1978 1/2 motor questions

[scottk]

  Ok so I've got a 1978.5 FLH anniversary that was a barn find...been sitting for 8+ years. Started tearing down the motor and noticed a few things that didn't look right. before I go any farther I'm not a expert on all things Harley, I did do a rebuild on a 55/66 (generator bottom) shovel 20+ years ago but all the head work I sent out....any hoo when I got the heads and rocker boxes off there were no valve guide seals on any of the guides. 2nd when I took off the cylinders the gasket was covering the oil port holes...Normal?? 3rd it looks as if the seal on the sprocket side of the engine is in backwards...now I'm small engine Mechanic on a golf course and have never seen a motor seal flat side in. I can post some pictures for ya'll to see if I can figure out how .... any input would be appreciated.  oh forgot to mention that when I cracked her open I noticed that there were .010 over pistons in it so I know its been wrenched on before.

[JW113]

No valve guide seals is not good. However when I pulled the heads on my bike, all of them were popped off the valve guides. It basically means more oil consumption.

I think the oil port holes are in the side of the cylinders, near the bottom. Not in the crankcase/cylinder interface.

Lots of controversy on the sprocket shaft seal. Some say flat side in, some say flat side out. And some say if it is the kind with a spring (which I think they all are these days), it makes no difference either way. The reason it would be flat side in so's to make it harder for the engine to suck oil into the crankcase from the primary. And who cares if engine oil gets blown out into the primary, stock set up has it being pumped in there anyway. I have a belt drive, so have the seal with flat side out to keep engine oil out of the primary. It works. Sort of...

What are your plans for the bike? And how about some pictures?

-JW

[scottk]

JW Thanks that answers a few questions ...just ordered valve seals...this bike also has a belt primary so I will be putting the new engine seal in flat side out. My plans for the bike is just get it running and road worthy for now.

[Ohio HD]

If it was a 74 inch motor, it probably didn't have seals from the factory. If it's an 80 inch, maybe it did. Did you measure the valve guide before ordering seals? OEM vs. after market guides vary a lot in OD, and you said it's been worked on.

[scottk]

Yea i did measure look like OEM valve guides looks like the heads haven't been worked on and the Harley service manual I have does not show valve guide seals for that year, but the 79 does

[Ohio HD]

Then you may need to change the lower spring seats. That few years of the Shovel were kinda goofy.

[Racepres]

If valve guide seals on a Shovel motor were a Necessity...I think I ,Might have them...
Mine works just fine without them...

[tmwmoose]

The factory started installing valve guide seals in 1981,the only time HD installed a crank seal flat side out on shovels was with the 80-81 Sturgis with belt primary .All primary chain shovels had the seals installed lip side out

[scottk]

Sweet. Thanks for all the info guys.  This site is great, keep ya all posted on the progress.

[fzee]

The tranny is where you will be dealing with issues!  Harley made changes from 1978 and 1979.  The 78 1/2 has different counter shafts and the main drive gear bearings.  STD will only make a custom case per request for that year and required me to send the old case to duplicate it!

The tranny works great but just has odd innards.  Good luck!

[Racepres]

The tranny is where you will be dealing with issues!  Harley made changes from 1978 and 1979.  The 78 1/2 has different counter shafts and the main drive gear bearings.  STD will only make a custom case per request for that year and required me to send the old case to duplicate it!

The tranny works great but just has odd innards.  Good luck!

Can't remember ever dealing with that one...Better put that in the ole Memory Bank.

[scottk]

Well here she is off the lift...Thanks for all the help guys...runs pretty good,needs a little fine tuning.

[westcomb]

I leave valve seals out to help run bigger cams .......... also I have seen more broken valve seals on a shovel than I like so one less thing to take the motor out when a metal seal fails!

Sprocket side seal is often run backwards in a belt drive motor to keep oil away from the dry belt! ........ works just fine like that also if there is a seal fail the spring will not find its way into the lower end bearings! 

