103 to 110 HD bolt on kit damaged bores and pistons

[tmwmoose]

The last bore job on my Axtel cylinders before I retired the motor had a short life and you could see horizontal lines similar to whats happening here but not as pronounced and on mine it was sorta all over the bore . But when the cylinders were washed and prepped for the install the lines were not visible at all just the hone marks . I would give the benefit of the doubt to the tech

[Admiral Akbar]

The last bore job on my Axtel cylinders before I retired the motor had a short life and you could see horizontal lines similar to whats happening here but not as pronounced and on mine it was sorta all over the bore . But when the cylinders were washed and prepped for the install the lines were not visible at all just the hone marks . I would give the benefit of the doubt to the tech

So who bored the cylinders?

[tmwmoose]

The last bore job on my Axtel cylinders before I retired the motor had a short life and you could see horizontal lines similar to whats happening here but not as pronounced and on mine it was sorta all over the bore . But when the cylinders were washed and prepped for the install the lines were not visible at all just the hone marks . I would give the benefit of the doubt to the tech

So who bored the cylinders?

A place in Iowa that I decided not to do biz with anymore

[Propflux01]

Looks to me like just a too thin cylinder VS the heat generated by it. I used to see this type of wear in VW engines that used the "slip-in" 88MM piston/cyl kit.

[N-gin]

If you look close you can see the same lines where the piston/rings didn't make contact.

I saw this as well

[98fxstc]

I would be interested to see what they measure up like with torque plates on.By the look of them very poor quality control .

Which torque plates ?
The special MOCO ones ?

  Don't need to be special.. They'll fit a set of Jim's TC plates..

MY original reply was 'tongue in cheek'

special torque plates HD-48627-A
There has been a fair bit of discussion about out of round cylinders for the 117 kits on the CVO site

Thought you may have been aware of it Max
You had a thread on torque plates recently

http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=106379.0
see reply #45 , reply #75

[Admiral Akbar]

I would be interested to see what they measure up like with torque plates on.By the look of them very poor quality control .

Which torque plates ?
The special MOCO ones ?

  Don't need to be special.. They'll fit a set of Jim's TC plates..

MY original reply was 'tongue in cheek'

special torque plates HD-48627-A
There has been a fair bit of discussion about out of round cylinders for the 117 kits on the CVO site

Thought you may have been aware of it Max
You had a thread on torque plates recently

http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=106379.0
see reply #45 , reply #75

A 117 will need special plates as the bore is 4 1/8..  Don't go over to the CVO forum.. Only took me about 3-4 posts to get permanently banned from that place..   

[1FSTRK]

They probably could tell you do not have a CVO, they can spot a poser a mile away.

[Bike31]

The real jury for these kits will be the builders that might use them...some populate the CVO Forum. Now to see what HD has to say about the source of damage.

[rockytop117]

I would be interested to see what they measure up like with torque plates on.By the look of them very poor quality control .

Which torque plates ?
The special MOCO ones ?

  Don't need to be special.. They'll fit a set of Jim's TC plates..

MY original reply was 'tongue in cheek'

special torque plates HD-48627-A
There has been a fair bit of discussion about out of round cylinders for the 117 kits on the CVO site

Thought you may have been aware of it Max
You had a thread on torque plates recently

http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=106379.0
see reply #45 , reply #75

A 117 will need special plates as the bore is 4 1/8..  Don't go over to the CVO forum.. Only took me about 3-4 posts to get permanently banned from that place.. 

Now that's funny! I had to create another account & everybody's dyno sheets are lies...lol

[djl]

Back in January I posted some info I had picked up on another forum wherein an independent tech had measured piston to cylinder clearance in two 110 bolt on kits and found them to measure .0004". Both were sent back to HD. The poster was just asking if any one else had experience similar conditions but the post was pretty much ignored. The poster was accused of being a "drama queen", etc.

I was just wondering if Bike31's problem could be related? Although it would seem that at that fit; the problem would have surfaced immediately rather than 1000 miles in.

http://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,88492.msg1010010.html#msg1010010

[Don D]

Ok so these cylinders are defective.
The tech missed a visual inspection, likely.
Others have detailed the forensics well already.
The one serious issue I see is the MOCO warranty on parts.
If those were S&S they would stand up and help. Won't happen on these and if it does the dealer will be eating it, assuming they did the install. If the parts came over the parts counter there would be no replacements.
We have no data to call this issue cronic still not good.

