disappering oil

[garyajaz]

rode the beastie some more other day. its 3 qt system with no oil filter.
I change the Valvoline R 60 wt often.
like when it gets 1/2 qt low I just change it instead of adding.
I also get bout 25 mpg. cam overlap and such.
so I almost empty gas tank.  that would be 40 miles.
yeah, not much of a distance bike...lol
look in oil tank and its one quart low...huh?
just changed it 40 miles ago.
checked plugs. they usually a bit oil wet cause loose forged pistons and bronze guides set loose.
and they were actually tan. guessing cause of freeway speeds. look good.
it has a breather drop or 7 when parked.  but not a quart.
quick look over bike shows no leaks.
looked at exhaust. bike was not smoking, puffing a bit at low rpm's. bout normal.
end of pipes should be black and dripping oil if burned a quart in a half hour.
nope,,,

took a break for a few days.
today will drain primary and see if it has 2 quarts instead of one.
that vent valve from crank case to primary.
I hoping that's it.  if not. hummm..  also oil very dirty when drained.  but that's sorta normal with blowby and no filter (stock set up on XLCH)

[Panzer]

I'll bet you get more then a quart out when you drain it.

[garyajaz]

I wish, just now drained and put in qt bottles.
2 qts engine.  so one qt low. drained sump maybe 4 oz
drained tranny. also  was new 40 miles ago.
very black and dirty. just like  eng oil. it is blowing in there and contaminating.
drained not quite a quart out of tranny, maybe 5 oz shy of qt.
crawling under and around no oil splash on bike. not blowing out under pressure of running. 

[garyajaz]

so washed street bikes just now.
looked over iron real well. no leaks, blow out traces, nada.
did you stop by and drain some just to mess with me?
dog says no one stopped by.








.

[Panzer]

What's the air cleaner look like, I know it can't hold a quart of oil........just asking and scretching my head too.
I'm thinking hard on this one............stand by. 

[garyajaz]

air cleaner all foam and green.
no spit out carb.
everything is empty now. as soon as knee heals a bit will refill and start over.  maybe ride it 20 miles and check over.
my previous oil change was also a qt low and very dirty. did not note mileage other than it was not 500 miles..
soon it will go back in storage trailer for the summer.
I not kicking anything out this way june-aug.....
would like to find problem though. maybe next week.

[Panzer]

Keep us updated.......still thinking. 

[Panzer]

What year and model?

[harley_cruiser]

If your oil is that dirty from that few a miles I would say it is piston ring blow by.
I would do a compression test.
How is it vented?

[Wicked]

This is gary's "play" bike. Not a normal motor at all!!  He'll find it and let us know....I hope!

[Panzer]

This is gary's "play" bike. Not a normal motor at all!!  He'll find it and let us know....I hope!

Mmmmm, not normal you say?
I'd like to know compression too, but to miss a quart of oil + 

[garyajaz]

well, I have till Friday to get out there and run it again.
after that HELL is officially here.
will be 107 and I not kicking anything out in 107.

I bought it new in 1974. it is a XLCH.
somewhat modified over the years.

engine is vented everywhere and much.
both rocker covers, primary enlarged to maybe 10 times the tiny oil fill breather, and one in back installed inner primary.
3/8 " breather out top back of tranny.
standard cam side breather and another installed to rear top of case.
scavenge pump is timed to stroker wheels, all sorta breathing..

compression?  ah, adequate.
without releases pushed in I can stand on kicker and not go down.

it has mucho blowby though. hence the very dirty tranny oil through case valve and dirty  eng/oil tank oils.
loose 20 year old forged TRW pistons
(80 over so no more bore)
pistons were loose when installed cause was drag racing on alky.  (bike, not me)
I did re ring it , maybe 5000 miles ago.
heads fresh, new valves, guides .loosened up F ex guide clearance to that valve.
it puffs on start up but when expanded goes away.

also riding  I tend to rumble it around town 20 miles, park it, fill up gas.
never really getting up to proper temps.
change fouled plugs, ride it 10-20 to some shop week end thing or another .
change plugs and restart for ride home.  last week I freeway 35 miles. plugs finally cleaned , tan.

I have lots of cam overlap and really should not ride it like I do.
but being a toy its acceptable to me.
last ride did take off the 23 front drive sprocket and put a stock 21 back on.
just to keep revs up a little. 

I figuring I vapor, burning, leaking and venting maybe 10 ounces in 50 miles.
eh, no big deal.  if I had refuel stops would get better on highway speeds and higher RPM  (bike set up for 7500)....

but a quart in 40 miles??

when washed bike no trace lines. nothing on pant leg...
area around breathers wetish,  all vents venting.
  dumping that pressure from blowby,
but nothing on frame or rear wheel.

noticed my outside return  oiliers are seeping some.
my 30 year old silver solder leaking around the spigots I put in. maybe it was   last sand blast job when I put in new valves and SBC did the seats.
everything seals there, checked valves without springs with finger pressure and rub alcohol.