Lower oil drains were not used in the cases ........... when doing a stroker build one must add holes in the cases! so sometimes there needed ......... no idea why there is holes in the gaskets and not in the cases ......... I'm sure there is a reason but I have not see it just yet?

[scottk]

Westcomb, Thanks good info !! I did leave the valve guide seals off, Seems fine. I put the seal in flat side out to keep oil out of primary as it is a belt drive, and the oil ports were in the cases but not in the cylinder or the gasket so just put back together the way I found it.

[tmwmoose]

I leave valve seals out to help run bigger cams .......... also I have seen more broken valve seals on a shovel than I like so one less thing to take the motor out when a metal seal fails!

Sprocket side seal is often run backwards in a belt drive motor to keep oil away from the dry belt! ........ works just fine like that also if there is a seal fail the spring will not find its way into the lower end bearings! 

Lower oil drains were not used in the cases ........... when doing a stroker build one must add holes in the cases! so sometimes there needed ......... no idea why there is holes in the gaskets and not in the cases ......... I'm sure there is a reason but I have not see it just yet?

We were told in factory school to use a little green loctite on the guide to glue the seal in place works pretty good don't think it was done on the assembly line there is also the new viton seals available for the shovel as well . AS far as cams most guys run stock to mild bolt in so seal height can be adjusted simply if needed I did run a 550 in my last shovel which is considered big and had no problem adjusting the installed height of the seal for clearance
With valve seals today's pistons and rings electronic ignitions and power glide hydraulic lifters my last shovels were no noise no maintenance motors more than I can say for my twin cam but as usual most of my problems are self inflicted

[76shuvlinoff]

Not that it's any of my business but it appears you have a fuel filter below the petcock? Might not ever be an issue but they're notorious for vapor lock. An in-tank screen and good fuel line, (maybe a piece of something around it for insulation) should be all you need.

Mark

[Racepres]

Not that it's any of my business but it appears you have a fuel filter below the petcock? Might not ever be an issue but they're notorious for vapor lock. An in-tank screen and good fuel line, (maybe a piece of something around it for insulation) should be all you need.

Mark

+1 good eye
I will Not use an inline filter...had too many bad experiences, and zero good ones!

[1FSTRK]

Glad it all turned out good.
Looks great in the pictures.
One question I have is how did you determine it was a 1978 1/2?
I know guys that had both the FLH and the XLH anniversary editions and they were both 1978 models

[scottk]

Yea I don't much care for the in-line fuel filter either but as of now I don't have a screen in the tank...so that was just a quick way to keep crap out of the carb...cleaned the tanks but ya know you can never get all the crap out of there....I'm going today to a huge swap meet and bike show in Nashville and have got a nice list of stuff that it needs....as far as determining the year as far as I can tell the way its set up and everything in the service manual says its a early 78.5 , this bike when I was going through it had all the indications of the 1978 1/2 and earlier according to the service manual...That's the first thing I did was found a original manual for it....just found a set of original mufflers for it too, there going on soon those drag pipes gotta go....It sure is a conversation piece when I pull up some where..lol

[tmwmoose]

Late 78's came with a prestolite electronic ignition similar to a Dyna s but most failed sooner or later and were replaced with points.

[Racepres]

Late 78's came with a prestolite electronic ignition similar to a Dyna s but most failed sooner or later and were replaced with points.

Yet I have one that is still going strong! The real problem with that ignition is the air-gap...most got set-up incorrectly, or got out of wack...A "by the book" adjustment generally brought them back to life. The Biggest problem with that ignition was that most of the folks that bought a new bike then, had already owned a Harley previously...and they did Not Trust the newfangled device...Many were pulled when new and deposited as Suspect, cause you couldn't "see em work" like good ole reliable Points...I witnessed it many times, tho, at the time I couldn't afford a New Harley...I of course had "good ole reliable Points"!!!