Don, if the piston fit was .0004 they would not slide in freely, I doubt it.

[04 SE Deuce]

I'm starting to see the benefit of these "bolt on" kits....they bolt on and off easily.

[djl]

Don, if the piston fit was .0004 they would not slide in freely, I doubt it.

The guy that posted did say that the piston "barely fell through the cylinder".  In the case of the OP I am thinking a ringed piston would be difficult to install at .0004 and, if installed, would present a problem immediately.  BTW, my heads are boxed up but I may be looking at shoulder surgery.  I see the doc at the end of this month and see what x-ray and MRI shows up.

[Matt C]

Looks to me like just a too thin cylinder VS the heat generated by it. I used to see this type of wear in VW engines that used the "slip-in" 88MM piston/cyl kit.

I tend to agree with the thin cylinder theory. But you and I are in the minority when it comes to paper thin cylinders.
Everyone else loves them 

[rockytop117]

What's the measurement at the spigot on these 110 drop-ins?

[Admiral Akbar]

Don, if the piston fit was .0004 they would not slide in freely, I doubt it.

The guy that posted did say that the piston "barely fell through the cylinder".  In the case of the OP I am thinking a ringed piston would be difficult to install at .0004 and, if installed, would present a problem immediately.  BTW, my heads are boxed up but I may be looking at shoulder surgery.  I see the doc at the end of this month and see what x-ray and MRI shows up.

I thought that 0.0004 would be OK as it's the coating that make the clearance small.. Stuff wears of fast to get the proper running clearance.

[04 SE Deuce]

Looks to me like just a too thin cylinder VS the heat generated by it. I used to see this type of wear in VW engines that used the "slip-in" 88MM piston/cyl kit.

I tend to agree with the thin cylinder theory. But you and I are in the minority when it comes to paper thin cylinders.
Everyone else loves them 

Looks to me like just a too thin cylinder VS the heat generated by it. I used to see this type of wear in VW engines that used the "slip-in" 88MM piston/cyl kit.

I tend to agree with the thin cylinder theory. But you and I are in the minority when it comes to paper thin cylinders.
Everyone else loves them 

Hey now,  I've been in this club from the beginning,  when did I get thrown out?  Makes 3 of us.

[Don D]

The mahle pistons set up at .0013 over the coating. I run them looser at .0017.

[TorQuePimp]

Looks to me like just a too thin cylinder VS the heat generated by it. I used to see this type of wear in VW engines that used the "slip-in" 88MM piston/cyl kit.

I tend to agree with the thin cylinder theory. But you and I are in the minority when it comes to paper thin cylinders.
Everyone else loves them 

Not really a theory.... You aren't alone some just sit back and say nothing

The mahles are great slugs but .0015 on new cylinders is bad news or can be

[rageglide]

Looks to me like just a too thin cylinder VS the heat generated by it. I used to see this type of wear in VW engines that used the "slip-in" 88MM piston/cyl kit.

I tend to agree with the thin cylinder theory. But you and I are in the minority when it comes to paper thin cylinders.
Everyone else loves them 

Not really a theory.... You aren't alone some just sit back and say nothing

The mahles are great slugs but .0015 on new cylinders is bad news or can be

But brand new from factory the oem pistons spec is 1.5 thou.  No?

[TorQuePimp]

  I think so....however they saw a pile of failures

[strokerjlk]

Ok so these cylinders are defective.
The tech missed a visual inspection, likely.
Others have detailed the forensics well already.
The one serious issue I see is the MOCO warranty on parts.
If those were S&S they would stand up and help. Won't happen on these and if it does the dealer will be eating it, assuming they did the install. If the parts came over the parts counter there would be no replacements.
We have no data to call this issue cronic still not good.

Don, if the piston fit was .0004 they would not slide in freely, I doubt it.

What makes you think they wont be warrantied ?
The failure rate is still mimimual when you compare defects per thousand .( 6 sigma ppm)
MOCO has probably already sold more of these cylindes this year, than any other manufacture will all year .

[HD/Wrench]

 

[Don D]

No concern to me, I won't buy them and be part af the stats pool.