[Panzer]

Just what are you trying to accomplish doing all that to the engine?
Blowby on rings, loose pistons, .080 over bored, loose guides but swells up.........yea gads man.
It's now wonder you loose oil.............I'm outta here and good luck
Poor engine. 

[Hossamania]

Don't listen to Panzer. I'm proud of you for doing whatever it takes to keep it running. Poor thing has lived a hard life.
How do the pipes look-sooty and wet? Maybe it was just a one time thing. Need to put some miles on it and see what happens. Sounds like it is a bit tired and cantankerous. It wants a good long ride.

[garyajaz]

Just what are you trying to accomplish doing all that to the engine?

well, it was 30 years ago. I had a nice 72 superglide for a street bike.
this one I got serious bout a thing called drag racing.
hence the large bore/stroke, ported heads, big valves, special springs,
custom cams, belt drive primary. altered frame and suspension, big carb, alky,
everything the guys in the twin cam section doing today.

was a very fun ride. 
I retired and so did it.
  so as not to let it rot I put a license plate on it and rode it on occasion.
it still performs very well and its pull is  fun.

this spring I went through the whole suspension, new tires brakes all that.
laced wheels, reglassed gas tank, new sub frame. new batt and all ignition.
I did work on it some.

then I freshened up heads with new guides and SS valves. SBC did the seats.
last two years I had stuck ex valve in F guide bending other valve.
so this year I wanted 2 tho over the spec for the rowe guides.
it dosent seize.  rejetted compression releases.

only thing really loose is clearance of pistons.
if I had stumbled onto some stroker pistons for this thing I would find some cylinders and bore to fit.

but not this week.  it still runs very well for a light to light bike.
so that's what I am doing.
I don't expect it to go cross country. I change fouled plugs often.
just this time was excessive. I now guessing its like rocker mentioned and all else.
that run, that rpm, it was blowing by and pressurize and leaking and burning.
THAT much oil.  bikes completely drained and cleaned.
will try again.  but its 103 and going to go up. maybe next week when in high 90's


Hoss, pipes look dark after highway run. a little soot from rich fuel...
some gummy, if scrapped, for oil.  but not coated or thick wet or fresh.
it was fun.

[Hossamania]

It does sound like fun. I bet that motor sounds good! Probably a little choppy, which I like.

[garyajaz]

ya know , people tell me I built some radical stuff for the street.
but not really.   (well, that once when I licensed a twin engine race bike)
I just ride 30 miles up the hill to toms barn and...

he now building a blown hemi in another of his frames.

[Hossamania]

I bet that one sounds good too! With some nice blower whine, which I like.....

[JW113]

WOW. That is impressive. Stark raving crazy, but impressive!

Am wandering how long the tread lasts on that skinny front tire trying to make that huge back one turn.


Gary, what are you using for cams in that XLCH?

-JW

[garyajaz]

my whole valve train was from sifton. springs, valves, guides, collars, cams, tapered longer push rods  .
it all matched. the cams were not in catalog.
a semi custom grind for drag racing/road racing with high rpm and good power from 5k to 7.5k
he made a drag cam only with more lift and square ramps, but I also wanted this bike for sustained high speed.

[JW113]

Now how did I already know you were going to say that! A bud of mine Chuck Santana used to know Tom, since he was a bay area guy, and would also get "custom" cams from him. Same deal, serious top end power.

-JW

[garyajaz]

 some friends think I crazy for kick starting this beast to life at 68 years old.
constant tinkering and tuning.
well, its the

SMILE. 

   some just don't get it....we do.....aint it fun?

I still have the letter tom wrote  me after I told him I was gonna turbo it..
lol , I was a dealer/tester for him back in the day.
something-something, hell, just pull my cams and put stock ones back in.
overlap will just blow charge out exhaust...on and on..
oh, you got too much compression. gotta toss that...

well,   just leave it was mentioned. 
you going faster than the brakes will stop and you know how to ride...
mumble mumble delited...

[JW113]

Gary, I have to say you are da man. No, let me rephrase that: DA MAN!!!!! With balls the size of bowling balls. Me little boy, with balls like BBs.

You got 10 years on me, and you're still out there dickering around with that persnikity over the top hot rod stuff, trying to keep it going and tuned to it's best, AND figuring out ways to push it even further over the top....

What can be said? You kick ass. I suck.

I used to do that stuff, not nearly in your league, but in the little league. Then I got tired of heartbreak after heartbreak, and switched gears to doing close to stock(ish) restorations on old iron, with a big emphasis on rideability. One kick to start, lots of road manners, and soft cushy comfort. Yea, I suck.

My hat's off to you, my friend. YOU DA MAN!!!! I salute thee!

  <klink>

-JW