were spot on so it's not the spokes. also i've successfully laced many many similar wheels and never ran into this. am i just not holding my mouth right or what ? btw, i even got out the service manuals for pans and shovels and they both call for the outer spokes to go in the same direction ??

[Lew]

I know next to nothing about lacing wheels...but I thought there was a difference in lacing of late and early hubs and rims.  Could it be the late hub to early rim??  Curious to know the scoop on this myself!

Lew

[LilBill]

as far as i know all the steel hubs (star,universal and dual flange) lace the same as do the drop center rims. that's why this is screwing with my head so much

[pappyfreebird]

im with lew,,but wanna see the answer..good luck lilbill

[LilBill]

well, i figured it out but i could use some feedback from some other shovel owners. after fighting this wheel and relacing it a half dozen times i finally went out to the shed and dug out a dual flange wheel that was all original to check the pattern. i'll be damned if it wasn't just like i had been lacing the other wheel, i.e. the outers ran opposite from each other, not in the same direction as stated in BOTH my panhead AND shovelhead manual ?? i had been looking at my other 16"s mounted on my other bikes (two star hubs and two universal hubs) and they were laced like the book said but the dual flange was all different.
stock pattern on the dual flange (steel hub) 16" was : facing the air stem side, inners clockwise/outers counter clockwise. : facing the brake side, inners counter clockwise/outers clockwise.

so apparently a dual flange hub laces with the outer spokes going in opposite directions. can somebody double check me on this ?

[Sonny Munns]

It shouldn't matter as far as I know. I've laced dual flange and star hubs to 16 and 21 inch rims using the HD cross 4 pattern that they show in knuckle and pan manuals. Just make sure each spoke crosses 4 spokes.

[LilBill]

if it doesn't matter then why do both factory manuals (pan and shovel) specify exactly the same lacing procedure and even close the section with "NOTE - Outer spokes on both sides point in same direction".

[CraigArizona85248]

All panhead wheels and early shovel wheels laced the way your manual says (outer spokes on both sides going the same direction).  Some time in the 70's they switched so that the outside spokes on both sides went in opposite directions.  I've read that this was done to make assembling of the wheels at the factory go faster.  But it also required a slight changed to the way the hubs were drilled.  Your late 70's hub needs to be laced using the pattern where the outer spokes on both sides go in opposite directions.  If you had a starhub or a mid-starhub, you would use the old lacing pattern that is described in your manuals.

-Craig

[LilBill]

see, that's what was throwing me. i have star and mid star hubs on my bikes and they are as you say. i assume it changed in '73 with the first disc brake dual flange hubs. funny the manual doesn't make note of it though as it covers post 73 models too.

[easyricer]

Man I've laced alot of wheels and as far as I'm concerned if it all lines up between the hub and the rim, DO IT! On a Harley the only two things you gotta make sure of is that you cross the spokes and that each spoke crosses 40 others. (cross 4 pattern) Rice grinders are quite a bit different. Some have 40, 64 and even 72 spokes. On them you gotta play with it sometimes because you can't always line everything up on the first try.
On one of my old project bikes I have a -40 part numbers rim on a -84 part number hub. on the back and a set of -84 hub and rim on the front. both used the same spoke sets and it worked out fine.
EASY

[Lew]

Factory manuals....every one I've ever used has had lots of errors.

Lew